magic's heal

[TjiTzUr]

why is it that magic's got atleast 2 heals that heal 80%+ ea time and on the same time they get heal rune and gard?

where is the fairness in that for in late game u can only win agenst a magic if u can 1shot kill them or be luckey to hit them with a L10 asmenea rune

[pietjeprecies]

Mages are supposed to heal, knights are supposed to tank and archers are supposed to deal damage or am I wrong ?
Every class has weakness and strenghts, every class is good in certain situations while other suck, that's the natural way of the game.
I've seen many games that were ruined because developers tried to "make the classes more balanced" it felt like it doesn't matter what class you play, mage archer knight or whatever they all were the same making the idea of having classes pointless.

What is there to tank for a knight in pvp?
What is the point of the high damage archers are dealing,
when the opponent's just doing laundry and dishes meanwhile and only have to click on heal every now and then?

I dont mind mage;s heal, but recovering 300k hp 3 times in 1 battle thats just going over " the natural way of the game"

[TjiTzUr]

Perhaps you quoted the wrong post; your response is somewhat illogical. Where in that post did I mention PvE? Not once. My only mention of Triton/Iris was that its the one sylph heal devil's gaze works on.

I did mention PvE in another post and here's how it affects PvP: The vast majority of PvE rewards in the game are based on dps, an archer specialty; they get further in necro faster (more chances at getting higher level gem scroll drops), they get more gold/daru from world boss (more free stuff from wilds shop, even if daru options usually suck and more gold = faster astral development, faster armor enchantment, faster enchants for sylph gear if you have the other materials), they have an easier time with God's Decent (more likely to get first kill rewards and can often get further without cashing), and an easier time in Sky Trail (more S ranking rewards and more rewards at lower BR). The easier access to PvE rewards for archers lets them build up their toons faster. All of that stuff gives archers an edge in PvP. Archers are pretty much the kings of free BR growth. For any other class to grow as fast as an archer, they have to cash.

As far as Triton goes, it is more of a support sylph. It is a solid choice for 4 vs 4 arena (crit heal spam full heals my team and that stun is pretty nice when it procs). It isn't as good in 1 vs 1, but Triton does have a few things going for it, especially with archer's high crit rate and battle prowess passive. Fewer bother with water resistance, while many have high electro and dark res because those are the most popular sylphs. This allows Triton to hit many harder just from lack of resistance. Add to that archer's battle prowess buff and Triton dps at start of sylph turn can be much higher than an opponent expects. Pretty much, it isn't as easy to win in 1 vs 1 without the boring cookie cutter build so many use (much easier than using your brain; just copy everyone else, then whine when you don't do it as well), but if played well, the combo of archer dps/debuffs and Triton heal spam is pretty potent.

This is a strategy game. There are some builds that are considered the most effective and tons of people use those same handful of builds. If the opponent is too strong, strategy doesn't matter because you'll be crushed no matter what you do. If they are substantially weaker than you, strategy also doesn't matter as much because no matter how badly you play, you'll win through sheer OP. Its when BRs are close enough to make as "fair" a fight as you'll get in this game that strategy becomes most important. Those who use their runes/skills the most effectively will often win (luck based astrals can sometimes steal that win, but if you have to rely on luck for your wins, you'll fail a lot). That is why I say that if you are losing to mages near your BR, you should look at their stats, your build and your strategy. Chances are that either you've got a lot of fluff BR, making you think your toon is stronger than it is, or you're simply being outplayed by people who have better strategy than you.

u still dont get anything for for u saying that triton solve the problem but when ur 400-500k+ same br u can't with with it+ when u meet a magic in that br they have 2 heal skills that can heal them for 80-100% we a talking abut 300k+ heal where dose u think thats fair... what im saying is that it almost impossble for a archer to win over a magic now because of that heal even if u try to counter theres gard rune for at some time u will run out of hp or get forced to use ur heal rune and when that happen they can easy win because u have to 1hit kills them og get a dobble hit in on pet skills.

[KS222]

u never gonna win anything when u come at 400k+ br with triton so dont know why u wasting ur time with it.... and where did i complain about pve im talking about pvp where magic's are gods when u get atleast 400k+ and archer getting weaks.

Perhaps you quoted the wrong post; your response is somewhat illogical. Where in that post did I mention PvE? Not once. My only mention of Triton/Iris was that its the one sylph heal devil's gaze works on.

I did mention PvE in another post and here's how it affects PvP: The vast majority of PvE rewards in the game are based on dps, an archer specialty; they get further in necro faster (more chances at getting higher level gem scroll drops), they get more gold/daru from world boss (more free stuff from wilds shop, even if daru options usually suck and more gold = faster astral development, faster armor enchantment, faster enchants for sylph gear if you have the other materials), they have an easier time with God's Decent (more likely to get first kill rewards and can often get further without cashing), and an easier time in Sky Trail (more S ranking rewards and more rewards at lower BR). The easier access to PvE rewards for archers lets them build up their toons faster. All of that stuff gives archers an edge in PvP. Archers are pretty much the kings of free BR growth. For any other class to grow as fast as an archer, they have to cash.

As far as Triton goes, it is more of a support sylph. It is a solid choice for 4 vs 4 arena (crit heal spam full heals my team and that stun is pretty nice when it procs). It isn't as good in 1 vs 1, but Triton does have a few things going for it, especially with archer's high crit rate and battle prowess passive. Fewer bother with water resistance, while many have high electro and dark res because those are the most popular sylphs. This allows Triton to hit many harder just from lack of resistance. Add to that archer's battle prowess buff and Triton dps at start of sylph turn can be much higher than an opponent expects. Pretty much, it isn't as easy to win in 1 vs 1 without the boring cookie cutter build so many use (much easier than using your brain; just copy everyone else, then whine when you don't do it as well), but if played well, the combo of archer dps/debuffs and Triton heal spam is pretty potent.

This is a strategy game. There are some builds that are considered the most effective and tons of people use those same handful of builds. If the opponent is too strong, strategy doesn't matter because you'll be crushed no matter what you do. If they are substantially weaker than you, strategy also doesn't matter as much because no matter how badly you play, you'll win through sheer OP. Its when BRs are close enough to make as "fair" a fight as you'll get in this game that strategy becomes most important. Those who use their runes/skills the most effectively will often win (luck based astrals can sometimes steal that win, but if you have to rely on luck for your wins, you'll fail a lot). That is why I say that if you are losing to mages near your BR, you should look at their stats, your build and your strategy. Chances are that either you've got a lot of fluff BR, making you think your toon is stronger than it is, or you're simply being outplayed by people who have better strategy than you.

[TjiTzUr]

Such a complaint seems kind of silly to me. Guardian rune lasts only a few turns, even when maxed. If it was a longer lasting buff or had a shorter cd, I'd agree that its OP, but as is, it costs a lot of resources to get it maxed and it really has to be timed right to work. If you use it too soon or go for amnesia instead to nerf the person's sylph round, then you have to tank their hits without guardian.
Long as we're all whining though, here's what I think is **:
Iris/Triton and mage heals are debuffed by Devil's Gaze. Apollo/Athena, Herc, Cerberus, and rune heals are not affected at all by Devil's Gaze. I'm glad Devil's Gaze is a hard hit and useful in that regard even when it can't debuff the heals available to other classes, but why is the skill so broken? I know not all skills work on all abilities (lots of things SS can't debuff), but even so, a skill that debuffs only one class and only one sylph? That's either a bug or the devs really hate mages and their sylph equivalent.

u never gonna win anything when u come at 400k+ br with triton so dont know why u wasting ur time with it.... and where did i complain about pve im talking about pvp where magic's are gods when u get atleast 400k+ and archer getting weaks.

[Imonseph]

Mages are supposed to heal, knights are supposed to tank and archers are supposed to deal damage or am I wrong ?
Every class has weakness and strenghts, every class is good in certain situations while other suck, that's the natural way of the game.
I've seen many games that were ruined because developers tried to "make the classes more balanced" it felt like it doesn't matter what class you play, mage archer knight or whatever they all were the same making the idea of having classes pointless.

with the addition of sylphs, this game is no different. archers aren't the damage class, sylphs are, and with the iris heal, there is no balance at all.

So it should be players decision to know what sylph to balance and make up for their hero class weakness, ain't that not right?
Runes also do the same thing in making up for this:
Chaos on mage AoE heals and dmg skill (just annoying...)
Bleed on archers (hehe.. they can't heal much, let them bleed ^^); knights have shield so work on them is meh..
Purge on knights shield (waha.. where's your shield now :P)

Guardian rune is however, the rune that does cause some imbalance for knights given,
that adv. guardian shields more dmg than a knight's shield (though apollo shield works much better),
and knight's block heals cap at 3000Hp would prove detrimental at late game (about 5000Hp cap should be instead)

Runes with sylphs make it even more interesting, and fights more intense..
So issue doesn't revolve around these petty issues, but also concerning more of what has been nerfed..

[KS222]

Only class that gets a pdef bonus is knights. So aside from the small armor boost (might become a bigger thing once holy forge becomes commonplace), mages do not get "shafted" in pdef. Mages do get less hp though, which is compensated by heals.

And slow doesn't work in sky trail or god's descent.

Slow used to and that still gives a permanent advantage in rewards to those that were able to use slow while it worked there. I also thought the nerf of slow was part of what set archers to complaining they'd been nerfed, when in truth, nerfing slow nerfed everyone, not just archers.

[KS222]

What kind of BRs are you talking here when they're 10k higher?

My archer is 230k BR with her strong sylph (Triton). She can usually take down mages up to 245k BR (depending on the mage's build and tactics) and sometimes has taken down ones near 290k when they massively screw up or when she gets very lucky. Knights are a bit tougher for her to beat due to their higher pdef, but it seems many of them make dumb mistakes because they expect to roll over her easily (knight with Herc vs archer with Triton). She's beaten knights with 240k BR simply because they made dumb mistakes she was able to exploit.

[KS222]

The problem isn't mage heals. The problem is still the overpowered guardian rune. Weak mages benefit the most. Well all mages are useless solo but to give them such an advantage that can't be scattered away seems senseless.

Such a complaint seems kind of silly to me. Guardian rune lasts only a few turns, even when maxed. If it was a longer lasting buff or had a shorter cd, I'd agree that its OP, but as is, it costs a lot of resources to get it maxed and it really has to be timed right to work. If you use it too soon or go for amnesia instead to nerf the person's sylph round, then you have to tank their hits without guardian.
Long as we're all whining though, here's what I think is **:
Iris/Triton and mage heals are debuffed by Devil's Gaze. Apollo/Athena, Herc, Cerberus, and rune heals are not affected at all by Devil's Gaze. I'm glad Devil's Gaze is a hard hit and useful in that regard even when it can't debuff the heals available to other classes, but why is the skill so broken? I know not all skills work on all abilities (lots of things SS can't debuff), but even so, a skill that debuffs only one class and only one sylph? That's either a bug or the devs really hate mages and their sylph equivalent.

[FufuBunnySlayer]

Look at the natural stats of each class. Mages get shafted in pdef and HP. We can compensate for that with pdef gems and with Gaia sylph (evolved Hades).

Only class that gets a pdef bonus is knights. So aside from the small armor boost (might become a bigger thing once holy forge becomes commonplace), mages do not get "shafted" in pdef. Mages do get less hp though, which is compensated by heals.

And slow doesn't work in sky trail or god's descent.

[KS222]

dosen matter how long u wait as a archer for magic's can still heal full without rune and u lose 1-2 skill in pet from atleast then they just have to wait to se a delphic to click gard rune. dosen matter how much u try to counter for the longer u wait the more they heal.

and its now archer over magic anymore like it used to be and a archer got a real problem when they face warriors too.

the only thing im saying its unfair that magic for so much heal when the 2 other classes only get nerfed.....

Mages are the only class without a guaranteed slow. Guess I should shout unfair and talk about how bad mages get hosed? People complain about mage heal spam. Try playing a mage in necro, sky trail, or god's decent. Our only good single target dps skill costs 50 rage. With lucky rage redux procs, we might be able to spam it 3-4 times. We have to rely on our sylph to do most of the dps because of our slow rage gain. Any time spent healing is time wasted since we're one turn closer to that 1000% buff and 0 dps done that turn. Yup, complain about our matk advantage and our heal spam while every other class can get further in those PvE instances with less BR than a mage needs to beat it.

Archers were not nerfed. Slow was nerfed and it was nerfed for everyone. It isn't just archer's Deep Freeze skill, but also knight's slow, mages slow chance from thunderer, Herc's slow skill, and mire rune that got nerfed. It may affect archers more because they initially had a bigger advantage with their guaranteed slow skill, but it affected every class. Knights did get nerfed. They had their block heal nerfed. That affected only them and no other class. Honestly, I think they got ripped off by that. It made ToK a bit easier; those OP knights with godlike block heals that outperformed suntoria by floor 5 were a massive pain. Mages have never been nerfed by patches, but one could argue that our lack of good single target dps skills and the fact that every one of our delphics suck is a pretty massive nerf, courtesy of the devs, that we've been "blessed" with since day 1.

[Revelâ„¢]

Archers are supposed to be strong vs mages. If you're having trouble dealing with them, either you're fighting mages way stronger than you or you should take a look at your build. My archer alt is VIP only cashed and manages to beat many mages that are 10k BR higher than her.
Also, with Iris/Triton, anyone can have heal spam. Since my archer's main sylph is a Triton, I can attest that she gets more crit heals with her Triton than most mages get with their heals.

What kind of BRs are you talking here when they're 10k higher?

[KS222]

Whoever said mages have have low pdef is smoking something, fought one in a bg yesterday and he took all my hits, was 1 hit away from killing him and he pops on a resto, I literally gave up after that. Not whining and all since its pretty useless to complain about the specific things that each class gets but mages are the superior forces in bgs now with high matk which both knights and archers are weak to and now mages are adding pdef gems to balance out being hit hard by patk. Knights can rip apart a mage easy by shielding up (not complaining about it since that is their special skill) while us skinny archers (unless you cash hard or been playing since the game was released) are used as crops for harvest.

Look at the natural stats of each class. Mages get shafted in pdef and HP. We can compensate for that with pdef gems and with Gaia sylph (evolved Hades). Naturally, $ will make any class strong in anything if you have enough of it. Those who have heavy cashed holy forge have some crazy high attack and def stats compared to the rest of us.
Archers are lower on def, but are given naturally high attack and some pretty awesome crit passives. In my opinion, that higher attack, better crit, and debuffs that damage your opponent make up for the lower natural def. Even if your opponent is smart and doesn't waste their nukes when you IS them, you still forced them to use their lighter hits for a few turns while you're dpsing them. When archer talents proc enough, I can get some pretty impressive damage out of my archer; discounted AP spam to max debuff their pdef then follow up with an IS nuke that is guaranteed crit from AP talent proc. If I need to build rage for the IS, arrow strike's base crit boost talent is pretty sweet; it's made some of my IS hit harder than my crit delphic. Those are random talent procs and not guaranteed, but they seem to proc enough to make a difference (my archer is level 77 with most of her useful talents maxed at level 8; she can't get them any higher til she hits level 80).

[KS222]

archer can't stall time because of there low def. and because magic got some many thing to heal with the can just sit back and use gard rune when we hitting the delphic. dosen matter if ur stall for u have to use it before u run out of pet points.

and offcause magic got need to heal but why is it okay that u guys can heal 90-100% with 3 skills even if u got the skill nerfef to 50-70% it still good for pve like it made for. in pvp its just stupid that u can heal that much in end game for u got the almost same dps as archers because of there low def and u got alot higher mdef then archer.

Archers are supposed to be strong vs mages. If you're having trouble dealing with them, either you're fighting mages way stronger than you or you should take a look at your build. My archer alt is VIP only cashed and manages to beat many mages that are 10k BR higher than her.
Also, with Iris/Triton, anyone can have heal spam. Since my archer's main sylph is a Triton, I can attest that she gets more crit heals with her Triton than most mages get with their heals.

[vibranthearts]

Lol it's true, whine about healing but there are ways around it.
Every class has something the other doesn't. If you want the features of the class should of became that class rather than crying about any challenges. No one held a gun to your head while choosing.