Titan Temple. Why r2 ignore players needs?

[tsukilucas]

Why Titan Temple is so hard? It's impossible for lower br players to get animate stones. Why you won't lower difficulty of it? So many players complain about this and ask you to change it but you ignore their voices, instead do something useful you make useless poll and pretend that you listen to your players. You give events for useless charge fragments for 100 chests but you can't give animate stone event. Im 19 mil br and i can barealy do 2 levels of temple daily, because there always is few frigga or witch. Disable healing effects or just lower Titan Temple difficulty if you really listen to your players voice.

[miranda_psi]

Why Titan Temple is so hard? It's impossible for lower br players to get animate stones. Why you won't lower difficulty of it? So many players complain about this and ask you to change it but you ignore their voices, instead do something useful you make useless poll and pretend that you listen to your players. You give events for useless charge fragments for 100 chests but you can't give animate stone event. Im 19 mil br and i can barealy do 2 levels of temple daily, because there always is few frigga or witch. Disable healing effects or just lower Titan Temple difficulty if you really listen to your players voice.

TT is not designed for all KH - it's designed for advanced KH players.

If you can't beat TT at 19m br, you need to seriously reconsider your strategy because you are doing something very, very wrong.

[R22289894]

bite me miranda with your comments sayingyou do something wrong.. enough having trouble beating all stages with those WP's and mailfunction reset titan ***

[Meikura001]

Define "advanced"

If you say "strategy", I am going to take you out back (you can use your imagination but I am sure it will involve some duct tape and a wet noodle).

I am going to be a brand new KH soon at close to 6 mil and I expect to face opponents around my BR; not 50+ mil on a poorly designed feature.

[miranda_psi]

Define "advanced"

If you say "strategy", I am going to take you out back (you can use your imagination but I am sure it will involve some duct tape and a wet noodle).

I am going to be a brand new KH soon at close to 6 mil and I expect to face opponents around my BR; not 50+ mil on a poorly designed feature.

When it first came out, it needed 14+m br to beat, so I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone under that br complaining about TT. That was the requirement when it first came out, there is absolutely no reason for that to be lowered to spoon feed lower or newer players. You all get spoon fed pretty much everything else in the game and have access to so much to gain br, there is no excuse for complaining about tt - if you work for it you can gain the required br in a matter of months.

Yes, at 6m br you are going to have absolutely no hope in TT and I don't care. You are simply too weak for it; it's as simple as that. It's the same as being 100k br and trying to do EF - you just aren't ready for it yet. Once you get to !~15m (assuming you're not bloated on br), that's when the strategy part comes in (though lower for archers) ,but before that level of strength, TT issimply just not for you.

[Meikura001]

It's the same as being 100k br and trying to do EF

'cept EF is not 100k. I haven't seen any lowbie lower than probably 400k coming onto CA (after putting the skills into higher HP bonuses). Believe me, I had tried to go below the bar and it's not even possible.

That was the requirement when it first came out, there is absolutely no reason for that to be lowered to spoon feed lower or newer players.

This is why ToK failed miserably. It said level 38 as a minimum to go into. Guess what? If you see a 38, you would expect all the 38's to at least try the easy difficulty. When it first came out, it would probably be just players (no sylphs/euds) battling out until they get to 50 and got sylphs. Right, at 38, who could expect to see some "he-man/she-ra" **** coming at them? So we go and got sylphs on our own (and hit 50) to do a few stages. Then comes Euds and everyone seem to lose their minds (again, at easy difficulty and at 38 entry, who can expect that, right?). So we raced to 70 so we can get the blarney kids to come into the team with us.

Same with this (and now I hear it went into RoG which I stopped because it was going nowhere anyways; 60 glories for 1 mount whip, forget it when I can get 2k off MS, heh heh). It started off with just low folks and now it's all the way up. That is the part you fail to see. You can be happy with your so-called BR because you can roll with them, however, the feature was opened for all the KH, not just a small set to do.

Again, I expect something at 6 mil when I try it out. A stage or two maybe. You make it sound like 15 mil is easy to get which I call the two little words on it... I think you know what they are.

Like you, I do not care for the he-mans or she-ras; I do, however, care for when a feature is made for a certain classification, that it would perform for said classification. Else, they can go eat a duck as it is poorly designed.

[miranda_psi]

'cept EF is not 100k. I haven't seen any lowbie lower than probably 400k coming onto CA (after putting the skills into higher HP bonuses). Believe me, I had tried to go below the bar and it's not even possible.


This is why ToK failed miserably. It said level 38 as a minimum to go into. Guess what? If you see a 38, you would expect all the 38's to at least try the easy difficulty. When it first came out, it would probably be just players (no sylphs/euds) battling out until they get to 50 and got sylphs. Right, at 38, who could expect to see some "he-man/she-ra" **** coming at them? So we go and got sylphs on our own (and hit 50) to do a few stages. Then comes Euds and everyone seem to lose their minds (again, at easy difficulty and at 38 entry, who can expect that, right?). So we raced to 70 so we can get the blarney kids to come into the team with us.

Same with this (and now I hear it went into RoG which I stopped because it was going nowhere anyways; 60 glories for 1 mount whip, forget it when I can get 2k off MS, heh heh). It started off with just low folks and now it's all the way up. That is the part you fail to see. You can be happy with your so-called BR because you can roll with them, however, the feature was opened for all the KH, not just a small set to do.

Again, I expect something at 6 mil when I try it out. A stage or two maybe. You make it sound like 15 mil is easy to get which I call the two little words on it... I think you know what they are.

Like you, I do not care for the he-mans or she-ras; I do, however, care for when a feature is made for a certain classification, that it would perform for said classification. Else, they can go eat a duck as it is poorly designed.

I was taking a guess at the BR - BR has inflated absurdly since I was doing EF, but the point is still the same - just because you met the requirements doesn't mean you are strong enough to beat it.

Even when ToK first came out, it was based on your own server, so for new server, sure, lvl 38s could do it, but on older servers, they had no hope. This was blatantly obvious just from reading the description and the fact it was based on the server's top 16.This then eventually migrated to cluster top 16, including sylphs and eudos... of those changes, honestly, the hardest one to adapt to was the sylphs - dealing with the eudos was trivial in comparison.

As for RoG... now that one is purely strength based. Stage 1 starts off with people lower in strength than you and then expands to people with higher strength than you...and that is trued for everyone except of course those giant 50+m before whom there is no one bigger. As for rewards, why would you even look at mount whips? Everyone who does it does it for star dust for astral elevation.

You can expect whatever you want at 6m, though my prediction is you'll be dead in 1 round... might survive 2 rounds with titan def + guardian, but you're not going to do any significant damage to them. Even at 15m br or so, you will need at least 3 titans to have any hope, though by this stage you should have a few thousand stones sitting around just from the daily events, so you already have a massive advantage over those who were KH pre TT.

[Meikura001]

I was taking a guess at the BR - BR has inflated absurdly since I was doing EF, but the point is still the same - just because you met the requirements doesn't mean you are strong enough to beat it.

Myself, I always use the "Cross Server BR Requirement" as a measuring tool to see if said dungeon is right for me to do on attempt. On a single run, I would add 50% to the current numbers to see if I could do it (sometimes I just solo with no attempt checked in to test the waters). On a team run, it probably be about 5-10% added to that value that each unit has to be in order for a successful run. Trust me, there are a few MPDs I forego until I am developed, mostly equipment wise.

Even when ToK first came out, it was based on your own server, so for new server, sure, lvl 38s could do it, but on older servers, they had no hope. This was blatantly obvious just from reading the description and the fact it was based on the server's top 16.This then eventually migrated to cluster top 16, including sylphs and eudos... of those changes, honestly, the hardest one to adapt to was the sylphs - dealing with the eudos was trivial in comparison.

I was not there when it was "singles" competition in a team setting. I came a few months late when WT first came out, again to test it out and see if it was the right game for me (at the time). When I first attempted ToK as a 38, I didn't know what a sylph was that I start asking people "what are the fairies the players have?" When they told me what they are, I asked where can I get one. I was told at level 50. I got my own fairies and did about 4 levels within the easy stage; fifth was the death of me and my team. I took a break from WT as it was also mundane with nowhere really to go and no development whatsoever. When I came back almost a year later, I dove into a new server with my own solid team and find out that ToK had Euds going. Again, I was able to get to stage 4 of easy at level 70. However, when merged sylphs came to the picture, all went to hell; when cross-platform became commonplace, there was no hope unless someone cashes hard to make it.

As for rewards, why would you even look at mount whips? Everyone who does it does it for star dust for astral elevation.

That's the first thing I saw that kind of discouraged me, LOL. Forgot the other stuff to be honest. This was before I know that I can get up to 3-4 levels of Magic Square (rare days I would max out if I have all green items within as I do each stage). So, basically I just used that as a comparison. When the game is fixed for the performance problems it has, I might revisit RoG.

Even at 15m br or so, you will need at least 3 titans to have any hope, though by this stage you should have a few thousand stones sitting around just from the daily events, so you already have a massive advantage over those who were KH pre TT.

Yeah I do have a lot of "junk" that will help me get a jump on the curve of the KH express (metaphorically speaking), so who knows where that will take me.

[Katjuza]

I was taking a guess at the BR - BR has inflated absurdly since I was doing EF, but the point is still the same - just because you met the requirements doesn't mean you are strong enough to beat it.

Even when ToK first came out, it was based on your own server, so for new server, sure, lvl 38s could do it, but on older servers, they had no hope. This was blatantly obvious just from reading the description and the fact it was based on the server's top 16.This then eventually migrated to cluster top 16, including sylphs and eudos... of those changes, honestly, the hardest one to adapt to was the sylphs - dealing with the eudos was trivial in comparison.

As for RoG... now that one is purely strength based. Stage 1 starts off with people lower in strength than you and then expands to people with higher strength than you...and that is trued for everyone except of course those giant 50+m before whom there is no one bigger. As for rewards, why would you even look at mount whips? Everyone who does it does it for star dust for astral elevation.

You can expect whatever you want at 6m, though my prediction is you'll be dead in 1 round... might survive 2 rounds with titan def + guardian, but you're not going to do any significant damage to them. Even at 15m br or so, you will need at least 3 titans to have any hope, though by this stage you should have a few thousand stones sitting around just from the daily events, so you already have a massive advantage over those who were KH pre TT.

aaw... what I know about this..its totallu depending in what class and what skill set u using..so yes the post starter has right.. even tho im archie self... I do think they should make TT more equel to all classes to clear or atleast make mages AOE skills more powerfull , because mages has most trouble whit TT..this sade..I go back to nailing all 8 free levels whit one shooting as I have done sens TT came in too the game... muah..bb

[MrFancyPants]

When TT first came out, I would occasionally show up as one of the tier 5 opponents, and I still couldn't beat more than the first 3 levels. Anyone starting out shouldn't need to be in or near the top 100 in player BR just to make even slight progress. I wouldn't be surprised if someone at 19mil BR now with only basic titans would find it impossible to beat round 3.

The goalposts in TT are constantly moving, so what you could do 3 months ago at a certain BR may no longer apply for someone new to KH. An event like this is completely inhospitable to new players, and for that reason alone it should be adjusted. Making it less annoying (by making bottom levels easier) would be a nice side benefit for people who can already beat it.

[miranda_psi]

When TT first came out, I would occasionally show up as one of the tier 5 opponents, and I still couldn't beat more than the first 3 levels. Anyone starting out shouldn't need to be in or near the top 100 in player BR just to make even slight progress. I wouldn't be surprised if someone at 19mil BR now with only basic titans would find it impossible to beat round 3.

When TT first came out, I was 12,5m br I think - not even close to the top 100 and at the br I was getting ~3 levels. Once I unlocked the crit titan I moved on to getting 4+ (stage 4/5 would cause problems on occasion) and by the time I was 14m br it was easy and it'/s only gotten even easier as time has progressed. Yes, the minimum level needed to beat it has gone up, but the rate at which you can get br has gone up far more.

As for 19m br.... I showed how trivial T is at that level in an earlier post (and that is in the top cluster as far as I can tell): http://forum.r2games.com/forum/brows...n-temple/page5

That is a few months old now, but that is not even close - I wipe them out before they can sylph and they don't even scratch me. Over the last few months the difficulty has gone up marginally, but at 19m br it will still be trivial to beat it. If you aren't beating it with ease at 19m br, you need to revisit your strategy because you are doing something wrong or have built your character poorly.

The goalposts in TT are constantly moving, so what you could do 3 months ago at a certain BR may no longer apply for someone new to KH. An event like this is completely inhospitable to new players, and for that reason alone it should be adjusted. Making it less annoying (by making bottom levels easier) would be a nice side benefit for people who can already beat it.

Yes they move, but at a much slower rate than you can gain br. Yes, TT is NOT for new players... it's an advanced KH event, not a lvl 1 event - it's meant for once you reach a certain level of strength, not just because you got to KH. There are heaps of events for KHs to use to gain strength, then TT is the next step once you have done those.

[Meikura001]

When TT first came out, I was 12,5m br I think - not even close to the top 100 and at the br I was getting ~3 levels. Once I unlocked the crit titan I moved on to getting 4+ (stage 4/5 would cause problems on occasion) and by the time I was 14m br it was easy and it'/s only gotten even easier as time has progressed. Yes, the minimum level needed to beat it has gone up, but the rate at which you can get br has gone up far more.

You might find it easy, mate, if you kept moving on up in development and try to be ahead of the curve than everyone else. However, what would happen if, say for instance, you stopped moving? Would you be able to do the same number of levels you've been doing before you stopped?

I think that's the real problem. There is no capping point in this event. If there was one, many people will probably make notes on what (BR wise) to shoot for to have a smooth run and to know they made it over the top for such. Might as well call it the "handicapped" arena where it is 1 vs 4 (oh wait we already have something like that: group arena). As long there is no cap and the players that are in the top spots kept moving forward (might be 40-50 mil now, probably 90-100 mil in the future with new content/things), it's only for the Cliffords in the end.

For now, capitalize on it while anyone can before more changes happen to make it yesterday's news.

[Masterpiece..]

Hm let just say that r2 wont fix it the titan temple will be even more disaster how it is now knowing them they wont fix it just make it much worse than now

[Meikura001]

Hm let just say that r2 wont fix it the titan temple will be even more disaster how it is now knowing them they wont fix it just make it much worse than now

That's what happened with ToK. There was no curve or cap and the sprites they used happened to be on the top whatever for the cross platform bit. Top players refused to lay their Freyas/Friggas and Battle Oracle/Sacred Knights to rest. There really was no variety as it is the same 4 you face in each stage, which you're pretty much SOL if you don't have a top team to help you through or having the top player (if residing on your server) to take off their sylph/euds just for the passage.

Before that one will come and try to debate (really, there is nothing to debate about something that is poorly designed and tailored for the spendiest of people to tackle on), I had always gauge the minimal BR needed to perform certain things (it's what I do) when they are designed right. For example, to really pass through normal Spire (all 24 levels), I would rely, on average, on a team that has close to 3 million BR, a level 8 Battle Oracle, green eud equipment, level 4 eud diamonds (matk, hp, pdef, mdef), lvl 5 suntoria and recovery along with level 5 skills for the other three slots (no delphics were used since it does lag to hell that I would not be able to fire one off), and 10 star refinements on both main and eud equipment. For me, I don't do much on HP as far as BR total is concerned (it helps, though) since I am a heavy hitter (focused mostly on PATK when building) and would like to try and one-shot things as fast as I can; so that near 6 mil is on that. Not too long ago, I accidentally helped 3 people get through spire with just one unit. The fun part on that is that I only have 1 module to control (all others were off) so I won't have to lag out. Made it through on normal with him; three people who passed were happy on such, and I was mind blown; data has been recorded to know it can be done.

That's the point I was trying to raise in my previous posts. In fact, if I stopped building up, I know for sure I can come back and complete normal spire without worry. Titan Temple is a different story as you have to keep moving to be ahead of the curve to get a sense of accomplishment; however, what of the ones who are just playing for the first time or play on the new server? What becomes of them where there is no set cap for an event?

Myself, I like to feel accomplished (which is why I don't raid the labs anymore after level 8; what for when I can get the daily event harvest in one go and be done with it; I don't think they give a large amount of Adv. Henna if you go beyond that); I don't like to constantly have to build (even though some MPDs are weekly which is a low blow) just to pass a level if it keeps moving up forward. It took me (without spending and I said "f-it" to some events because of the shenanigans done by the devs/R2 that made me gave up on some of them) a little over a year to get where I am. Titan Temple is an event that you have to keep moving forward if you want to get something out of it, just like ToK. Yes, I can agree there might be some strategy to it, but not when your TT roster consists of top spenders with sylphs/euds/willpowers/titans that will take you ages to get.

[MrFancyPants]

As for 19m br.... I showed how trivial T is at that level in an earlier post (and that is in the top cluster as far as I can tell): http://forum.r2games.com/forum/brows...n-temple/page5

That is a few months old now, but that is not even close - I wipe them out before they can sylph and they don't even scratch me. Over the last few months the difficulty has gone up marginally, but at 19m br it will still be trivial to beat it. If you aren't beating it with ease at 19m br, you need to revisit your strategy because you are doing something wrong or have built your character poorly.

I'm close to 23mil BR now, with all titans, and still at least half the time it's impossible to kill them all even in level 1 until I can sylph up and do an aoe sylph attack (or I suppose if I just waited it out until the damage multiplier allowed me to 1-shot them). The difference between us is probably knight vs. mage, since knights have an exceptionally weak aoe skill. A 19mil BR knight could definitely get stuck flailing against a continuously healing bunch at least for a while. And it's well-known that archers have an easier time due to the huge damage (and rage) advantage of their aoe, so it probably is trivial for almost anyone at 19mil in that case. A mage without a good rage rune might find it a lot harder than you did.

Not having maxed determination astral, or not having a max damnation skill will also make a difference, and those are still things that take significant time to achieve. The range between struggling and often failing to win and beating it easily is actually a lot smaller than you might think. Simply having the crit titan makes a huge difference, and you have to grind TT to get it in the first place.