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Battleground suggestions and tweaks

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  • Battleground suggestions and tweaks

    The majority of players that do battlegrounds seem to fall in one of two schools of thought. There are those players that want battlegrounds to last the entire time and not point out early thus maximizing the time that they have to accumulate honor. Several of these players hold the flag to prevent their team from ending the battleground prematurely by hitting the 5000 point threshold. On the other side there are the players that run the flag nonstop to ensure that their team wins thus maximizing the rewards they receive when the battleground ends. These two types of players are often at odds with one another and I have frequently seen arguments happen in current chat as a result of clashing philosophies. In light of this I have a few suggestions.

    1. Remove the 5000 point cap that ends the battleground early. This seems like an outdated mechanism as flag running yields a significant number of points and it is relatively easy to achieve 5000 points if the running is unimpeded. Removing the ability to point a battleground early would stop most players from holding the flag indefinitely to ensure the full 25 minutes for gaining honor. This would allow both teams to run the flags as much as they want and the victor would be declared by the point total at the end of the battleground regardless of how high the scores get.

    The following suggestions would only be applicable if the 5000 point cap were removed.

    2. Reward players that successfully return the enemy flag to their resource officer with a small amount of honor in addition to the points they already get. Personally I wouldn't make the honor reward more than 5 or 10 points but it would give a small incentive to participate in the capture the flag aspect of the game.

    3. Reward players that defeat flag carriers and retrieve their own team's flag with an equally small point and honor reward. Again, this would help to promote the capture the flag aspect for those players that are interested in it.

    4. Allow teams to be able to communicate via party chat as they used to be able to do in previous battlegrounds. This would allow for teammates to speak with each other without the need for PMs or the use of current chat.

    I can only assume that when the dev team created this new battleground they wanted players to view the capture the flag theme as a new strategic element where teams would work together to achieve victory. I feel that implementing the above suggestions would assist in this AND alleviate the tensions that currently plague battlegrounds between players that want to run the flag and those that want to hold the flags so battlegrounds last the full time for honor gain.

    Like these or hate these I would love to hear from the rest of the community.

  • #2
    Some people would say dryads have contributed to the death of the battleground. I see you don't mention dryads. Does that mean you don't agree with that sentiment, and believe just fixing how the points and flag function would entice people to return?
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    • #3
      I do agree with that actually. I for one believe that dryads have gotten wildly out of control. Many players spend the entire battleground running from one npc to the next, unable to be hit due to "protection" that appears to last for varying lengths of time, building dryads until their character is ready to nuke someone. I think the biggest problem is that the non-team specific goblins along the center pathways gives level 8 dryads for each one killed (40% increase). In previous versions of battleground no npcs gave that large of a boost. Perhaps this needs to be toned back to the level it used to be in older battlegrounds (level 4 instead of level 8 I think?).

      I originally left dryads out of my post as I figured it was best to try and tackle one issue at a time. I've seen a lot of hostility lately between flag runners and flag holders and I thought alleviating some tension and adding options to gain some small amounts of honor beyond what we already get would at least be a step in the right direction in terms of improving battlegrounds. If we can solve multiple issues at one time though I'd be all for it.

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      • #4
        Until BGs are somewhat matched (all the puppies in one bowl, all the Cliffords in another), I don't think many players are going to return (especially this one). Back then, BGs were matched to nearly (and close to) same BR of the entrants. This has made it more fluid and gives more incentive for people to gun down their opponents for revenge and bragging rights.

        Now, it's just pure junk in my opinion as that aspect is gone.
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        • #5
          Suggestions BG:
          1) Joining BG won't lose honor (vip or non vip), Many just away from keyboard (afk) or for attendance only because of that few players are active playing. We join BG to gain honor, not to lose.
          2) Getting 3K honor in BG will earn medallion x5 while getting 6K max honor will earn medallion x10. Players need millions of honor to level up medallion.
          3) Can add BG rewards in exchange for medallion and double honor scroll.
          4) If a player got killed, should increase buff by level 8 (includes attack, defense, hp).

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          • #6
            Immilyn It might be a good idea to get everything gathered at one time and forward it as one proposal.
            The mobs are the way they are to incentivize participation by lower BR players, because they can build up dryads and earn some honor, which was a major complaint from the old BG. Lowering the effects from mobs could help balance that out a bit. Looking at beehappythree's 4th point, perhaps swap what being killed gives with what mobs give?

            Meikura001 You are speaking of the days when people use to level camp and be overpowered for their group, only with defined brackets you didn't stand a chance when you had a camper as an opponent, because the stronger people were all in other brackets. We aren't going to see 80/CA/KH brackets. That will just encourage level camping again, and we'd be right back to where we started years ago, with people not participating because of those overpowered campers.

            beehappythree There needs to be a reason for people to have VIP. I think the reduction of honor loss is one of the last useful benefits in the late game. The devs aren't going to go for removing that. They also aren't going to go for giving a ton of honor at once, even if you do need millions to level up the medallion. I've found that even without VIP reducing the loss of honor, I net more honor than I lose even if I win no fights in BG as long as I participate every day, but I do win the occasional fight due to dryads. If more people participated, there would be a larger diversity on the field so overall honor loss would be much lower for everyone. The focus should be on how to get more people to want to participate. At best, maybe we could add in a suggestion to reduce the loss of honor when you die, but we'd need that to be presented in chart form.

            I'm not sure if your third point is asking for rewards that you can exchange your medallions and double honor scrolls for, or if you are asking for medallions and double honor scrolls to be added to an exchange. If it's the former, the devs will take that as you don't need more medallions, and therefore don't need more honor, so they aren't going to understand why you'd need changes to the battleground. And if it's the latter, if the devs are agreeable to giving us more medallions, they will be most likely to only do so in one place, and we're going to be forwarding a separate suggestion that covers medallions. I don't think adding medallions to an exchange would help with battleground participation, since we wouldn't need to participate in pvp events to get honor.
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            • #7
              I think swapping the amount of dryads gained from being killed with what is gained from the goblins would be a fair compromise. Level 8 from a death would mean a bigger boost from losing an actual pvp battle and level 4 from the goblins would help to reduce the gains from dryad farming by 50%.

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              • #8
                Yes, the disparity between the boost for killing a goblin vs. losing a fight is wrong - make losing the bigger factor, and you balance the game a lot better. Doesn't change the fact that no amount of dryads as it currently stands will boost a new player enough to beat anyone but another new player, but the solutions for that never gained any traction.

                The capture the flag aspect really needs to be eliminated as a cause for early ending of the fight. It's just way too easy to speed through the event, and almost no one wants shorter BGs. Strong players have to waste time babysitting the opponent's flag, and trolls can mess with people by running the flag over and over. So many reasons it's a terrible design.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MrFancyPants View Post
                  The capture the flag aspect really needs to be eliminated as a cause for early ending of the fight. It's just way too easy to speed through the event, and almost no one wants shorter BGs. Strong players have to waste time babysitting the opponent's flag, and trolls can mess with people by running the flag over and over. So many reasons it's a terrible design.
                  That's why my first suggestion was to eliminate the 5000 point cap entirely, to prevent battlegrounds from ending early. The suggestions that followed were only to try and improve the capture the flag component and I would only suggest implementing them IF the cap were removed as originally stated.

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                  • #10
                    Getting in late on this discussion, but still think this is worthy to revise, using most comments above.

                    But....

                    VIP seems to be bought in my guild (and, I think, for most on my server who have it) as a time-saver, and all the other problems and issues in the battleground keep it from being a meaningful add here. Get all the other issues addressed first, then you might have people swayed more later by a VIP that enhances honor gain than whether you can avoid honor loss now...otherwise, you're also really making this a turn-off to some beatable opponents who don't have VIP, so can't be the targets for conquest you need in the first place. Stop honor losses for BG battle loss, and get us all playing Wartune again instead of using so much time up debating whether we should play certain events or not...include the whole community, make it fun, then the devs will make their money again.

                    Definitely agree with removing the 5000 point cap...let people score more, get even higher rewards, because compared to the value of the rewards you can get in a single BG, EXP needed for levels, honor needed for levels, number of kills needed for titles are all still very high and far away, and it's still going to take time to get there. (Should also add there are some, especially under level 80, who go in with an alt, use that just to get 20 kills per run, get the advanced kill titles, which mean nothing at that point because of how they got their kills...don't bother to just that off, but also understand how little honor loss really is when someone goes in there and games the event that way..."hey, I got killed once...who cares?!" The people who still play it and might be bothered at honor loss are THOSE people, and they're not worth trying to stop. Consider the players honor loss in BG is keeping out of the event when you need them in!)

                    Dryads...well, what this happens to be is an admission that matching is imperfect, and tries to give weak but ambitious players some chance, however remote, of scoring a kill every so often.
                    I think it maxes out at a level 100 blessing, btw, so in some matchups, there are players that just won't be beaten by competition in the room.
                    Since everyone is at the same advantage/disadvantage, and if you don't like that an opponent gets this advantage you can go get your own between PvP battles, I'm not so much against this as many others here seem to be...but I also believe it could stand some scrutiny and refinement considering all the points made.

                    As with many facets of Wartune, the problem is the cast-in-stone perspectives of the devs who are so hidebound they will not adjust the game to do something it desperately needs to survive, thinking instead it's perfectly fine to drive away players of the game in droves so long as they get a short-term payday from a few...while killing the long term and even near-term and the fun and the game so they've lost a thousand times more by being stubborn, and made this frustration instead of fun when they're like that. There has been something to like about a couple of iterations of the BG, even including the current one, and I think it might even be fair to say they've made enough effort through several redesigns at this point that a complete overhaul shouldn't be their first option today. But, wrap their arms around some of the perspective in this thread and they could improve it enough to make it a draw.

                    Having said all of this, most of the Patch 8.5 events are exclusive to spenders or are just terribly undesirable, and the current mood of the players is to wonder just how profoundly tone-deaf the devs are at this point. They'd better get their act together at 7Road while there's a Wartune to own. Fixing the BG event in line with comments here would be one nice help among many potential opportunities.
                    Last edited by Centaur0001; 05-25-2019, 04:18 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Centaur0001 View Post
                      Dryads...well, what this happens to be is an admission that matching is imperfect, and tries to give weak but ambitious players some chance, however remote, of scoring a kill every so often.
                      I think it maxes out at a level 100 blessing, btw, so in some matchups, there are players that just won't be beaten by competition in the room.
                      Since everyone is at the same advantage/disadvantage, and if you don't like that an opponent gets this advantage you can go get your own between PvP battles, I'm not so much against this as many others here seem to be...but I also believe it could stand some scrutiny and refinement considering all the points made.
                      VIP preventing honor loss won't be changed. The devs feel there needs to be a reason to have vip, since much of the convenience factor is in spirit covenant.
                      Not sure if they were ever on board with the points adjustment, so with the round of suggestions forwarded last week, we are going to try a slightly different suggestion regarding the impact of turning in the flag.
                      Dryads go up to lvl 100, and then resets once a fight has been won. Dryads are helpful when you're the smallest in the room, for sure, and regardless of how the matching works, someone will be the smallest. Where it goes wrong in this iteration of the battleground is the mobs give a higher level of dryads than being defeated by a player, which encourages farming mobs instead of fighting players, until lvl 100. The suggestion that's been forwarded again is to swap the level given by mob with that given by players.

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                      • #12
                        there is no point of thinking changing anything in BG if we dont get peeps in there, they have stopped doing BG, only jump in for devo. How about getting the BG devo after first kill or first points? Not just from jumping in. I need my hugs..only missing the last titel from kills and this way it will take forever. Somehow need to make BG fun again so peeps gets coming there again.

                        Taking away dryads only makes it difficull for the low BR players to get any honor or kills, its not fun.
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                        • #13
                          Removing jump in devo points, will not solve the problem. BR difference should be around +/- 10 mils max, that way maybe some would start doing it again. Dryads is a fake bonus and not worth going into BGs.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GanstaZ View Post
                            Removing jump in devo points, will not solve the problem. BR difference should be around +/- 10 mils max, that way maybe some would start doing it again. Dryads is a fake bonus and not worth going into BGs.
                            Perhaps that condition along with however current matching works.

                            A room with 0 to 10M still puts the lower end at too much a disadvantage, even with Level 100 Dryad's Blessing, to have any chance, so maybe there's a better way to split that hair?
                            The difference right now between 140M & 150M is also fairly insubstantial to try to fill a BG room, where some concession to quantity (a full or well-trafficked room) is desired.
                            (140M & 150M BRs exist, but how many are out there and in BG at the same time?)

                            But, I think this is another piece worth consideration.

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                            • #15
                              Another BG idea...how about a 10 minute timer on the flag holder to redeem the flag once it's captured, else he loses it? That's enough time, even with traffic in the room, to have any legitimate player get back to redeem the flag, or have several battles to protect it.

                              I've seen another real charmer in there lately. He and his alt both brandishing a "Colonel" title above their heads. He takes the flag, and while I could kill him (and have), I seem to come in on his side of the BG, and he plays it so his alt attacks him...he cultivates kills and honor, won't allow anyone else to play. 20-30 kills in a BG (24 today in one half-hour) because he's a superior cheater seems somewhat to defeat the intended purpose of the event, especially at a point where I'm getting in there needing EXP, and can't retrieve the flag from him because we're on the same team. Not to mention that if his alt wasn't in there, I'd be free to kill him...we seem to have a knack of scaring others out of the room right now, so I'm getting neither EXP nor honor.

                              Support seems happy to be uniform about ignoring the use of alts, even where this is someone obviously accruing titles, kills, and advantage with abuse of his alt at the expense of other players.

                              How about we ask the devs to take a step instead toward keeping the event flowing? And if none of the players in there want to bother with flags and just worry about other aspects, it won't matter, but it won't allow one player to hold his own team hostage through the entire BG, especially when some of us use honor scrolls or EXP enhancement items and this keeps us from playing honestly for full rewards. Using a timer to force at least two possession changes for the flag within 25 minutes also shouldn't be so excessive, nor should it impair someone having a fair chance to capture and redeem the flag...10 minutes in there is a long time.




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