Lag

[mud2017]

Centaur that was a honest, frank statement that only us here will understand. i don't need animated graphics bouncing all over the screen...i can read just fine. it looks cool and all...but if it's slowing gameplay....dump it. it's really quite simple..clean up the graphics, lose what really isn't needed, pretty.. but not vital. improve servers....spend alittle like we the players do.

[theghosthimself]

can't wait for the lag that will be caused by the upcoming patch, gl test servers, in the words of wartunes dev's ":may the lag be with you"..."its not the game it is your computer"

test server every 5 min refresh or game stalls completely (when doing things)... So even stopped trying there .......
think lag is made to be able to get it in html5 before end of nxt year roflmfao

Now to be or not to be there next year as game that is the question


And to Centaur ...Excellent said , Unfortunate the Dev's never read the Forum ... as being told ..

[beehappyfour]

Even if we put our frustrations in the game, developer don't read forum, if it's forwarded to the developer its just a short phrase or word not the real feelings and frustrations of what you put in the forum. That's the problem also if not directly read by the developer.

[Centaur0001]

Even if we put our frustrations in the game, developer don't read forum, if it's forwarded to the developer its just a short phrase or word not the real feelings and frustrations of what you put in the forum. That's the problem also if not directly read by the developer.

I've been told in the past something I wrote in this forum was forwarded, and the response I was given privately said it was convincing and "well written," so I'll trust it matters...all of it matters.

We have another patch apparently coming up, and I'm wondering if this will be another where more graphics are crammed in, or if, this time, we'll get one of the top line items reading something like "properly addressed all possible lag, blackscreen, whitescreen, stuttering, and graphics issues to optimize gameplay as player community deserves."

In the last seven days, I've lost three more members of my guild specifically to lag. If a player has to beg for a playable game, it's kind of bewildering, unless the game isn't being developed to be played...and spent upon. I can't think I'm missing the point that badly.

I just want to come in and play here. With my guild and my server. The way the game is working, none of us can. Not sure how much more simple the devs need it.

[Centaur0001]

In the event anyone from Wartune is trying still to keep pace with this most important issue of Game Lag, I've just updated
Case #: 693433.
which was closed on me without written notice some months ago after months of getting no useful response.

I just updated it with 28 (out of something like 250+ !!!) screen caps, most from the last few days, regarding Lag.
Some show, for example, an event screen where player graphics are all gray blobs.
Some will show the icons in my inventory, after waiting 5-10 minutes, still showing only spinning "clocks" instead of item icons.
Some will show discussion where often I didn't even initiate anything and had players talking for many minutes about lag...instead of bothering to run unrunable events.
Some of this is not on my native server (Kabam S36 on the S14 cluster) but includes chat from various R2Games and Armorgames servers, as well as comments from guild leaders on other Kabam servers.

The canned answers from Support still are the kind where they say "clear cookies and cache," or "we're still waiting for the devs," or...whatever excuse can be made, often, with one of the Support munchkins demanding (after Support auto-closed the ticket...when they have the idea they should send a response, which isn't always!) that we players (NOT the system that auto-closed a ticket because they don't want to hear us players anymore!) be more patient (when our patience was actually infinite until the ticket was prematurely closed on us).

Further patience is to the point of oblivion of the game.
Many can't play it anymore. It's just that awful.
They're leaving.

Can someone please look at this again, and with the very small cluster of comments and pics I sent in...every player is constantly talking lag and not the game now, on every populated server...can someone out there among Mods and Devs and Support and helpers and Mentors and everyone out there with some sway in how things work here...can you PLEASE have mercy on your players and decide to fix this now?

[MemoryLane]

If a ticket it idle for 2 weeks, it soft closes. A soft closed ticket can still be responded to, and the ticket will open back up. If it remains idle for 2 more weeks, it hard closes. Once a ticket is hard closed, neither side can respond to it. It's not realistically possible for support to go through the thousands of tickets and keep the pending tickets open themselves. Players need to continue to keep them open, if the issue is still present.

However, there are times when an active ticket is closed by support. When there's no further information needed, and no further information to be given, there's no reason to keep the ticket open. They know how frustrated we get hearing the same answer over and over. Support can't fix the game, they have to wait for the devs too. Your ticket might not still be open, but, the information you provided in it has all been categorized and forwarded to the devs.

The difference between tickets and forum posts is people can gather in threads on the forum, where they can support things that have been posted and share their own experiences. It's no longer a single player privately complaining about an issue, it becomes a crowd of people with a voice that grows louder as more replies are posted.

Some of the lag may be because the devs have disabled caching in flash, so we are having to grab all images from the server every single time we access the game. I'll do some research on the benefits for enabling cache, and will revisit this topic with the team and see if they can persuade the devs to enable that setting again.

[Centaur0001]

MemoryLane, much appreciate this input.

The last update I'd received seemed to be saying they'd be keeping the ticket open. There was no message from a soft close...as often there isn't...in spite of saying they'll let us know.
Part of the frustration is how such inconsistent treatment (and a lot of other adjectives would apply for many of us, as well) shows us what seems to us mere mortals to be a door slammed in our faces, a back turned, &c. There's no way for us to read anyone's mind when we're not told about a soft close, so not notified it's a hard close, &c. (Some say they've filed tickets never get a first notice, and often discuss how Support ignores them and their tickets consistently.)

Without getting a message about a soft close...how do we know that's even happened?...then turned into a hard close?

The system itself should perhaps generate a message saying monthly that certain tickets are routed to a queue for standing issues, are still being worked. Support should be able to set a switch and place tickets in that category. As I've actually developed and run support ticket systems, I know this should be entirely possible with any of them.

As a practical matter, yes, I'm curious how a change back to flash caching might work. Even if it's worse than what we have now, perhaps it's worth a try. We're dying here with what we have now. That said, taking minutes instead of just a few seconds to load those icons in the first place suggests a speed issue with the entire game, certainly not a cache issue alone...no way I should still have the inventory window open TEN minutes later sometimes and see spinning icons because none or few of them are loaded, but that's a frequent sight after minutes, not just 5-10 seconds...certainly, now, the icons never load in a timely fashion.

All the talk of needing HTML5 when Flash is EOL...why can't we get a hard response they're doing this? Or, until they've made a decision to do so, why do we continue to get development and additions where the game already can't handle what it has with Flash? At least one of the groups of screen caps I sent back with this latest ticket is a player saying she no longer plays her main toon often...regrets actually having made a Willpower...because the lag gets so much worse that she can only play on a level-camped (below level 70) toon...implying she loves the game, hates the lag to the point it stops her advancing...advancing exactly into the realm of levels where the devs are focusing new work. Without fixing lag *first*, there is no point in adding a further burden of graphics and overhead to a broken game.

When will we get the patch whose only patch notes are the lag has been fixed?

As another screen cap of chat I sent them just now also shows, someone with an advanced gaming computer system, someone who plays other games often and easily, can't play Wartune. It's not the players, it's Wartune. The jury isn't out on this one. It's the game. Or, perhaps, it's the combination of the game and too many accounts (not necessarily active ones) on a single server causing the headaches.

I seem to recall when they shut off caching it seemed at the time to help lag issues. But, no way for us to know that it wasn't something else they did simultaneously that made the improvement. And at this point, it's so bad, I think any of us would be happy for an effort (with the notion of switching back quickly if the change makes things suddenly much worse). Still, if the claim out there is HTML5 is the ultimate fix anyway...why are we wasting time, not getting there immediately, and not communicating about the plan to do it and a timetable...or, why is 7Road not just telling us in advance that on a certain date Wartune is just closing, stop developing for a game that will be killed anyway, and let the player community say its goodbyes? There's no way this far in they're so much on the fence they're both developing AND deciding not to keep the game open, and if they're keeping the game open, not going immediately to HTML5 (again, all I'm hearing is that's the fix) is only costing them long-term player base and money.

[Darkling1976]

HTML5 will be the fix if the lag is the result of Flash. However, if the lag is due to inept coding then there's no reason to expect the performance to be any better with HTML5.

[Centaur0001]

HTML5 will be the fix if the lag is the result of Flash. However, if the lag is due to inept coding then there's no reason to expect the performance to be any better with HTML5.

It sounds like the only real hope is to transition to HTML5. Immediately, really.

Inept coding won't cure itself, except with all new devs, and CYA in any language is part of human nature.

So, the only mystery is why we're all not aware already of the planned move to HTML5...which is the only thing that makes logical sense in the face of continued patches and development...or of the planned closure...which only makes sense because it defies logic in the same manner so much else in Wartune has done so over the course of time, but perhaps they think without all these players to tend to, they might get some real coding and development work done.

[GM_Equinox]

This is a wonderful topic, and as such I have passed this along. Collective minds discussing how to improve the game and try to get it onto HTML5 is a thread I personally gave to the ops team.

[Centaur0001]

This is a wonderful topic, and as such I have passed this along. Collective minds discussing how to improve the game and try to get it onto HTML5 is a thread I personally gave to the ops team.

Very much appreciate that!

All of us are only here because we want the game to work, and be a spectacular place to have fun.

[MemoryLane]

MemoryLane, much appreciate this input.

The last update I'd received seemed to be saying they'd be keeping the ticket open. There was no message from a soft close...as often there isn't...in spite of saying they'll let us know.
Part of the frustration is how such inconsistent treatment (and a lot of other adjectives would apply for many of us, as well) shows us what seems to us mere mortals to be a door slammed in our faces, a back turned, &c. There's no way for us to read anyone's mind when we're not told about a soft close, so not notified it's a hard close, &c. (Some say they've filed tickets never get a first notice, and often discuss how Support ignores them and their tickets consistently.)

Without getting a message about a soft close...how do we know that's even happened?...then turned into a hard close?

The system itself should perhaps generate a message saying monthly that certain tickets are routed to a queue for standing issues, are still being worked. Support should be able to set a switch and place tickets in that category. As I've actually developed and run support ticket systems, I know this should be entirely possible with any of them.

The ticket system automatically sends a message to the email regarding any closure, and provides instruction on how to proceed if there's still an issue, when the system soft and hard closes a ticket. Some players have fully resolved issues, but they never come back to say they don't need the ticket open anymore, so tickets have to automatically close after some time.

All tickets ARE responded to, so if some are finding they have received no response at all after 3 days from sending in a new ticket, either the system did not receive the ticket or the player is not receiving the email response. Not receiving a response can be due to the email provider being used, as some do have the support mail blocked, and sometimes it's due to a typo in the provided email address, and other times it can be an error with the ticket system. A new ticket should be sent in if there's no response to the first one. Encourage people to reach out to us on the forum if they'd like us to confirm the ticket was received and confirm a response was given. All we need for that is the exact character name and server.



The only response we have been given in regards to html5 is not to worry, and there's still a lot of time. We're only halfway through 2019. There's still a year and a half, and it's not likely we'll get anything solid for the next year, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't still continue to pester them about it and try to get them to move up their timeline on whatever it is they are planning.

[Centaur0001]

MemoryLane, again, thanks for the follow-up here. It means a lot to all of us hoping for a miracle cure to a game-fatal illness.

The ticket system automatically sends a message to the email regarding any closure, and provides instruction on how to proceed if there's still an issue, when the system soft and hard closes a ticket. Some players have fully resolved issues, but they never come back to say they don't need the ticket open anymore, so tickets have to automatically close after some time.

I'm specifically saying, in my experience, it sometimes doesn't work this way...open tickets, where there has been a bit back and forth, suddenly stop getting follow-up, even when it is stated Support is going back to the devs to try to get action. I've got the trail of some tickets (well, many) where after a reply and confirmation by Support (a soft close, then a response to keep open), the ticket disappears. No notice of either another soft close or of a hard close. Sorry, but what you're saying about how it should work is not how it does work for me. I'm one of those who keeps EVERY e-mail archived, and am certain on this point. I never got a soft or hard close message on my Lag ticket thread after my last exchange with support, so was adding to a ticket that, for all I could know, was still open when I sent my addition the other night.

All tickets ARE responded to, so if some are finding they have received no response at all after 3 days from sending in a new ticket, either the system did not receive the ticket or the player is not receiving the email response. Not receiving a response can be due to the email provider being used, as some do have the support mail blocked, and sometimes it's due to a typo in the provided email address, and other times it can be an error with the ticket system. A new ticket should be sent in if there's no response to the first one. Encourage people to reach out to us on the forum if they'd like us to confirm the ticket was received and confirm a response was given. All we need for that is the exact character name and server.

I'll gladly do this. But, it's also troubling just how many people are discussing having this issue. I haven't had it to any substantial degree...not compared to people who now assume they're being blocked by Support...though that's enough reason to at least question if it's not the other way around. But, in saying this, there is also something else I've suspected at work, that I've tried to address, and may simply discuss with you outside of this thread so as not to take us miles off the track here.

The only response we have been given in regards to html5 is not to worry, and there's still a lot of time. We're only halfway through 2019. There's still a year and a half, and it's not likely we'll get anything solid for the next year, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't still continue to pester them about it and try to get them to move up their timeline on whatever it is they are planning.

First, yes, "pestering" is worthwhile.

However, based on current game performance, where some of the screen caps I've just sent include comments from R2Mentors telling me how broken the game is and how they're obviously hinting they're about to quit, where your best advocates of the game are just tired of how laggy the game is and how unplayable it is and how the social part of the game is breaking down because friends are leaving because of the lag to the point your best and more avid players and advocates are ALL looking at leaving, waiting for Flash EOL to approach closer before starting conversion to HTML5 is obscenely stupid, especially from the business point of view, where players certainly are spending less or not at all on an unplayable game that, until it's fixed, almost deserves to close. What part of this isn't crystal clear, as the devs ponder whether or not to keep the game going due to revenue issues, and as they continue to spend on development that none of us can even see properly?

As someone at the mercy of what the devs provide (as we all are), I cannot see or understand the merit in waiting until Flash EOL is closer. For immediate and necessary impact urgent for the game's survival, it seems obvious their first priority should be conversion to HTML5 NOW. Then, if there are still programming issues not related to FlashPlayer, well, then it's a separate problem that we can't address, if it even exists, until the move to HTML5 is done. At that point, it's a hunt for different solutions, but putting off what may be a necessary hunt for issues by a year or more, when the game is dying, and meantime adding graphics burden when they seem to be admitting they understand Flash can't handle the game as it now exists...am I wrong here?...they need a moritorium on further actual development until they provide code in a fashion we players can use to play the game effectively. On a real-world connection.

Why is it "only halfway through 2019" when it should be more like, "OMG, we're halfway through 2019 and we STILL haven't fixed this yet?...let's not waste another moment, because we want to keep our players happy and spending money on our game instead of driving them away with a stick, and with guns, and with bombs." Again, what am I missing here? The response you got, that you're communicating, sounds like the devs are happy to wait more than another year (or forever) to fix the game, expecting we'll all still be here spending on it. I can promise you, as someone trying to hold a larger guild together every day, that's just not gonna happen.

When even the chat window lags behind our modest typing speed now, and we can't do anything for long without a refresh, can't get into a single prolonged combat without skills hampered badly by lag, there's no game here to play. Yes, please "pester," cajole, implore, whatever it is you do with devs, and tell them waiting til the last minute to address HTML5, THEN any other existing issues that lack-of-conversion has been hiding, is going to be lethal. They need it done yesterday. Since that hasn't happened, they need it now, today, this instant...as players are dropping daily. Even the die-hards are having a hard time seeing themselves here much longer. The people who have gone silent in June and July are shattering losses from all I've seen, and if we're not even talking with planned dates sometime by the end of July, more will leave...many, many more.

[Darkling1976]

The only response we have been given in regards to html5 is not to worry, and there's still a lot of time. We're only halfway through 2019. There's still a year and a half, and it's not likely we'll get anything solid for the next year, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't still continue to pester them about it and try to get them to move up their timeline on whatever it is they are planning.

It would be a sign of good faith to their playerbase that they were actively working on the transition to html5. As things stand the game is barely playable. Updating to html5 is an opportunity to refresh their code and potentially resolve issues that players ahve been complaining about for years. That they are not actively persuing this suggests (at least to me) that they are not planning to.

Communicating to their players that they were working on updating the game for life post flash would suggest that it's worth continuing to play this game. Or have they just put it in the too hard basket and are stringing everybody along?

[Centaur0001]

It would be a sign of good faith to their playerbase that they were actively working on the transition to html5. As things stand the game is barely playable. Updating to html5 is an opportunity to refresh their code and potentially resolve issues that players ahve been complaining about for years. That they are not actively persuing this suggests (at least to me) that they are not planning to.

Well said about opportunity.
How do you think this reconciles with the fact they're actually adding patches and new items/events/features, &c?
I think that's the toughest part to reconcile...it makes no sense they wouldn't be working on an HTML5 revision as a priority, yet the most we hear is "maybe it'll happen."

Communicating to their players that they were working on updating the game for life post flash would suggest that it's worth continuing to play this game. Or have they just put it in the too hard basket and are stringing everybody along?

Again, very well said.
And, until we actually KNOW, it's a barrier to being attractive to new players, to keeping existing ones, and, most important to them, to anyone spending on a game that could be going away any day now.

Or, am I missing a key point here?