Where do I start...

[R2_Sanguine]

Well I guess that is where the disconnect lies. Moderators are only here for the forums: they make sure there's no spam, they answer game questions, and they forward tickets and game issues. Most of this is behind the scenes. Mods get the unfortunate bonus of being "too much of a player" to be R2, but "too much R2" for players. They're kinda caught in the middle when they just wanted to help out both sides

But R2 does need to justify itself in the "money loop" (i.e. the service and support for the product(s) offered and rendered). We can't fix the bugs, but we can report them, using player data and sentiment, to get a fix made. Sometimes fixes are quick, sometimes they are rolled together into one maintenance, sometimes they aren't fixed at all. I think we all agree which of the 3 scenarios are worst, but we do our best to avoid that scenario (although it does still occur). But the biggest and most necessary changes are usually the slowest.

[Nakaraska]

Totally agree with you Sanguine; I understand you don't really have the power to fix the bugs yourself and fact is, all games have bugs and it can take time to fix them. I imagine the suggestions made have been taken on board for consideration, but there seems to be one clear element that frustrates a lot of people... and that's the visibility of cheating and seemingly little action. It's been over a week since I reported a bot user to the support team and apparently my ticket is "resolved" but i'm afraid there's no response to it, just "we are investigating" and that's it; I should be at least informed that you agree that cheating has occurred and action will be taken.

I've asked support to explain their thoughts and whether they agree that cheating has taken place. I also asked that if my evidence was not sufficient, they inform me what they want to see and i'll go get it considering the player in question is still roaming around on my server and still botting. I'm also unsure of how long you guys need to complete an investigation, and all this can frustrate any person who is trying to help you guys create an fair playing field (and to clarify, a fair playing field means no bot use in this explicit case). You've also got users effectively accusing you of favourtism towards paying customers... i'm not going to offer an opinion for this, but is this truly the case? What happens to these tickets and how does that reporter know the result of your investigation? If it was me, i'd be naming and shaming that person quite frankly! Cheating should always have consequences...

[R2_Sanguine]

We don't disclose our action against players. We don't want witch hunting and we don't think it's appropriate to disclose the results of a case that could potentially involve a lot of money or time. We do our best, but our best could be better for sure. Sometimes it takes days to catch a cheater, sometimes 6 months. Sometimes we can never prove he was cheating even if you think it's true. We can't just act on player sentiment and because you SAY they are cheating, we need to PROVE it. And FYI, we see players say they are hacking to make themselves seem cool, when they aren't hacking at all. Just have to continue reporting any proof you have and, hopefully, trust that we will investigate the case thoroughly and make a fair ruling based on facts and data.

[Nakaraska]

With all due respect, you have just effectively admitted that you find it extremely difficult to catch any cheater, and whilst some players could try to support your investigation it seems that it will fall to an inevitable mystery over what you will do about it. Fact is, if you were to venture into my server as an example and patrol the atoll, you would see them at it. Unfortunately, it seems that any evidence a player can supply you is unable to prove anything, and I did recommend server patrols which means you'd see them in the act. The video I sent across, in my opinion, proves the bot use... if it doesn't, it's totally fine to ask that player to provide more if you actually wanted to pursue an investigation.

"Witch hunting" is something people can do without your control i'm afraid. It's very simple for someone to set up a domain and upload these users to their own website if they chose to, and then spread the link. You won't be able to prevent that, so that should not be even a factor in your thinking, in my opinion.

As you have already stated though, you don't have time due to sheer amount of support tickets...

You have also just stated that it could involve "a lot of money" which is hard to understand. I don't want to assume anything, but it does seem like you use amount of money spent as a factor toward's a player's behaviour. That's your decision as a company, but not exactly good ethics for honest players.

Regarding your point around players who claim to hack; people can say what the hell they want and it doesn't mean they should be banned. However, if you received a recording from someone which shows the bot/cheat at use then they're caught.

Either way, your response could be read by anyone who uses this forum as acceptance towards cheating if they send you money... almost like a bribe!! You can't make a fair ruling if you are going to use level of revenue as a factor in a player's consequence, so just allow bots and save yourself hassle and time (and even money) dealing with people like me who are trying to promote a fair game for ALL players (especially non-cashers).

And finally, I can report so many people but you have also informed me that investigations take up to 6 months. Quite simply, not good enough... doesn't take a few minutes to watch a video. A lot of users have reported cheating and I can only assume a lot of them are garbage based on your response above. But as you have no standard on what is considered "sufficient" evidence then it looks like you won't be banning anyone for cheating... [Mod Snip]

[EsmeWeatherwax]

I had to edit your post, because of rule 13 of the forum rules. Please keep those in mind.

[Nakaraska]

I had to edit your post, because of rule 13 of the forum rules. Please keep those in mind.

Sorry for the inconvenience, but if I may refer to the rule:

13. Players are not allowed to create topics or signatures including: account-selling / flaming / advertisement-of-other-games / pornography / key-loggers or any other illegal software.

It wasn't a topic or signature... it was a post So maybe that should have not been removed according to your own rules, or it requires updating?

[EsmeWeatherwax]

Semantics. Tomayto tomahtoe. You raised a topic, as part of a post, that's against the rules. Call it a topic, post, thread, monologue or discussion, it is and will be against forum rules to imply what it was you said. Feel free to contact the forum admin via a ticket if you disagree.

[Nakaraska]

OK, so rather than make a simple change to that rule and state "... or makes posts relating to" you instead go with semantics. Seems like you feel the need to defend your decision rather than accept some feedback regarding the wording of your "rules". Let me just go and purchase some balens, maybe you'll accept and acknowledge me actually trying to help you guys out...

[MemoryLane]

Sorry for the confusion with the rules (and the continuation of being off your topic). The request for clarification on where rules apply to will be forwarded to the Forum Admin, as mods are not allowed to alter R2's rules. The rules are a general guideline, and do apply to every bit of content submitted to the forum. The intention with the rules as written was to not have to sit and read novels of text in order to find out what isn't allowed here, and the mods will clarify any rules that aren't clear to you.

I look forward to reading Sanguine's reply to your follow up questions.