Very Nice game but...

[Falconwolf]

Well, I've been playing this game for a few weeks now, and I'm on my 3rd server. I started on 1 server and created a mage. I didn't like the fact that everyone else seemed to own me pretty easily. At the time, being new to the game and knowing very little about the mechanics and other aspects I assumed the mage was a broken class that needed major revision. That assumption may not be completely true but there is some truth to it.

Anyway, I then realized that this is one of those games where if you come into the server late you are S O L...so when a new server opened up I went there and created a knight. I played there for a little while and reached lvl 34, but although I did decent in the PVE content, when it came to PVP, it was archers that dominated. Yes there were a few knights and mages near the top as well, but they were rare. I did notice some bugs with some of the knight skills which were confirmed by other people...no big deal, this game is still new and considered beta...but still like the previous server the archer dominated.

So wanting to try an archer so I wouldn't suck, I switched to my 3rd server as soon as it opened (I mean within minutes), and I created an archer and leveled him as fast as I could... I had realized at this time it was important to level fast to try and stay ahead of everyone else). I joined a very good guild (top of the server...with the top 2-3 players and at least 6-7 players that were in the top 10-12 of the server, including myself, yes I had managed to be one of the top players, ranking between 4th and 10th in solo PVP and frequently in the top 3 on world bosses including 1 top on world boss.

Now here are some flaws I see in this game, as much fun as it is..and it is a fun game... I have found some flaws.

1 - The first and biggest flaw is rewarding the top players with huge sums of gold and other rewards
2 - Allowing someone to be a top player simply by spending $100 real world cash to get the top gear and gems and other equipment.
3 - All the timers in the game.
4 - Class imbalances

Now let me explain these...

1 - In this game it costs gold and daru to improve yourself for solo pve and for pvp play ... and it also cost kayanite but this one is an even resource as no one can acquire this any faster than anyone else... . Well the top players are rewarded with huge sums of gold and daru. In the world boss events rank 1 is rewarded with 300k gold and 300k daru, rank 2 200k gold and 200k daru and rank 3 100k gold and 100k daru, and if you are not ranked 1-3 but get 1% damage on boss you get 50k gold and 50k daru, everyone else is out of luck and will only receive the gold and daru equal to their damage (and it should be noted that those ranked 1-3 and the 1%'ers also get this) which might be as much as 40k if they are lucky.

Arena rankings, I'm not sure how much the top ranked arena person gets, but I've been ranked 4th for a time and I've seen and received I think it was about 380k gold and 380k daru for 5th rank (that's an approximation, as I don't recall the exact amount). On my previous servers with my knight and my mage I wasn't even ranked top 200 and got a tiny pitance in comparison.

Team Arena, the top players team up with each other to make unbeatable teams, I know I've seen it often enough and know that the top 3 ranked people on my server (who are in my guild) team up for this and never lose. So the top players team up and though the matching system is supposed to match you according to your Battle Rating, what happens is that there are so few players with those extremely high BR's that they are matched with those other less well geared players, and you have 2, maybe 3 groups that win virtually every match and others that are lucky to win half the time.

Catacombs, here the best geared players once again dominate, being able to make it through much further than anyone else and receiving the best rewards more often and much sooner than others would be able to. On my current server, the top ranked Cata player was my guild leader (the top ranked player on the server), he's an archer and when he was lvl 32 he beat cata to level 40, yes that's level 40. No one else was even close, the next closest being level 32. Now yes this person is geared out with the best gear real world money can buy but that's not the point.

The point of all of this is that the best geared players (and though there is ...some...skill required to play this game, it is mostly about gear) get the best rewards and are thus able to gear up even more, further outpacing those that do not get those rewards.

There are a few top players on my server, and yes I'm one of them, I'm one of the top 10 so I have been able to gear myself up nicely. All my buildings are max level, my gryphons are max level ... and I still have 3 million daru to spare, and my guild mate, the top player on the server has over 30 million daru to spare...yes 30 million daru to spare even after he leveled his gryphons to 35, no joke ... my guildie, the top player on the server has by far the most guild contributions because he gets gold easily with all the huge rewards he gets, allowing him to get the top guild skills (I have them myself, though they took me slightly longer to get), and though his astrals are not all top notch yet he has easily spent millions of gold getting some really really nice astrals because he has the gold to do it.

This guildie of mine, the top player on the server is able to do all this because he is constantly rewarded with huge sums of gold and daru (he actually commented that he wished there was a way to trade in daru for gold cuz he already has more than he will need) and other perks.

2 - No game should allow anyone to dominate others simply by paying real world money, sure there can be many other perks that are buyable with real world money, but allowing someone to buy the best gear and equipment for your level in a game where the gear you have is far far more important than skill should never be.

Add my points #1 and #2 together and you end up with a very few people who dominate everyone else simply because they have more real world money and because they were top of the server first (in great part because of that real world money)... and being top of the server first is one of the most important things to be to be top of the server later on because you will have all the gold and daru and equipment and gems and astrals you need to be top of the server later on while everyone else is struggling to pay guild contributions to get that level 3 guild skill in the hopes it might allow them to increase rank a little.

3 - The timers in this game. Well, what can be said about the timers...we have timers for farm crops and timers for building upgrades (timers for other things as well but I don't think those others are a problem). The problem with these timers is that it requires that ... to stay competitive ... you log on frequently (or stay logged on for very long periods of time) to continue upgrading buildings and cultivating crops as the timers expire. Meaning that anyone who has a lot more free time than others will be able to upgrade their stuff more quickly and have an advantage over others.

Again this is an advantage given to players not because of anything in-game but simply because of their lifestyle and free time.

My suggestion for this (I actually have a suggestion for this problem) is to create an in-game "manager". Maybe he's buyable with vouchers (like the 2nd construction team) or maybe you get him automatically at an early level or maybe you have a special quest for him. But what this manager is is an in-game program to automatically upgrade your buildings and cultivate your crops and re-plant new crops by giving this manager a detailed explanation of what to upgrade and in what order, and for crops it automatically harvests your crop when it's ready and buys and re-plants new crops depending on what you instructed. This would allow everyone with or without real world free time to be on an even playing field for these 2 areas at least.

4 - Class imbalances...not much to say here. Some people don't see it, but most do, and those are discussed elsewhere in many other posts.

Essentially the top players, already being top players, are able to gear up with the best gear and equipment much sooner than everyone else and thus remain top players throughout the game. No one else will be able to come close. Sure you don't have to pay a lot of real world money to be a top player, but if you are willing to spend a couple of hundred dollars on this game, and were lucky enough to do so just as the server opened, then you will remain a top player throughout.

What's the incentive for everyone else to play when they don't have a chance at ever winning any of the top spots simply because they don't have the real world money to spend, started on the server too late, or don't have the time to devote to the game? If you enjoy the game that should be enough? Really? maybe for some, but how many players will leave because it's not enough?

Now this game is still beta so I wasn't and I am not expecting perfection, and I'm not saying this game sucks because I actually like this game...at least now that I'm playing an archer and dominating. However I don't think I will continue playing, mainly because of point #3. Although I have all the free time in the world to play as long as I would like (and need to to stay competitive), doing so means I spend so much time playing that I do very little else in real life. The other 3 points are no longer relevant to me as I am now an archer who is dominating, but I remember what it was like not doing so.

Hopefully the developer will give some thought to my points, as I believe they are all valid points (some may disagree, and that's our right).

[creedx]

+1
I strongly agree with you on point 1,2 and 4. But i also disagree with point 3. As the genre of this game is adventure/strategy. And strategy games are meant to reuire your time. So the time clock factor in the game is ok. I would realy appreciate if everyone will read and try to understand your post throughly before commenting. You have have made some strong valid points.

[ProNab]

Money Pays The Bills And Keeps The Game Free 'Nuff Said

[Falconwolf]

I thought I should add, that since I talk about this guildie of mine a bit here, that he is a very nice person and is very helpfull. He has helped me improve my gameplay as well, and what I say here isn't meant as a "look at how OP he is, he doesn't deserve that", it was citing how the game is setup by talking about the most extreme example. He is the top player on the server not only because he has the best gear (having spent real world money to get a lot of it..which is perfectly valid, though I would wish this were not possible) but also because he understands this game well and how to take advantage of everything. My guild which he runs is the top guild on the server thank in large part to him. He took advantage of all the things that make a player great and he deserves to be the top ranked player. So Sylvia, because I know you read these forums this is not to denigrate you at all, I think your great! Just trying to make my points so that hopefully the developers will modify the game to make it better.

[Falconwolf]

Money Pays The Bills And Keeps The Game Free 'Nuff Said

Yes it does, but other games manage to accomplish this without allowing you to purchase gear and equipment that allow you to dominate other players simply by spending more real world money.

[ProNab]

Yes it does, but other games manage to accomplish this without allowing you to purchase gear and equipment that allow you to dominate other players simply by spending more real world money.

well simply put...think of it as an "edge" or fastforwarding, not wanting to farm the gear yourself, often enough the heavy cashers are just normal ppl with jobs that come home pop open the comp. and just play a game for a little R&R and ofc it's human nature to be competitive, but when you have work and other things to juggle you just don't have the luxury of time on your hand, so i think it is quite fair if they wanna pay for their gear

[Chompman]

For #1 right now there is a limit what gold can get you with astros and helping your guild and daru itself is mostly useless at many times until you unlock new troops.

But stronger players generally spend more time and money to get more rewards so if you take that away why would they pay?


As for #2 that's generally the point of a "free to play with bonuses for those that pay" games.

But right now the best gear you can buy is the level 20 and level 30 sets and the jewelry pieces and those all get out geared as time goes on and other then extra gem slots you can make that's it but paying players need something as a reward.

#3 makes little sense as every mmorpg out there it is where the more time you spend in it the more you get out of it.

Buildings are easy to reach max since it takes awhile to reach later levels and crops are a decent source of income but again more time in a game is generally how you get ahead.

[Falconwolf]

well simply put...think of it as an "edge" or fastforwarding, not wanting to farm the gear yourself, often enough the heavy cashers are just normal ppl with jobs that come home pop open the comp. and just play a game for a little R&R and ofc it's human nature to be competitive, but when you have work and other things to juggle you just don't have the luxury of time on your hand, so i think it is quite fair if they wanna pay for their gear

Actually it's not fair...that's the point. Spending real world money to acquire the best gear and equipment is (at least in this game) a "legal cheat". Let me use World of Warcraft as an example for my point here. It is an MMO as well and it requires you to spend time and effort to acquire your gear and equipment, but if you spend real world money to buy your gear and equipment you will get banned from the game because it's cheating. Just because this game allows it doesn't make it fair.

And thinking of it as an "edge" or fastforwarding is just another way of saying cheating while trying to make it sound legit, and your excuses for why it should be legal are why I made point #3.

[Falconwolf]

For #1 right now there is a limit what gold can get you with astros and helping your guild and daru itself is mostly useless at many times until you unlock new troops.

yes there are limits to what gold and daru can get you...but that's part of my point...that is it's pretty much only the top players that hit those limits. Talk to the people on your servers and you will see that few people have max lvl troops (never having enough daru) or max guild skills (never having enough gold), and few of those people will have any real nice astrals (save the lucky few) because they lack to gold to continue trying. THAT'S MY POINT, and thank you for helping me to make it.

But stronger players generally spend more time and money to get more rewards so if you take that away why would they pay?

I can't comment on most other free to play games with optional pay real world money for in-game bonuses, but I did play Dungeons and Dragons Online for quite a while. They have the same free to play, with subscription options (subscribing has benefits) and being able to pay real world cash for in-game bonuses...but none of that, neither the subscription nor the additional purchase make your characters stronger, they do other things like giving you more bag or bank space for instance.

And that system works extremely well there, D&D online makes a lot of money from people with subscriptions and people buying "points" to spend in-game for stuff without allowing it to make players stronger than others.

As for #2 that's generally the point of a "free to play with bonuses for those that pay" games.

No it's not the point of a "free to play with bonuses for those that pay" games. There are many other games (as the example I posted right above) that do it without allowing players to dominate other players simply by spending real world money.

So far it sounds like, from the 2 of you arguing for this method of buying gear, that you just want to have an unfair advantage over others.

But right now the best gear you can buy is the level 20 and level 30 sets and the jewelry pieces and those all get out geared as time goes on and other then extra gem slots you can make that's it but paying players need something as a reward.

Why do paying players need to be able to get the best gear and equipment as a reward? Please explain this, if you ignore every other thing I have said at least explain this to me!

Also nothing you said here is an argument against anything I've said, though you tried it to be...yes that gear that is buyable gets outgeared eventually, BUT, those that bought this gear and dominated already have so much gold and other resources that they will be first to get the next level gear and equipment and keep dominating...that's kind of my point!

#3 makes little sense as every mmorpg out there it is where the more time you spend in it the more you get out of it.

Buildings are easy to reach max since it takes awhile to reach later levels and crops are a decent source of income but again more time in a game is generally how you get ahead.

That's more or less true...but wouldn't a game be much more enjoyable if you didn't have to spend so much time (and with the timers, at very specific times...I've known people in other games with similar timers to set their alarm clocks for various times in the middle of the night so they could get up and do what they had to do when their timers were up then go back to bed) doing stuff!

This last point of yours, my point #3 is about trying to see if there's a way of making the game more enjoyable and playable without having to expend so much time playing. After all, just because other games do it that way does not mean it has to be done that way. Try thinking outside the box from time to time.

[rickangel]

.... the dev should remove cash shop from the game and make this game Pay-to-Play instead of Free-To-Play. That will solve every problems...^^ [/sarcasm]

To me there are 2 types of players:
1/ No money -> have to work hard, spend time to farm for items and gold
2/ Rich -> dont have time to play(school & work), spend money to catch up with #1.

As for me, I dont have much time to play this game coz I have work and school. I would prefer to spend $50 per day so that i dont have to online and grind for stuffs.

[Falconwolf]

.... the dev should remove cash shop from the game and make this game Pay-to-Play instead of Free-To-Play. That will solve every problems...^^ [/sarcasm]

Thank you for adding nothing productive to this conversation. Why waste your time and everyone elses time with this?

[Chompman]

Actually it's not fair...that's the point. Spending real world money to acquire the best gear and equipment is (at least in this game) a "legal cheat". Let me use World of Warcraft as an example for my point here. It is an MMO as well and it requires you to spend time and effort to acquire your gear and equipment, but if you spend real world money to buy your gear and equipment you will get banned from the game because it's cheating. Just because this game allows it doesn't make it fair.

And thinking of it as an "edge" or fastforwarding is just another way of saying cheating while trying to make it sound legit, and your excuses for why it should be legal are why I made point #3.

Well there is a big difference between a monthly fee game and a "free to play" game.

Not to mention last I checked but the best gear in WoW was bound on pickup so you cannot do that and like all other mmorpgs the more time you placed in WoW generally the better gear you had so that's no different then here.

The game needs ways to make money and generally games do that by selling gear and ways to improve your character but right now everything you can buy can be obtained by normal players other then for the two legendary pieces and the extra gem slots and that's a huge improvement as in many games you cannot do that.

I don't know what you expect them to sell to make the money required to keep the game running but right now this is one of the most fair shop markets for this type of game I have come across for a long time.

[Chompman]

yes there are limits to what gold and daru can get you...but that's part of my point...that is it's pretty much only the top players that hit those limits. Talk to the people on your servers and you will see that few people have max lvl troops (never having enough daru) or max guild skills (never having enough gold), and few of those people will have any real nice astrals (save the lucky few) because they lack to gold to continue trying. THAT'S MY POINT, and thank you for helping me to make it.

I have had no issues with getting max level troops at level 37, with plenty stored up for the next group but maybe not enough to get them to max level right away but that's not a huge issue, and I have max guild skills for the skills I need as the power / defense / and endurance are all at level 3 and the others I don't need to worry about for a long time.

Also I have decent astrals, three purple ones for the main stats with two orange in storage when I get more room and a couple extra purples that are saved for the future when I get more room or use to boost better ones I get eventually.

All this as a free player and I see many others like that.

Spend more time in a game and you usually will do better but the game limits how much you can do other then the farm so it's not a huge requirement as other mmorpg's can be.

Either come up with a better way for the shop to work or it won't get changed if all you have said is the shop is overpowered but with nothing added on how to fix it for this game.

[Falconwolf]

Well there is a big difference between a monthly fee game and a "free to play" game.

Yes there is, but that point has absolutely no relevance to anything I've said.

Not to mention last I checked but the best gear in WoW was bound on pickup so you cannot do that

Again, a completely non-relevant point, because you are saying that my point is not valid because a lot of the best gear in WOW is BOP (not all the best though), which has nothing to do with my point, which was that being able to buy in-game gear with real world money here in Wartune is a "legal cheat". Nothing you've said has countered that point.

and like all other mmorpgs the more time you placed in WoW generally the better gear you had so that's no different then here.

That's not true at all. In WOW I've known many players that would log in for 2-3 hours a few nights a week and maybe twice that long on weekends and still have some of the best gear and equipment in the game because they knew how to manage their time ...heck that's how I did it (doing Raids mainly with some minor farming, and maybe a little PVP on the side...or some go the other route and do the PVP thing, again while still minimizing their play time)

The game needs ways to make money and generally games do that by selling gear and ways to improve your character but right now everything you can buy can be obtained by normal players other then for the two legendary pieces and the extra gem slots and that's a huge improvement as in many games you cannot do that.

The game needs to make money, absolutely. But there are games out there (as I've already mentioned, so I don't know why you would ignore that and pretend it wasn't mentioned) that accomplish making lots of money without allowing you to buy gear and equipment that gives you an unfair advantage. And the fact that this same gear is obtainable in-game by regular means is irelevant because for example the level 30 gear set if bought with outside money is usable as soon as you hit 30...while the rest of us have to wait till we are higher level to obtain it...heck I'm nearly level 35 and have exhausted every in-game resource to acquire everything possible everyday and I still don't have a single piece of that gear yet. So stop ignoring my points while throwing out smoke and mirrors to try and confuse my points.

I don't know what you expect them to sell to make the money required to keep the game running but right now this is one of the most fair shop markets for this type of game I have come across for a long time.

I don't know what your definition of fair is if this game is the most fair, but as I've said already, I've already pointed out an example of another "free to play" game with subscription options and optional buying loot that does it truly fairly and still makes a lot of money. Why would you ignore that and repeat something I've already shown is false?

[Falconwolf]

I have had no issues with getting max level troops at level 37, with plenty stored up for the next group but maybe not enough to get them to max level right away but that's not a huge issue, and I have max guild skills for the skills I need as the power / defense / and endurance are all at level 3 and the others I don't need to worry about for a long time.

Also I have decent astrals, three purple ones for the main stats with two orange in storage when I get more room and a couple extra purples that are saved for the future when I get more room or use to boost better ones I get eventually.

Ahh, I see now, this is all a "well everything is fine for me, so **** before you ruin my advantages"

All this as a free player and I see many others like that.

Yes, you can be a top player without spending any real world money...so long as no one else on your server does either. As for you see many others like that, I don't believe you. I've seen both sides of this...I've been the lowly ranked 250th player talking with all the other players ranked 150+ and seen how very few manage to acquire top guild skills or max their troops (by the time they do max some troops it still makes no difference because the top players are already way past them again)

Spend more time in a game and you usually will do better but the game limits how much you can do other then the farm so it's not a huge requirement as other mmorpg's can be.

It is a huge requirement. See I can make a simple statement as well with nothing to back it up...except I've spent 12+ hours a day on this game so i could complete everything possible to it's limits so I know it does take a huge time requirement (I could spend less time if I were willing to have a lower level farm)

Either come up with a better way for the shop to work or it won't get changed if all you have said is the shop is overpowered but with nothing added on how to fix it for this game.

OK, this oft stated argument of "either come up with something better or else" thing is a very old and very flawed argument. In the first place, it is an admission that there is a lot wrong with the shop, otherwise you wouldn't have said come up with something better. In the second place, this being the suggestions and FEEDBACK forums does not require me to actually make a suggestion (even if it is also the "suggestion" forum) as they are asking for feedback, that is what we think of the game, and what we might see as wrong so that THEY, the developers, might come up with some ways to fix things. And thirdly, I HAVE pointed out a system that works better, you just chose to ignore it.

It's amazing the amount of things some people will ignore to keep their own world view of things stable.