What kind of ** is this?

[CrizzyB]

isnt this funny coming from you? you also "seem too sure of your own conclusions to contemplate the possibility of being incorrect or able to recognize any other points".
im explaining the merits of the current matching, and you keep telling that it's bad despite my explanations?
now, could you please give us the idea of the ideal matching should be? if it's random, could you please check this thread again, who is the first one suggesting the random matching?


so, which kind of matching would you prefer to prevent "lucky spots" to happen? if it's randomized, there would still be a lot of "lucky spots". if it's higher half vs lower half for the 1st matching, the 2nd battle will still be like our current 1st battle matching, because the higher half would always beat the lower half, and there will be a lot of complains about how the game is "unfair" towards weaker guilds




and this will lead to the old problem we had with CW. why bother with matching if people only wants the highest BR to pass the finals? with our current matching, this will give an illusion that even small guilds have a glimpse of hope on getting in the higher groups.
of course, what you want is highest BR will absolutely be in diamond group. so like i said, why dont we just skip the cross server BG and give the rewards on the guilds with highest BR?


on east coast servers, yes. however i believe the number is above the norm. so would you think if a motorcycle has an engine failure because it had 8 people on it is irrelevant to the design where it was supposed to be 2 people?

i was actually thinking about limiting the participants number, however this wouldnt be fair to the smaller guilds. but hey, what do we care about lower guilds, right? only the top matters, weaker guilds should just be prey to them. (/sarcasm)

Here is the current problem....assume higher BR always wins.

People who go undefeated: #1, #17, #33, #49, #65, #81, #97, #113

That would be your top 8 right there. Should #113 make finals and #16 lose every match? Should guilds #2-16 not even make finals? Doesn't make much sense.

[Arlad]

I'm beginning to think it's pointless to try to explain to you. You seem too sure of your own conclusions to contemplate the possibility of being incorrect or able to recognize any other points, but I guess I will try one more time.

isnt this funny coming from you? you also "seem too sure of your own conclusions to contemplate the possibility of being incorrect or able to recognize any other points".
im explaining the merits of the current matching, and you keep telling that it's bad despite my explanations?
now, could you please give us the idea of the ideal matching should be? if it's random, could you please check this thread again, who is the first one suggesting the random matching?

Except it's not. Based on the matching system all you'd have to be is in one of the "lucky spots".

so, which kind of matching would you prefer to prevent "lucky spots" to happen? if it's randomized, there would still be a lot of "lucky spots". if it's higher half vs lower half for the 1st matching, the 2nd battle will still be like our current 1st battle matching, because the higher half would always beat the lower half, and there will be a lot of complains about how the game is "unfair" towards weaker guilds

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The desire is to make the top group in order to have a chance at winning or at least placing in the top3. Gold group or lower is an automatic loss. The rewards are not based on placing within groups on finals. It is based on total rank. First in gold (9th place) is worse than last in diamond (8th place). (And yes it is split into 1-8, 9-16, 17-24, 25+.)

and this will lead to the old problem we had with CW. why bother with matching if people only wants the highest BR to pass the finals? with our current matching, this will give an illusion that even small guilds have a glimpse of hope on getting in the higher groups.
of course, what you want is highest BR will absolutely be in diamond group. so like i said, why dont we just skip the cross server BG and give the rewards on the guilds with highest BR?

Irrelevant because there are 135 participants.

on east coast servers, yes. however i believe the number is above the norm. so would you think if a motorcycle has an engine failure because it had 8 people on it is irrelevant to the design where it was supposed to be 2 people?

i was actually thinking about limiting the participants number, however this wouldnt be fair to the smaller guilds. but hey, what do we care about lower guilds, right? only the top matters, weaker guilds should just be prey to them. (/sarcasm)

[FufuBunnySlayer]

I'm beginning to think it's pointless to try to explain to you. You seem too sure of your own conclusions to contemplate the possibility of being incorrect or able to recognize any other points, but I guess I will try one more time.

yes, the 8/9 guilds would have perfect record, but to do that they should be great guilds so your point is moot. the possibility for a weak guild to win 4 times in a row through sheer luck is very low.

Except it's not. Based on the matching system all you'd have to be is in one of the "lucky spots".

Pitting the top ranks against each other will (assuming high BR always wins) mean that 1 beats 2. Next week 1 beats 3. Next week 1 beats 5, next week 1 beats 9. On to the finals.
But on the flip side 260 teams in FB Wartune.....you will have a case which something like #241 beats 242, then beats 243, then beats 245, then beats 249. Makes finals.

This system is stupid...the 16th best team would go winless, always facing a higher opponent each week, while one of the weakest guilds will make finals.

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people seems to forgot that every guild will go to the finals, the prelims is just to divide the groupings. those top 8(not sure about the exact number) will fight eachother in diamond group, then the next in gold, and so on. so, if the guild is really strong but got unlucky on matchings, they will fall to the gold group at least if they only lost 1 fight and win the rest prelim matches

The desire is to make the top group in order to have a chance at winning or at least placing in the top3. Gold group or lower is an automatic loss. The rewards are not based on placing within groups on finals. It is based on total rank. First in gold (9th place) is worse than last in diamond (8th place). (And yes it is split into 1-8, 9-16, 17-24, 25+.)

btw if there's like only 50 participants, there would be only 3-4 "lossless" guilds in the prelims.

Irrelevant because there are 135 participants.

[Arlad]

I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that the top8 will be made up of solely "lossless" guilds. It's not about points, it's about "Victories".

Currently 135 teams on East coast. 68 with 1-0 records after first round. 34 (at best) with 2-0 records after second round. 17 (at best) with 3-0 records after third. 8-9 (at best) with 4-0 records after fourth.

So it is possible for 8 or 9 teams to have a perfect record going into the finals, which would mean point total does not matter at all. Whether it is likely or not, we'll have to wait and see. Maybe you understand now, yes?

yes, the 8/9 guilds would have perfect record, but to do that they should be great guilds so your point is moot. the possibility for a weak guild to win 4 times in a row through sheer luck is very low.

people seems to forgot that every guild will go to the finals, the prelims is just to divide the groupings. those top 8(not sure about the exact number) will fight eachother in diamond group, then the next in gold, and so on. so, if the guild is really strong but got unlucky on matchings, they will fall to the gold group at least if they only lost 1 fight and win the rest prelim matches
now, i didnt know how the ranking in the finals will be, but if its by points 1st then group, losing at the preliminaries could be actually an advantage.

anyway, can someone help me in the numbers of participants in other timezone aside East Coast? cuz 135 participants is quite a bit higher than i expected. since the lowest limit is 24, i actually expected only 50ish.
btw if there's like only 50 participants, there would be only 3-4 "lossless" guilds in the prelims.

anyhow, like someone said we should expect some people trying to trick the matching system by making their guild's BR as low as possible in the next season. kicking inactives, mass stripping at 3 AM, etc. but this could be a double edged sword because the ranking and tie breaker are based on BR.

[FufuBunnySlayer]

if your guild is really strong and the strength difference with your opponents is not too far, even when you are losing the GB you will still able to collect 8-9k points.

I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that the top8 will be made up of solely "lossless" guilds. It's not about points, it's about "Victories".

Currently 135 teams on East coast. 68 with 1-0 records after first round. 34 (at best) with 2-0 records after second round. 17 (at best) with 3-0 records after third. 8-9 (at best) with 4-0 records after fourth.

So it is possible for 8 or 9 teams to have a perfect record going into the finals, which would mean point total does not matter at all. Whether it is likely or not, we'll have to wait and see. Maybe you understand now, yes?

[CrizzyB]

I thought it was supposed to be random after the first week.

Pitting the top ranks against each other will (assuming high BR always wins) mean that 1 beats 2. Next week 1 beats 3. Next week 1 beats 5, next week 1 beats 9. On to the finals.
But on the flip side 260 teams in FB Wartune.....you will have a case which something like #241 beats 242, then beats 243, then beats 245, then beats 249. Makes finals.

This system is stupid...the 16th best team would go winless, always facing a higher opponent each week, while one of the weakest guilds will make finals.

I guess there is some play in how many points you can score during the match, but the general prinicpal is flawed. What kind of tournament always fights the top teams in each bracket in succesive weeks?

[DanteMugetsu]

if u ask me i dont care about who u gona get matched, cos if u ask me all fall down with the tactics u can follow in this event with your guildmember!!!

looking forward to face you armorgames u destroyed r2-d2??

@op: mate u know that what u call weaker guilds will face a similar strength guild? so again for those its the same as you...the sad thing is that next xsgb guild gonna take advantage of that to avoid the powerhouses...

[ArchMageDaze]

I will check real quick and confirm that for you Arlad, but I'm almost positive it's same one from the same server.

EDIT: Yup, it did change since I last viewed it after Wb and before Arena, now our opponents are ColdFusion (400k below our BR, so hopefully another Victory!)

[Arlad]

I just find it strange that my guild faces the same opponents again in Round 2... as we outscored them by like 5k-ish points.
Don't get me wrong though, not complaining, just curious as to how this worked out.

that's actually interesting, since if you look at the ranking and schedule, you can see the 1st matched with 2nd, 3rd with 4th, and so on.

maybe different guild by same name?

[ArchMageDaze]

I just find it strange that my guild faces the same opponents again in Round 2... as we outscored them by like 5k-ish points.
Don't get me wrong though, not complaining, just curious as to how this worked out.

[Arlad]

Because there have never been valid complaints about CW matching either, heh.

It seems to still be based on points then BR for the second round, unlike CW which is points then random (?) for prelims anyways.

But I'm obviously coming at this from the direction of wanting to make top8. Really don't want to be left out because of a loss to the #1 BR when we're the #3 BR (and we'll be fighting them in match #3 in prelims, assuming we both win match #2). Hoping to beat them anyways, but would rather not chance it.

at our current CW matching? i dont think there's any real problem with it since all rounds gives same points.

like i said previously, the matching still based on points 1st. on the 2nd round there's half of the participants with 10k points, then the winners will be matched again so only a quarter(at most) of the participants has 20k points. and on the 4th rounds the winners with 30k points will be matched with similar winners again.

if your guild is really strong and the strength difference with your opponents is not too far, even when you are losing the GB you will still able to collect 8-9k points. then you will face other losers with closest point and similar strength, if you lose again despite the near same BR then you must question yourself why are you keep losing (you can blame the lag if you wanted to).

[FufuBunnySlayer]

except the prelims matching is based on the points. weaker guilds wont be collecting much points because even if they won 1st round, they will be faced with other winners. some strong guilds may lost the 1st match, but they will fought weaker guilds later thus collecting enough points to pass to the finals.

just think it's like CW's matching, but not randomized on 1st battle.

Because there have never been valid complaints about CW matching either, heh.

It seems to still be based on points then BR for the second round, unlike CW which is points then random (?) for prelims anyways.

But I'm obviously coming at this from the direction of wanting to make top8. Really don't want to be left out because of a loss to the #1 BR when we're the #3 BR (and we'll be fighting them in match #3 in prelims, assuming we both win match #2). Hoping to beat them anyways, but would rather not chance it.

[DutchQueenie]

yeah yeah.....of course, I'm the bad guy....busting our chops to have a good guild to then be penalized for it while a weaker guild will get a win due to facing a weaker one is ok with you. This system penalize good guilds by matching them....you gonna have 50% of the top 10 guilds with a loss while a guild who's ranked #40 for example can have a win. In every sports for example, you have seeds for top 5 or 10 then the rest of the draw is random...that's the way it should be here.

Yes of course you the bad guy busting your chicken chops to have good guild then be penal about it while a weaker guild will get win due to facing weaker chicken.

In the end its all complain, why not just enjoy your chicken chop and the wartune game?

In the end its all about fun so why not just enjoy and fight the good guild battle and win or lose dont matter because you still ahve your chicken chop and wartune

[R233787790]

AllStarZ Member, Tactic department!

if u ask me i dont care about who u gona get matched, cos if u ask me all fall down with the tactics u can follow in this event with your guildmember!!!

[Arlad]

If you're not ready -to be- strong, then don't act like you're strong.

wish i can upvote this 100 times.