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How to tell what is bugged or not without more detailed patch notes?

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  • How to tell what is bugged or not without more detailed patch notes?

    I ask this because there was a pretty significant change to the knight skill Mar's Will with this patch, and it has happened with some other skills in the past too, like airy guardian for Pan/Medusa. Yet using Mar's Will as an example the maintenance's patch notes which are quoted below says nothing about changes to Mar's Will. Which means it was a stealth change, and those are bad for a number of reasons, the two big ones is it makes it very hard to tell what is a bug and what is intended, as well as destroying players faith and trust in how the game works.

    Originally posted by R2_Helen View Post
    Patch notes:
    • New quest “Worg’s Demise” will now drop crypt keys.
    • Fixed the issue where the coordinates of some castles were bugged in the Wilds; after the maintenance, all players will be transported to the initial island.
    • Optimized the sylph boss and the farming sylph system; notices will be shown if players have not finished the level 50 sylph quest.
    • Fixed some text mistakes.
    Prior to the maintenance, Mar's Will significantly reduced AoE damage, and was very useful because of that, even if that was not how it was intended to work. Post maintenance, Mar's Will does nothing to AoE attacks anymore, which makes it into a very bad skill, since there are very few times where splitting up single target damage is actually useful thanks to the rather long cool down times on the AoE heals in the game, especially when itself costs 80 rage and has a 60s cooldown. So unless it can split the damage to less than what a Suntoria would heal each turn, it is more detrimental to use it than another skill. While the post maintenance version of Mar's Will is more inline with its tooltip, it is now a vastly inferior skill.

    The big problem here is nothing was said about any changes to the skill in the patch notes, so it is hard to know if this change was indeed a bug fix, or it is now a new bug. Either way though, the change is bad for Knights, when a lot of focus in the game is on PvP events where AoE is abused to no end, or the higher end PvE where enemies AoE's are often hitting harder than their other attacks. Stealth changes in general create unhappy players as they destroy any faith in the game working as it is supposed to since they end up not knowing how things are supposed to work in the first place.

    On a 2nd note, if the post maintenance Mar's Will is the intended working of it, they really need to rethink a lot of the advanced skills, as for a lot of people, the new HP passive is turning out to be the best of the new skills across all 3 classes, especially since limited to 5 active skills at a time, and many of the advanced skills are not worth using outside of super situational circumstances. Just taking Knights new actives as an example. Resurrection costs too much rage for what it does thanks to your current HP dropping once the skill ends which makes its only real use being to get a slightly larger agoran sheild off. Blade Storm, while Knights did need another AoE ability, this once costs too much rage for what it does, especially when you compare its damage potential to the AoE's Mages and Archers get access to that cost a ton less rage, and considering the healing reduction is so low that it is essentially negligable. Death Warrant, is actually pretty good at first glance, but the more I have used it, and found out that its bleed debuff does not stack with things such as Poison arrows, Sinister Rot, and Consuming Flames, it quickly became only alright and that is only due to its upfront damage being nice, and not limited to the front row. Mar's Will I detailed above when discussing the effects of stealth changes to a game, to repeat the above, pre-patch it was very useful due to giving protection to lots of nasty aoe, or aoe spam, post patch it is pretty much junk due to its cost and being way too situational to be beneficial.

  • #2
    Well, they said that there will be no problem of casting Blessed Light while Mar's Will is activated.

    I think it became more useful in pve.

    Comment


    • #3
      mars will is very useful in arena vs hercs
      especially when it spilts 400k delphics
      IGN/Server: Crusader Kabam 62
      Class: Archer
      Battle Rating: 275k (with herc br)

      Guild: Black Lotus
      Sylph: Hercules ★★ 46968
      Originally posted by Wraithraiser
      but yeah. Robo_Hobo for presidente

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Brutal_Hobo View Post
        mars will is very useful in arena vs hercs
        especially when it spilts 400k delphics
        it can be a deathly skill as well, when it splits 400K delphic and kill all of us lol
        SERVER: Kong Server 4 Oceanic (others see us as Kong-S6)
        IGN: Kimwong
        CLASS: Knight
        PLAYER TYPE: Light casher
        BATTLE RATING: 300K - 420K range
        Casual playing now, not gonna spend too much time

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by kimwong View Post
          it can be a deathly skill as well, when it splits 400K delphic and kill all of us lol

          true
          personally i hate it when people use it against my team
          today during arena someone used it and it won them the battle
          2nd time around i used dds and stunned the guy using it, we won by a long shot
          guess it depends on the way you use it, br of the opposition etc.
          many factors
          i love the idea of the skill, but my team has a hard time with it
          Last edited by Brutal_Hobo; 10-31-2014, 05:58 AM.
          IGN/Server: Crusader Kabam 62
          Class: Archer
          Battle Rating: 275k (with herc br)

          Guild: Black Lotus
          Sylph: Hercules ★★ 46968
          Originally posted by Wraithraiser
          but yeah. Robo_Hobo for presidente

          Comment


          • #6
            mars is just back to what i sould had been for think about aoe attack. how do u split aoe attack when i hit earvy ppl that alive.

            Comment


            • #7
              I do see it as useful for splitting Herc Delphics up, one of the few things it is still good for, however there still exists the problem of all the AoE a team has to weather before that becomes an option. After all, most arena teams you run into have 2-3 archers and mages in them, and teams of 4 archers and mages, without any knights is pretty common too. And while you can survive some Herc delphics split up, the other case of it making them more deadly thanks to now being an AoE is more often the case due to how much aoe gets used in arena. Why split up a super dangerous single target attack when your team by that point is often half dead?

              And the blessed light now being full strength when mars is up, is rather moot since the times one should be using Mar's Will just drastically diminished to the point it is getting hard to justify giving it one of your limited skill slots, and the reduced blessed light during old mars was acceptable since it also dealt with a lot of aoe damage.

              The biggest problem with the changes to Mar's Will, is there is nothing in the patch notes about it and it is a rather significant change. And thanks to there being nothing in the patch notes, and lots of things get patched with no mention in this game, makes it really hard to tell if Mar's Will or any other post patch changes are now bugged or working as intended.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hawklaser View Post
                I do see it as useful for splitting Herc Delphics up, one of the few things it is still good for, however there still exists the problem of all the AoE a team has to weather before that becomes an option. After all, most arena teams you run into have 2-3 archers and mages in them, and teams of 4 archers and mages, without any knights is pretty common too. And while you can survive some Herc delphics split up, the other case of it making them more deadly thanks to now being an AoE is more often the case due to how much aoe gets used in arena. Why split up a super dangerous single target attack when your team by that point is often half dead?

                And the blessed light now being full strength when mars is up, is rather moot since the times one should be using Mar's Will just drastically diminished to the point it is getting hard to justify giving it one of your limited skill slots, and the reduced blessed light during old mars was acceptable since it also dealt with a lot of aoe damage.

                The biggest problem with the changes to Mar's Will, is there is nothing in the patch notes about it and it is a rather significant change. And thanks to there being nothing in the patch notes, and lots of things get patched with no mention in this game, makes it really hard to tell if Mar's Will or any other post patch changes are now bugged or working as intended.
                dunno if u where a warrior but mars where bugged before mt for u can't split aoe attack because it hit all that alive. think about it

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TjiTzUr View Post
                  dunno if u where a warrior but mars where bugged before mt for u can't split aoe attack because it hit all that alive. think about it
                  I do play a Knight, and I was fully expecting some changes to Mar's Will because it was that good. My problem with the Mar's Will changes is they were not documented in the patch notes. The change to Mar's Will is fairly significant, so they really should of been documented in the patch notes. And the problem with undocumented changes to a game, is it makes it very hard to properly identify if something is indeed working right after a patch. I don't know about the rest of you, but I sure can't read the developer's minds to know how they want things working.

                  The other thing to keep in mind, is some things in this game also get translated incorrectly so you can not always go by the tooltips. Take Airy Guardian for Pan/Medusa for example, its tool tip reads "Max and Current HP increases by 30% for 3 rounds. After use, Max HP returns to its original value." It does not function as its tooltip states, since when the buff wears off your current HP is also reduced. Also look at Triton's skill, Water's Spirit, it says "Ensures the teammate with lowest HP to dodges a critical strike, lasts two turns." For a ~700 balen skill, that also consumes 500 awakening points on use, is either super crappy, or mistranslated as avoiding critical strikes on the lowest HP person on your team for 2 rounds is a waste, however I believe the Chinese version grants the person with the lowest HP immunity to death for 2 rounds, HUGE difference there, and I know I am not willing to potentially waste 700 balens to find out how it does indeed work.

                  The whole point here is when they do larger changes like this, they need to include it in the patch notes. If the old Mar's Will was indeed wrong, all they had to do was have a line in the patch notes reading "Fixed a bug with Mar's Will incorrectly interacting with Area of Effect damage and healing skills." And a company that was really interested in maintaining their player base and keeping them happy, would also have gave Knights a free skill reset due to a significant change to how a skill was working. Just like they should have done when they made the changes to slows and dispels for Nightmare Dungeons. Skill resets in situations like that in other publishers games are quite common because changes like that can and often do severely disadvantage a character that was built prior to those changes.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hawklaser View Post
                    I do play a Knight, and I was fully expecting some changes to Mar's Will because it was that good. My problem with the Mar's Will changes is they were not documented in the patch notes. The change to Mar's Will is fairly significant, so they really should of been documented in the patch notes. And the problem with undocumented changes to a game, is it makes it very hard to properly identify if something is indeed working right after a patch. I don't know about the rest of you, but I sure can't read the developer's minds to know how they want things working.
                    http://forum.r2games.com/showthread....30-3-30-AM-EDT

                    it was documented

                    Originally posted by R2_Helen View Post
                    Fixed some text mistakes.
                    IGN/Server: Crusader Kabam 62
                    Class: Archer
                    Battle Rating: 275k (with herc br)

                    Guild: Black Lotus
                    Sylph: Hercules ★★ 46968
                    Originally posted by Wraithraiser
                    but yeah. Robo_Hobo for presidente

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Changing how a skill works is not a text mistake, that would be more like correcting the tooltip for airy guardian, to how it currently works. So by that logic, is the world boss last hit changes also a text mistake?

                      Another example of a text mistake would be them actually fixing the group buy listed price of counter attack kits that they use to base the % discount they advertise to what they actually sell them for when they were in the shop.

                      Text mistakes are often just fixing typos and confusing grammar, not changing how things actually work.
                      Last edited by Hawklaser; 10-31-2014, 11:10 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hawklaser View Post
                        Changing how a skill works is not a text mistake, that would be more like correcting the tooltip for airy guardian, to how it currently works. So by that logic, is the world boss last hit changes also a text mistake?

                        Another example of a text mistake would be them actually fixing the group buy listed price of counter attack kits that they use to base the % discount they advertise to what they actually sell them for when they were in the shop.

                        Text mistakes are often just fixing typos and confusing grammar, not changing how things actually work.
                        you must be new here, welcome
                        IGN/Server: Crusader Kabam 62
                        Class: Archer
                        Battle Rating: 275k (with herc br)

                        Guild: Black Lotus
                        Sylph: Hercules ★★ 46968
                        Originally posted by Wraithraiser
                        but yeah. Robo_Hobo for presidente

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Brutal_Hobo View Post
                          you must be new here, welcome
                          Yeah, I would say that. One char on S470 when it started up.

                          Too bad it might be a rather short stay after how things in this game have gone in the past several weeks. The money grabbing has become more blatantly obvious, on top of what seems to be a growing disrespect for the players. It really seems like they are trying to kill their own game. Might be a big reason why I keep hearing about a number of people quitting the game.

                          The patch notes not documenting changes in a way that makes major changes understandable for players just was kind of a last straw for giving them any benefit of doubt on how see the player-developer relationship and how the game will continue in the future. As with no real patch notes, its next to impossible to tell what is a bug or intended when things do change.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Brutal_Hobo View Post
                            true
                            personally i hate it when people use it against my team
                            today during arena someone used it and it won them the battle
                            2nd time around i used dds and stunned the guy using it, we won by a long shot
                            guess it depends on the way you use it, br of the opposition etc.
                            many factors
                            i love the idea of the skill, but my team has a hard time with it
                            Well, seems your team has trouble with any other team, since we kicked your *** twice the other day.

                            Just out of curiosity, what is the br of your regular team?
                            Last edited by pietjeprecies; 11-01-2014, 06:23 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pietjeprecies View Post
                              Well, seems your team has trouble with any other team, since we kicked your *** twice the other day.

                              Just out of curiosity, what is the br of your regular team?



                              haha my normal team doesnt do that bad


                              if it was just me up front with 3 noobs behind or me and moosey up front i just do that arena because i wont wake up in tome for 2nd
                              my normal team is
                              me, 160k br
                              mage, 170k br, 220k br
                              knight, 180k br and if he cant get one, the other knight in the guild at around 230k br

                              2nd arena its rare that we lose if we have full group together
                              dont see many monsters anymore
                              IGN/Server: Crusader Kabam 62
                              Class: Archer
                              Battle Rating: 275k (with herc br)

                              Guild: Black Lotus
                              Sylph: Hercules ★★ 46968
                              Originally posted by Wraithraiser
                              but yeah. Robo_Hobo for presidente

                              Comment

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