Knight block heal vs. Mage suntora

[Draconan69]

for all that say block heal is passive and "free", have any idea how much block is needed to block at least half the hits in pvp, not even talking to the ones who say knights can self heal every turn, you are clueless, very much.

You make it sound like having high block is a sacrifice. Most players I know have high block regardless of class because 25% damage reduction when it triggers is darn nice on it's own.

[daunapu]

for all that say block heal is passive and "free", have any idea how much block is needed to block at least half the hits in pvp, not even talking to the ones who say knights can self heal every turn, you are clueless, very much.

[Zorich]

We all know Block heal is absolutely worthless now since its been nerfed to 3k hp max. So when is suntora going to be nerfed? Mages can heal 20-25k hp per action from suntora alone, not including the 3 other heals mages have. How is it fair knights can only heal 3k (if they block) but mages can heal 20k (every action) just from suntora?

1. Sunto isn't passive. It costs rage and has CD.
2. Sunto can be Purged. (if you don't carry a Purge rune, don't complain)

It always comes down to ppl complaining about heals. *sigh*

Know what, I'd GLADLY remake my character as a Knight right now, even with the reduced Passive Block-Heal. I'll take +10 Rage per action, +7% DR, +5% Crit Reduce and +20% HP over the Mage's +8% to Heals passive. I'll take the 405% Delphic that gives back 30 Rage over our big-hit that's only 295%. I'll take your never-comes-off Slow on Thrasher that lets you walk thru Necro. I'll take your 60-rage adv skill that bleeds on top of great damage.

The reason block-heal got nerfed is because, as players HPs got higher and higher, Knights were getting back 10k+ HP per block heal. And in PvP with troops, the Knight was consistently making back 20k+ Per round as a PASSIVE. No loss of action. No Rage Used. No chance to dispel. Just free HP. Over the course of a battle that'd last to the 50% bonus, these Knights were healing 120k+ HP FOR FREE. And that was then. Now, with the HP that are out there, you'd be seeing 20k+ per block-heal.

It was an insult to mages (you know, the HEALING CLASS) that they'd have to use 2 actions (Sunto, Resto) and 65 Rage to get as much healing as Knights were getting for free. So cry me a river.

[R215361131]

learn to play rae, its just you sucking not in general

[Makenshisensei]

most ppl are noobs to utilize chaos rune when mage going to heal,or to equip regen astral,or to use hades and crush puny mage(and have devour soul which heals insane when used on mage)or to use heal rune.... instead so they make whining posts like this

I've regen astral it's not proc that often, hp rune isn't enough too, even advanced lvl 4 and hades for an archer isn't that great, but it's true i would love to use it, maybe you wanna buy it for me?
Cause i still don't have Hades, but as you said i'm a noob who use chaos against mage, so maybe i'm wrong, archer should use a patksylph instead of a matksylph, i'm sorry to beeing weak AND noob :s

[Repeaters393]

most ppl are noobs to utilize chaos rune when mage going to heal,or to equip regen astral,or to use hades and crush puny mage(and have devour soul which heals insane when used on mage)or to use heal rune.... instead so they make whining posts like this

chaos not work 100% even maxed lol

[Nightfish]

most ppl are noobs to utilize chaos rune when mage going to heal,or to equip regen astral,or to use hades and crush puny mage(and have devour soul which heals insane when used on mage)or to use heal rune.... instead so they make whining posts like this

[Makenshisensei]

hmm rae7 did this to me, however i dont see her as overpowered
my herc only hit her for 100k (she healed right back up) but im half her br
players around her br can kill her im sure

I've 300K br and i can't beat a 300K mage, until i make a mage killer build (with IS/DF/Scatter) and won'thelp me a lot against archer/knight
The only way for me to win against same br mage is only if i chaos him before a heal AND it's work, with that he can't heal himself and heal me and it's an easy win
Same for a 300K knight i can't beat him, but at least against knight idc, it's supposed to be normal
(Also with a Delphic sylph crit i win sometimes against knight i shouldn't be able to win, but not happening often, sometimes they block the delphic sylph and make it deal ridiculous damage ^^)

[Brutal_Hobo]

It's supposed to balance clas
Even some 350K br mage take fun of this advantage in BG, and never attack, just sunto, heal, blessed, auto attack, till you die, cause make you waste your time is "fun" for them, cause even them know they are overpowered and we can't do anything against them

hmm rae7 did this to me, however i dont see her as overpowered
my herc only hit her for 100k (she healed right back up) but im half her br
players around her br can kill her im sure

[Brutal_Hobo]

Really knight block "should've" been nerfed to 3k like a year before we got the nerf, but someone messed that up and many noobs got used to it. Sure it would be a lot more fun healing back 10-15k + every turn and with gem event having 8 lv10 blocks gems would be easy, but like someone else said adapt to changes. It really isn't that big of a deal...

for me in BG block heal was mainly a way to top up HP on some weak player, autoattack a turn or two and full HP.

yep adapting to change is what the game is all about, the knights in my guild still keep a full block spec up, it completely reduces damage.
sylphs were dominant when they first appeared, first to sylph usually won the match
but now its completely different, runes at the right time, having the right skills, resistances etc.
game feels like i actually have to strategize more than i used to

[Makenshisensei]

It's supposed to balance class
Knight kill archer
Archer kill mage
Mage kill knight

I can't beat a knight at same br, even some lower with 20-30k br less than me destroy me, my delphic sniper hit around 10K-20k max on a knight (when it crit around 100K on a mage)

Mage can for sure destroy easily knight, knight have high hp, high pdef but not really nice mdef (compare to pdef) it's kinda a fair fight, but mage heal so much knight can't afford it and loose (like it's supposed to be)

Archer deal insane damage to mage, but still can't beat them, it was easy before the 100K br for an archer to destroy a mage, now i can't beat a mage with lower br than me (same as knight) even i deal twice their damage, they heal also twice the damage i dealt

So i think knight are nice, archer have the lowest resist and can't heal, mage deal nice damage, heal badly

So they must nerf mage to let the kill knight and loose against archer, or up archer to let them win against mage but still loose against knight

(In bg i don't kill class i kill br, if they have low br i can kill them, same br it's depend of crit against archer, and can't beat the other)

I'm talking about always same br fight, of course as archer i've kill knight AND mage with 60-100K less br easily, and sometimes with a bit of luck 30k less br i win by a lucky crit (in sylph only)


So yes the knight block heal was sad for the class but they are still really strong, a class can't kill all the other class normaly (but actually it's what the mage can do)
Also 3K is nice why? Archer at same br as the knight will hit around 6K with auto/basic attack, you want a 10K heal to be sure any archer can win and also always finish with 100% hp ?
Even some 350K br mage take fun of this advantage in BG, and never attack, just sunto, heal, blessed, auto attack, till you die, cause make you waste your time is "fun" for them, cause even them know they are overpowered and we can't do anything against them

Also as you where talking about heal, knight heal in passive, for nothing have lot of hp and pdef/mdef
Mage have lot of mdef low hp but heal a lot for rage cost
Archer don't have any mdef/pdef but nice hp, and have one skill heal based on ennemy pdef it give back between 20k hp and 60k hp
On average fight knight heal the less, but also take less damage than the other and have more hp than the other
The balance system was good at start but i still think mage are overpowered due to heal power (they can heal their full life with one heal, plus a hot who heal them in 6 turn for barely one other full bar of their hp)

So if we make the calcule of how many hp the 3 class have based on the damage they take, the damage they dealt and the heal they can do

I think archer/knight have the same ratio and mage have the same as archer+knight amount

(500K hp kight who take lowerest hit heal with few 3k, approx 750k hp pool/damage reduc/heal 1M with heal rune on 59sec fight)
(400K hp archer who take lot of damage with 2 blood at 50k, approx 750K hp/damage reduc/heal 1M with heal rune on 59sec fight)
(350K hp mage who take lot of physical damage barely no magical damage, with Sunto and self heal, 1M200k hp/damage reduc/heal 1M400K with heal rune on a 59 sec fight)

If we count sylph mage often use dark sylph who heal himself too, so it increase their HP pool to make them able to reach close of the 2M hp pool for same br fight

(Edit : The math isn't right for any class, i've just say average stats, it's kinda close to that but not exactly that, maybe the mage are less op than i've said, but i'm sure they are still in front of the 2 other class)

Also i don't say their heal should be nerfed, we need this huge amount of heal for our high hp bar in mp/spire/di/sylph boss etc and prob futur content
Mage must be op with high heal, and high hp to survive to some big attack from player and monster
But maybe lower their pdef/mdef or make something to let them take a bit more damage, from all source
(Even i think for PVE content they don't need hp, all monster, all boss, all event, evrything is magic damage, with their high mdef they are kinda god evrywhere :s)

[Wraithraiser]

block heal should have been nerfed, just not to 3k, maybe ~10k
the only reason they did it because there are people in china with over 1m hp, knights would be invincible otherwise

Really knight block "should've" been nerfed to 3k like a year before we got the nerf, but someone messed that up and many noobs got used to it. Sure it would be a lot more fun healing back 10-15k + every turn and with gem event having 8 lv10 blocks gems would be easy, but like someone else said adapt to changes. It really isn't that big of a deal...

for me in BG block heal was mainly a way to top up HP on some weak player, autoattack a turn or two and full HP.

[Brutal_Hobo]

question is, not mage's sunt too OP (and I warn you don't nerf it!), just our block heal too useless, so in this case you should ask r2 to add back block heal instead of asking r2 to nerf mage

block heal should have been nerfed, just not to 3k, maybe ~10k
the only reason they did it because there are people in china with over 1m hp, knights would be invincible otherwise

[kimwong]

question is, not mage's sunt too OP (and I warn you don't nerf it!), just our block heal too useless, so in this case you should ask r2 to add back block heal instead of asking r2 to nerf mage

[MSEngel]

Actually as Archer the problem is when the mage does crit-heal-resto him/herself for 250k+ woot, lol.
Suntoria is fine (neither i'm arguing against resto and crit healing that was an example).