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Knight block heal vs. Mage suntora

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  • #16
    Originally posted by kimwong View Post
    question is, not mage's sunt too OP (and I warn you don't nerf it!), just our block heal too useless, so in this case you should ask r2 to add back block heal instead of asking r2 to nerf mage

    block heal should have been nerfed, just not to 3k, maybe ~10k
    the only reason they did it because there are people in china with over 1m hp, knights would be invincible otherwise
    IGN/Server: Crusader Kabam 62
    Class: Archer
    Battle Rating: 275k (with herc br)

    Guild: Black Lotus
    Sylph: Hercules ★★ 46968
    Originally posted by Wraithraiser
    but yeah. Robo_Hobo for presidente

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Brutal_Hobo View Post
      block heal should have been nerfed, just not to 3k, maybe ~10k
      the only reason they did it because there are people in china with over 1m hp, knights would be invincible otherwise
      Really knight block "should've" been nerfed to 3k like a year before we got the nerf, but someone messed that up and many noobs got used to it. Sure it would be a lot more fun healing back 10-15k + every turn and with gem event having 8 lv10 blocks gems would be easy, but like someone else said adapt to changes. It really isn't that big of a deal...

      for me in BG block heal was mainly a way to top up HP on some weak player, autoattack a turn or two and full HP.

      Comment


      • #18
        It's supposed to balance class
        Knight kill archer
        Archer kill mage
        Mage kill knight

        I can't beat a knight at same br, even some lower with 20-30k br less than me destroy me, my delphic sniper hit around 10K-20k max on a knight (when it crit around 100K on a mage)

        Mage can for sure destroy easily knight, knight have high hp, high pdef but not really nice mdef (compare to pdef) it's kinda a fair fight, but mage heal so much knight can't afford it and loose (like it's supposed to be)

        Archer deal insane damage to mage, but still can't beat them, it was easy before the 100K br for an archer to destroy a mage, now i can't beat a mage with lower br than me (same as knight) even i deal twice their damage, they heal also twice the damage i dealt

        So i think knight are nice, archer have the lowest resist and can't heal, mage deal nice damage, heal badly

        So they must nerf mage to let the kill knight and loose against archer, or up archer to let them win against mage but still loose against knight

        (In bg i don't kill class i kill br, if they have low br i can kill them, same br it's depend of crit against archer, and can't beat the other)

        I'm talking about always same br fight, of course as archer i've kill knight AND mage with 60-100K less br easily, and sometimes with a bit of luck 30k less br i win by a lucky crit (in sylph only)


        So yes the knight block heal was sad for the class but they are still really strong, a class can't kill all the other class normaly (but actually it's what the mage can do)
        Also 3K is nice why? Archer at same br as the knight will hit around 6K with auto/basic attack, you want a 10K heal to be sure any archer can win and also always finish with 100% hp ?
        Even some 350K br mage take fun of this advantage in BG, and never attack, just sunto, heal, blessed, auto attack, till you die, cause make you waste your time is "fun" for them, cause even them know they are overpowered and we can't do anything against them

        Also as you where talking about heal, knight heal in passive, for nothing have lot of hp and pdef/mdef
        Mage have lot of mdef low hp but heal a lot for rage cost
        Archer don't have any mdef/pdef but nice hp, and have one skill heal based on ennemy pdef it give back between 20k hp and 60k hp
        On average fight knight heal the less, but also take less damage than the other and have more hp than the other
        The balance system was good at start but i still think mage are overpowered due to heal power (they can heal their full life with one heal, plus a hot who heal them in 6 turn for barely one other full bar of their hp)

        So if we make the calcule of how many hp the 3 class have based on the damage they take, the damage they dealt and the heal they can do

        I think archer/knight have the same ratio and mage have the same as archer+knight amount

        (500K hp kight who take lowerest hit heal with few 3k, approx 750k hp pool/damage reduc/heal 1M with heal rune on 59sec fight)
        (400K hp archer who take lot of damage with 2 blood at 50k, approx 750K hp/damage reduc/heal 1M with heal rune on 59sec fight)
        (350K hp mage who take lot of physical damage barely no magical damage, with Sunto and self heal, 1M200k hp/damage reduc/heal 1M400K with heal rune on a 59 sec fight)

        If we count sylph mage often use dark sylph who heal himself too, so it increase their HP pool to make them able to reach close of the 2M hp pool for same br fight

        (Edit : The math isn't right for any class, i've just say average stats, it's kinda close to that but not exactly that, maybe the mage are less op than i've said, but i'm sure they are still in front of the 2 other class)

        Also i don't say their heal should be nerfed, we need this huge amount of heal for our high hp bar in mp/spire/di/sylph boss etc and prob futur content
        Mage must be op with high heal, and high hp to survive to some big attack from player and monster
        But maybe lower their pdef/mdef or make something to let them take a bit more damage, from all source
        (Even i think for PVE content they don't need hp, all monster, all boss, all event, evrything is magic damage, with their high mdef they are kinda god evrywhere :s)
        Last edited by Makenshisensei; 11-13-2014, 07:42 AM.
        Noob Archer, Low Br, Can't complete anything, Useless ..... but still here on S181

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Wraithraiser View Post
          Really knight block "should've" been nerfed to 3k like a year before we got the nerf, but someone messed that up and many noobs got used to it. Sure it would be a lot more fun healing back 10-15k + every turn and with gem event having 8 lv10 blocks gems would be easy, but like someone else said adapt to changes. It really isn't that big of a deal...

          for me in BG block heal was mainly a way to top up HP on some weak player, autoattack a turn or two and full HP.
          yep adapting to change is what the game is all about, the knights in my guild still keep a full block spec up, it completely reduces damage.
          sylphs were dominant when they first appeared, first to sylph usually won the match
          but now its completely different, runes at the right time, having the right skills, resistances etc.
          game feels like i actually have to strategize more than i used to
          IGN/Server: Crusader Kabam 62
          Class: Archer
          Battle Rating: 275k (with herc br)

          Guild: Black Lotus
          Sylph: Hercules ★★ 46968
          Originally posted by Wraithraiser
          but yeah. Robo_Hobo for presidente

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Makenshisensei View Post
            It's supposed to balance clas
            Even some 350K br mage take fun of this advantage in BG, and never attack, just sunto, heal, blessed, auto attack, till you die, cause make you waste your time is "fun" for them, cause even them know they are overpowered and we can't do anything against them
            hmm rae7 did this to me, however i dont see her as overpowered
            my herc only hit her for 100k (she healed right back up) but im half her br
            players around her br can kill her im sure
            IGN/Server: Crusader Kabam 62
            Class: Archer
            Battle Rating: 275k (with herc br)

            Guild: Black Lotus
            Sylph: Hercules ★★ 46968
            Originally posted by Wraithraiser
            but yeah. Robo_Hobo for presidente

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Brutal_Hobo View Post
              hmm rae7 did this to me, however i dont see her as overpowered
              my herc only hit her for 100k (she healed right back up) but im half her br
              players around her br can kill her im sure
              I've 300K br and i can't beat a 300K mage, until i make a mage killer build (with IS/DF/Scatter) and won'thelp me a lot against archer/knight
              The only way for me to win against same br mage is only if i chaos him before a heal AND it's work, with that he can't heal himself and heal me and it's an easy win
              Same for a 300K knight i can't beat him, but at least against knight idc, it's supposed to be normal
              (Also with a Delphic sylph crit i win sometimes against knight i shouldn't be able to win, but not happening often, sometimes they block the delphic sylph and make it deal ridiculous damage ^^)
              Noob Archer, Low Br, Can't complete anything, Useless ..... but still here on S181

              Comment


              • #22
                most ppl are noobs to utilize chaos rune when mage going to heal,or to equip regen astral,or to use hades and crush puny mage(and have devour soul which heals insane when used on mage)or to use heal rune.... instead so they make whining posts like this

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Nightfish View Post
                  most ppl are noobs to utilize chaos rune when mage going to heal,or to equip regen astral,or to use hades and crush puny mage(and have devour soul which heals insane when used on mage)or to use heal rune.... instead so they make whining posts like this
                  chaos not work 100% even maxed lol

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Nightfish View Post
                    most ppl are noobs to utilize chaos rune when mage going to heal,or to equip regen astral,or to use hades and crush puny mage(and have devour soul which heals insane when used on mage)or to use heal rune.... instead so they make whining posts like this
                    I've regen astral it's not proc that often, hp rune isn't enough too, even advanced lvl 4 and hades for an archer isn't that great, but it's true i would love to use it, maybe you wanna buy it for me?
                    Cause i still don't have Hades, but as you said i'm a noob who use chaos against mage, so maybe i'm wrong, archer should use a patksylph instead of a matksylph, i'm sorry to beeing weak AND noob :s
                    Noob Archer, Low Br, Can't complete anything, Useless ..... but still here on S181

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      learn to play rae, its just you sucking not in general

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Jvillain View Post
                        We all know Block heal is absolutely worthless now since its been nerfed to 3k hp max. So when is suntora going to be nerfed? Mages can heal 20-25k hp per action from suntora alone, not including the 3 other heals mages have. How is it fair knights can only heal 3k (if they block) but mages can heal 20k (every action) just from suntora?
                        1. Sunto isn't passive. It costs rage and has CD.
                        2. Sunto can be Purged. (if you don't carry a Purge rune, don't complain)

                        It always comes down to ppl complaining about heals. *sigh*

                        Know what, I'd GLADLY remake my character as a Knight right now, even with the reduced Passive Block-Heal. I'll take +10 Rage per action, +7% DR, +5% Crit Reduce and +20% HP over the Mage's +8% to Heals passive. I'll take the 405% Delphic that gives back 30 Rage over our big-hit that's only 295%. I'll take your never-comes-off Slow on Thrasher that lets you walk thru Necro. I'll take your 60-rage adv skill that bleeds on top of great damage.

                        The reason block-heal got nerfed is because, as players HPs got higher and higher, Knights were getting back 10k+ HP per block heal. And in PvP with troops, the Knight was consistently making back 20k+ Per round as a PASSIVE. No loss of action. No Rage Used. No chance to dispel. Just free HP. Over the course of a battle that'd last to the 50% bonus, these Knights were healing 120k+ HP FOR FREE. And that was then. Now, with the HP that are out there, you'd be seeing 20k+ per block-heal.

                        It was an insult to mages (you know, the HEALING CLASS) that they'd have to use 2 actions (Sunto, Resto) and 65 Rage to get as much healing as Knights were getting for free. So cry me a river.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          for all that say block heal is passive and "free", have any idea how much block is needed to block at least half the hits in pvp, not even talking to the ones who say knights can self heal every turn, you are clueless, very much.
                          THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE'S JUST ME.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by daunapu View Post
                            for all that say block heal is passive and "free", have any idea how much block is needed to block at least half the hits in pvp, not even talking to the ones who say knights can self heal every turn, you are clueless, very much.
                            You make it sound like having high block is a sacrifice. Most players I know have high block regardless of class because 25% damage reduction when it triggers is darn nice on it's own.

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                            • #29
                              First of , all class have near same hp for same br (depend on your build)
                              All class have block ( and block is same for all class )
                              Agoran shield is 20%hp buff that can be ss
                              Apollo shield is 30% reduce damage that can be ss
                              Sunto is 6% geal per turn that can be ss ( sunto is much more of a group skill than solo)
                              Adv guardian rune is 70% red dam for 4 turn cant be ss!!!( 70% ok but at least make it so we can ss it) and only archer and mage can use it !!!!
                              Incendiary arrow reduce 30% of damage

                              Incendiary is same a apollo shield !!! Sunto is the mage skill that help him in the same way
                              Agoran is the ''heal skill'' of knight but can be ss
                              Heal cap not a big deal but
                              Once all have max adv guardian rune knight will have real difficulty again other class since they dont have the rune
                              Other than that the skill are pretty much balance and it coming. From a knight
                              Ive adapt to cap block heal and it ok , but guardian rune can be cast a same time of delphic ( and it will be the rune that tAke effect first) and in pvp sylph mode dont give you 5 min to cast delphic cause of lag so you cant wait too long

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Kagura1080 View Post
                                First of , all class have near same hp for same br (depend on your build)
                                All class have block ( and block is same for all class )
                                Agoran shield is 20%hp buff that can be ss
                                Apollo shield is 30% reduce damage that can be ss
                                Sunto is 6% geal per turn that can be ss ( sunto is much more of a group skill than solo)
                                Adv guardian rune is 70% red dam for 4 turn cant be ss!!!( 70% ok but at least make it so we can ss it) and only archer and mage can use it !!!!
                                Incendiary arrow reduce 30% of damage

                                Incendiary is same a apollo shield !!! Sunto is the mage skill that help him in the same way
                                Agoran is the ''heal skill'' of knight but can be ss
                                Heal cap not a big deal but
                                Once all have max adv guardian rune knight will have real difficulty again other class since they dont have the rune
                                Other than that the skill are pretty much balance and it coming. From a knight
                                Ive adapt to cap block heal and it ok , but guardian rune can be cast a same time of delphic ( and it will be the rune that tAke effect first) and in pvp sylph mode dont give you 5 min to cast delphic cause of lag so you cant wait too long
                                1. No, they don't. Mages miss the 20% hp passive that archers and knights have. Similar BR mages should have significantly less max HP (then heals turn that into more hp than a knight or archer could ever hope to have in 1 fight).
                                3. No one brings SS to 1v1 pvp. No one.
                                4. No one brings SS to 1v1 pvp. No one.
                                6. Lasts 2 turns, not 4. Yeah, knights got the shaft here.

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