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  • #31
    Originally posted by wartuneknight View Post
    i don't wana complain abt disabling df in most area but in god decent and in skytrail i think its unfair. ppl are saying that removing df means mages and knights can't do the same with mire or mage skill. for those who think the same that does removing archers bloodthirsty and heal rune and all mages healing skill will have same effect, no pls try to understand . there are some area where df should be Nerf (like wb) while other we should have.
    LOL @ anyone that tried to heal against any boss that enrages... a turn spent healing is simply a turn closer to enrage... as an archer you still have a CLEAR advantage in all the places where bosses enrage because it doesnt matter if you can heal(mage) or eat damage(knight) when if after 1 minute you havent killed the boss he simply one-shots you

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    • #32
      Originally posted by R262658125 View Post
      LOL @ anyone that tried to heal against any boss that enrages... a turn spent healing is simply a turn closer to enrage... as an archer you still have a CLEAR advantage in all the places where bosses enrage because it doesnt matter if you can heal(mage) or eat damage(knight) when if after 1 minute you havent killed the boss he simply one-shots you
      Archers are still the dps class. Even without being able to use DF in some events, they can still do tons of damage if they have a good rotation. Mage heal skills don't damage opponent, knight buffs don't damage opponent, but archer debuffs both weaken and damage opponent. When dealing with any boss that buffs to 1000%, that is a huge difference.

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      • #33
        Lol noobs, mages were the weakest class(due to sylphs) before this patch so its fair that both knights and archers got a little nerf.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by deucela View Post
          Lol noobs, mages were the weakest class(due to sylphs) before this patch so its fair that both knights and archers got a little nerf.
          .......archers got nerfed on DF(a skill that never worked on PvP), knight got nerfed on block heal, mages got nerfed on a 90k damage skill.

          it should be mages that needs to whine(not thats usefull), not the knights.

          ps: its the PVE part thats nerfed on archers, it is the same on PVP
          Last edited by icesz; 08-24-2014, 09:58 PM.
          R2 s116 Red Realm + (s113-s119) + (s126-s129-s132-s135) + (s72-s75-s78-s84-s88-s91)

          IGN : Illyasviel
          Class : Archer
          Guild : •OneŽ•
          LvL : 80
          Sylph : Zeus, Hecate, Poseidon
          BR : over 9000!!!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by icesz View Post
            .......archers got nerfed on DF(a skill that never worked on PvP), knight got nerfed on block heal, mages got nerfed on a 90k damage skill.
            Archers are still the strongest class tbh, similar br archers to mine do much more dmg with everything(especially the sylphs) than knights/mages similar br could ever dream of and therefore excel in pvp and also large part of pvm events.Before this event the gap between archers and rest was even much larger so its only nice to see some kind of balance update.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by deucela View Post
              Archers are still the strongest class tbh, similar br archers to mine do much more dmg with everything(especially the sylphs) than knights/mages similar br could ever dream of and therefore excel in pvp and also large part of pvm events.Before this event the gap between archers and rest was even much larger so its only nice to see some kind of balance update.
              not true.. true is you are much weaker. BR is just a guide.
              “Men trust God by risking rejection. Women trust God by waiting.”

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              • #37
                plzz remove ispeed from monster

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                • #38
                  Archers have been weakened by the change to DF. It was the only skill that balanced archers poor defenses...without DF archers dont last very long. I have over 100k br, 20 k PDEF lvl 8 GB astro and get killed by lvl 70 boss in wilds in 2 hits The knights last alot longer but die cos im not alive to scatter the A hole oped **** buffs. As an archer im feeling paper thin now.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Pickapath View Post
                    Archers have been weakened by the change to DF. It was the only skill that balanced archers poor defenses...without DF archers dont last very long. I have over 100k br, 20 k PDEF lvl 8 GB astro and get killed by lvl 70 boss in wilds in 2 hits The knights last alot longer but die cos im not alive to scatter the A hole oped **** buffs. As an archer im feeling paper thin now.
                    umm they dont hit you any harder now with df removed... just more often

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Pickapath View Post
                      Archers have been weakened by the change to DF. It was the only skill that balanced archers poor defenses...without DF archers dont last very long. I have over 100k br, 20 k PDEF lvl 8 GB astro and get killed by lvl 70 boss in wilds in 2 hits The knights last alot longer but die cos im not alive to scatter the A hole oped **** buffs. As an archer im feeling paper thin now.
                      That must be a resistance problem then...they did fix resistance in wilds so you're gonna need the same resistance as the boss you're fighting.
                      Also, freeze never worked in wilds anyway. o:

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by UesugiAnkit View Post
                        That must be a resistance problem then...they did fix resistance in wilds so you're gonna need the same resistance as the boss you're fighting.
                        Also, freeze never worked in wilds anyway. o:
                        No never worked in wilds, but the comment was ment in general. 2 knights and an archer was what we used to use..but we cant do it with 4 now even...something is up.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Pickapath View Post
                          No never worked in wilds, but the comment was ment in general. 2 knights and an archer was what we used to use..but we cant do it with 4 now even...something is up.
                          That's because they fixed how resistance worked. Has nothing to do with DF.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by FufuBunnySlayer View Post
                            That's because they fixed how resistance worked. Has nothing to do with DF.
                            Your missing the point, DF gave archer extra turns without taking damage, now..this isnt happening. Dont matter how strong your attack is if you cant stand long enough to dish it out....hope thats clearer now. Archers die faster now as they taking more damage per turn...hence why i said df was the only balance to their weak defenses. R2 knows this, and the only solution for archers is to spend on defense more and attack less or strap a mage to their backs. Its like taking away block from knights or saying knight block will only work in Necro etc. Bollocks.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Pickapath View Post
                              Your missing the point, DF gave archer extra turns without taking damage, now..this isnt happening. Dont matter how strong your attack is if you cant stand long enough to dish it out....hope thats clearer now. Archers die faster now as they taking more damage per turn...hence why i said df was the only balance to their weak defenses. R2 knows this, and the only solution for archers is to spend on defense more and attack less or strap a mage to their backs. Its like taking away block from knights or saying knight block will only work in Necro etc. Bollocks.
                              And that would be a really good point, if virtually every solo pve boss didn't enrage to +1000% damage after a certain number of attacks, rendering defense almost irrelevant, beyond a baseline needed to not die immediately. Or even worse, in Sky Trail, where pdef & mdef actually are irrelevant. Basically, DPS is king, and archers still have the best DPS, although it's a lot less than before.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Pickapath View Post
                                Your missing the point, DF gave archer extra turns without taking damage, now..this isnt happening. Dont matter how strong your attack is if you cant stand long enough to dish it out....hope thats clearer now. Archers die faster now as they taking more damage per turn...hence why i said df was the only balance to their weak defenses. R2 knows this, and the only solution for archers is to spend on defense more and attack less or strap a mage to their backs. Its like taking away block from knights or saying knight block will only work in Necro etc. Bollocks.
                                Ah, thought you were only talking about wilds boss.

                                The only real place of relevance for DF was in solo pve. Group pve you have mages and stuff to keep you alive, and slow never worked in pvp, group or solo.

                                That leaves just Sky Trail and God's Descent, since slow still works in Necro. Sky Trail is kinda obsoleted by God's Descent. Only thing DF does there is save you HP pots, which is nice, but don't think it really affects how far you can get. I can't really make myself care about either though.

                                As for taking more damage per turn, that doesn't really matter. Survival is (usually) not the issue. (Big exception here for 3-5 Sky Trail, which hurts a lot.) The issue is the rage timers, which DF pushed back a lot. Increasing the rage timer matters very little in God's Descent because you can attack the boss up to 8 times in 30min without paying for a revive (have 5 in the tank, start battle 2min out from refresh; should get 3 free attempts while you're fighting). With that number of fights, you'll likely run into the 30min time limit of the boss more than anything else--DF won't help you there.

                                Don't think the removal of slow had anything to do with nerfing one class. Think it was nerfed for two reasons: to make the MP events more challenging (viz. NM MP dungeons, wilds bosses, Dragon Invasion, etc.) and to "balance" competitive pve events across the classes (viz. WB, God's Descent). Though if that were the case then Sky Trail should still allow slow like Necro, but...Sky Trail is obsolete anyways so who cares.

                                While it does seem silly to have multiple skills and a rune that slow and then disallow it everywhere save a couple places, I'd still rather be able to use slow in Necro than for slow not to exist. I'm assuming that's why the devs also created slow...because they wanted it to be usable in a set of very limited situations and those situations change based on time (removing slow in NM dungeons was pretty necessary way back when because we didn't have all the BR inflation stuff we have now; but now that we have it, they can disable slow again to make the level of difficulty appropriate in their eyes).
                                Last edited by FufuBunnySlayer; 08-27-2014, 05:37 PM.

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