Knights get only 3 advance runes

[SlowPlay]

1. So he did not use Shock Chain and still managed to get that 330k damage??
2. He used a delphic before 50%, so why are you saying NO ONE uses delph before 50%? Maybe your battle was not a real pvp??
3. Using Brutal's idea of using apollo and agoran, something like this would happen:

If he delphed at 50%, then the 330k would become 495k, we will round it to 500k.
Of course, since you have only 400k hp, you would be OHKO.
But if you used apollo and agoran, the 500k damage would be reduced to 270k (150k damage reduced from apollo and 80k reduced from agoran, total of 230k hp).

You would survive his delph at 50 % with 130k hp left, then use heal rune, healing you 120k hp (normal level 10 rune), and you would still have half hp left.

So I still think Brutal has a point, since an archer cannot use scatter in sylph form.

I have tried using his idea/tactic, so far, it works good, but it does not kill the enemy fast, which I do not like, since a waste of time..

As i said he was sure to oneshot me that's why it wasn't a real pvp, too much confidence on his side.
Anyway your math is correct but u suppose quite a bit of stuff that ain't gonna happen.

1st u suppose i'd be full hp when he hit me with his delphic, either i heal before delphic to be full hp when he hit me or after (if i survive)
2nd u forgot shock chain make apollo useless
3rd if you were an archer on sylph form against a knight that as soon as u go pet use shield then apollo, what would u do? While in pet form u get basically no damage from a player not in sylph form so he'd just need to waste 3/4 turn and hit delphic when knight is forced to go sylph, doing that he'll also get a damage buff of at least 20% (probably 30% due to sylphs attacks), try to add those stuff to your math and tell me how would u survive on 50%, with 30% mdef debuff and opponent with let's say 20% damage buff.

A knight used this strategy against me today in bg (was surelly lower but not too much, was doing 20k us on him) and i didn't even had to use delphic.

[Kingryan]

As i said he was sure to oneshot me that's why it wasn't a real pvp, too much confidence on his side.
Anyway your math is correct but u suppose quite a bit of stuff that ain't gonna happen.

1st u suppose i'd be full hp when he hit me with his delphic, either i heal before delphic to be full hp when he hit me or after (if i survive)
2nd u forgot shock chain make apollo useless
3rd if you were an archer on sylph form against a knight that as soon as u go pet use shield then apollo, what would u do? While in pet form u get basically no damage from a player not in sylph form so he'd just need to waste 3/4 turn and hit delphic when knight is forced to go sylph, doing that he'll also get a damage buff of at least 20% (probably 30% due to sylphs attacks), try to add those stuff to your math and tell me how would u survive on 50%, with 30% mdef debuff and opponent with let's say 20% damage buff.

A knight used this strategy against me today in bg (was surelly lower but not too much, was doing 20k us on him) and i didn't even had to use delphic.

Well, since u said that your battle was not real pvp, and you said in other comment that no one does that in real pvp, then it means that only few players are able to manage to get that 330k delph damage with no shock chain and not yet in 50%... So why the heck are you using that one and only battle to prove that Brutal's idea is useless and will make you defeat all of the time? Pfft...

1. You just need to have more than half hp to survive the delph. Archer attacks are basically weak to knights, since it is patk, so you will be able to retain sustainable hp until he awakens and use shock chain and some skill before he delphs.
2. Shock chain debuff can be purified, and Actually, it is apollo shield that will make shock chain debuff useless.
3. Do I need to give a scenario with that same archer that you "always battle 10 times per bg"? Of course, you will not let the battle drag to 1 minute, since you can defeat him anyways unless it goes to 50% timer.

I tried using Brutal's idea to an archer 10k br above me, and I won, with around 2/3 - 3/4 hp left.

[DanteMugetsu]

Well, since u said that your battle was not real pvp, and you said in other comment that no one does that in real pvp, then it means that only few players are able to manage to get that 330k delph damage with no shock chain and not yet in 50%... So why the heck are you using that one and only battle to prove that Brutal's idea is useless and will make you defeat all of the time? Pfft...

1. You just need to have more than half hp to survive the delph. Archer attacks are basically weak to knights, since it is patk, so you will be able to retain sustainable hp until he awakens and use shock chain and some skill before he delphs.
2. Shock chain debuff can be purified, and Actually, it is apollo shield that will make shock chain debuff useless.
3. Do I need to give a scenario with that same archer that you "always battle 10 times per bg"? Of course, you will not let the battle drag to 1 minute, since you can defeat him anyways unless it goes to 50% timer.

I tried using Brutal's idea to an archer 10k br above me, and I won, with around 2/3 - 3/4 hp left.

i am in the same guild with slowplay since january of 2013 (i beat him without astrals on, he sucks at pvp :P)...let me tell you one thing...you cant win with this guy in a conv...he is a stubborn hag...most of the times he is right i agree, and on ur debate i agree with him. i also agree that agoran/apollo is a good strategy but can be easilly beaten especially with purge rune from other knights

[Brutal_Hobo]

i am in the same guild with slowplay since january of 2013 (i beat him without astrals on, he sucks at pvp :P)...let me tell you one thing...you cant win with this guy in a conv...he is a stubborn hag...most of the times he is right i agree, and on ur debate i agree with him. i also agree that agoran/apollo is a good strategy but can be easilly beaten especially with purge rune from other knights

well yeah strategy would be useless against a knight since they would carry a purge
mages tend to carry guardian and chaos/amnesia/rage from my experience
dont usually bring purge

today
i was in a fight
4v1 gb (i went to a weaker guild to make gb more fun, so it was against decent opponents)

i was winning

got it down to 2v1, then what got me was an amnesia rune level 10

i could of easily won that fight
amnesia took out both my delphic and guardian rune
next thing you know it, double delphic in 100%

my point here is
amnesia imo is the best defense against guardian rune

attack is the best defense
but the knight apollo, shield strategy works too
i lost to a similar br knight in bg today who did that
got me 3 attacks in 50% 2 in 100%
he had really high electro resist

[Kingryan]

i am in the same guild with slowplay since january of 2013 (i beat him without astrals on, he sucks at pvp :P)...let me tell you one thing...you cant win with this guy in a conv...he is a stubborn hag...most of the times he is right i agree, and on ur debate i agree with him. i also agree that agoran/apollo is a good strategy but can be easilly beaten especially with purge rune from other knights

Yeah, but this is about knight vs archer.. And archer cannot use scatter when in sylph form.

[TjiTzUr]

I assume you have 400k hp since you won against someone who delph you for 330k.
If you used apollo then agoran, the damage would be reduced from 330k to 150k and you would just heal it back with a heal rune.

Then since he delph, it means he will go back to human form when the 50%timer comes, while you will become a sylph, and you will have a high chance of defeating him... Human forms have weaker defense than sylph form.

I think Brutal has a point...

it dosen matter with what u are saying for the shiled can get removed from 1-2 hits and then its east to win for normal u time it so u have ur delphic at 50% and the only way to win for a warrior is to be luckey with astals or just have 50k+ br over the other guy... and when ur at 400k+ br it dosen realy matter if ur astals dosen tricker then u will always lose as a warrior if the ppl is same br

[DanteMugetsu]

Yeah, but this is about knight vs archer.. And archer cannot use scatter when in sylph form.

when did this thread went to archer vs knight???i thought knights were whinning again cause they got the short stick...if a knight of same br (when i say br count astrals/pets etc dont misuse my words) loses to an archer then something is wrong with his build or his/her brain...

[Kingryan]

when did this thread went to archer vs knight???i thought knights were whinning again cause they got the short stick...if a knight of same br (when i say br count astrals/pets etc dont misuse my words) loses to an archer then something is wrong with his build or his/her brain...

When? Then read the thread.. it was when Slowplay said something about Brutal's archer being beaten by his guild master's knight.

Ugh, i feel tired dragging this further.

[princestewii]

when did this thread went to archer vs knight???i thought knights were whinning again cause they got the short stick...if a knight of same br (when i say br count astrals/pets etc dont misuse my words) loses to an archer then something is wrong with his build or his/her brain...

I beat knights 20k br higher than me, the thing they forget to do is build their defenses. They keep getting way to much hp and when I hit them I do major damage

[daunapu]

I beat knights 20k br higher than me, the thing they forget to do is build their defenses. They keep getting way to much hp and when I hit them I do major damage

I find this kinda hard to believe, ofc anyone can win almost any fight with some luck. As a knight i have afk killed few archers in bg with around my br, got some luck on astrals ofc but it was funny to see them try anything against me while i just auto hit kill them.

[FufuBunnySlayer]

I find this kinda hard to believe, ofc anyone can win almost any fight with some luck. As a knight i have afk killed few archers in bg with around my br, got some luck on astrals ofc but it was funny to see them try anything against me while i just auto hit kill them.

>_> uh wut

I fail to see how this is possible with similar BR players. I mean...I'm sure Bago (600k+ knight) or Pipster (w/e BR he is) could afk kill me pretty easily (~450k archer here). But...similar BR knight wouldn't stand a chance. As soon as the archer slyphs, the knight dies if afk.

So bragfail, I guess? unless your illusion, regen, and deflection proc'd like mad. If you illu and deflect every hit, it's impossible to lose...but I have yet to see that happen.

As it stands now, I can beat knights with a good BR adv on me a good bit of the time based on timing and guard rune. Sometimes I make a mistake and lose. Sometimes I don't, and I win. Sometimes even with guard rune, the BR adv is too great of a factor. Regardless...same br vs. same br, the afk player always loses barring impossible luck.

[Brutal_Hobo]

Regardless...same br vs. same br, the afk player always loses barring impossible luck.

yeah lol even if way higher i had some mage attack me in bg the other week, i think he had like 350k br
orange herc
he thought it would be funny to afk me and brag about it in current chat
you could imagine his embarrassment when it said "Crusader has ended (xxxx) killing Spree"

i dont think he talked again lol

[kimwong]

yeah lol even if way higher i had some mage attack me in bg the other week, i think he had like 350k br
orange herc
he thought it would be funny to afk me and brag about it in current chat
you could imagine his embarrassment when it said "Crusader has ended (xxxx) killing Spree"

i dont think he talked again lol

hahahaha

yesterday I also defeat a 440K BR with luck, for sylph last 3 turns he didn't do any attack

at last I defeat him with 30K HP left XD

[daunapu]

>_> uh wut

I fail to see how this is possible with similar BR players. I mean...I'm sure Bago (600k+ knight) or Pipster (w/e BR he is) could afk kill me pretty easily (~450k archer here). But...similar BR knight wouldn't stand a chance. As soon as the archer slyphs, the knight dies if afk.

So bragfail, I guess? unless your illusion, regen, and deflection proc'd like mad. If you illu and deflect every hit, it's impossible to lose...but I have yet to see that happen.

As it stands now, I can beat knights with a good BR adv on me a good bit of the time based on timing and guard rune. Sometimes I make a mistake and lose. Sometimes I don't, and I win. Sometimes even with guard rune, the BR adv is too great of a factor. Regardless...same br vs. same br, the afk player always loses barring impossible luck.

Lets talk about br. FE i have only 4 br astrals, just like many knights, so my actual strength is kinda higher than what numbers show compared to people who drool on numbers and stack br. And i said i had luck, big luck, with 1-2 from each of regeneration, illusion and deflection procs vs your none, add the lvl 10 guardian angel vs archers, yes i have killed few archers afk, few.

Bragging? I couldnt care less what you or anyone here thinks about me, if i wanted to brag id add my br, my sylph, my CW achievements and more other useless **** to my signature, just like some.

The point was archers still are inferior to knights, sometimes it even becomes comical.

[princestewii]

I find this kinda hard to believe, ofc anyone can win almost any fight with some luck. As a knight i have afk killed few archers in bg with around my br, got some luck on astrals ofc but it was funny to see them try anything against me while i just auto hit kill them.

The point I was making is that those knights were just adding hp and forgetting to build on their main stats like defense. If I see a tanky knight with an iris/triton and they have high electro resist 8/10 times I know I will lose if they take all the hits then heal after. There was this one knight who would just take my kill streaks in bgs just to heal because he knew his defence was too much for me.

So to what this thread is about, there are many ways to adapt to not having certain things in the game. If knights want the guardian rune gone for other classes, then the other classes should not get a puri rune and same with a purg rune. I feel that would be fair so there would be a need for each when doing MP runs or will everyone start to whine and complain with what I say.