Announcement

Collapse

Official Community Discord Server

Join us on the new R2Games Community Discord Server! https://discord.gg/VFMzFDqKq5
See more
See less

A little bit of math on Treasure Hunt strategy.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • gimmickless
    started a topic A little bit of math on Treasure Hunt strategy.

    A little bit of math on Treasure Hunt strategy.

    tl;dr - Purples are never worth your time.

    *****

    We will assume that one always succeeds when upgrading maps, a best case scenario. We will also assume that one fights with a party of 4 to maximize bonuses. Assume that the player only spends wine to upgrade.

    Knowing this, we can answer the question if it is better to spend 2 wines on 2 blue maps, or 2 wines on one purple:
    • 1 purple + 4 green = 1 * (72 * 3) + 4 * (36 * 3) = 648
    • 2 blue + 3 green = 2 * (56 * 3) + 3 * (36 * 3) = 660


    But what about if we have 3 wines? We can now potentially upgrade to an orange, which increases rewards by 33% for the opener. This allows for the following combinations:
    • 1 orange + 4 green = 1 * (108 * 3 * 1.33) + 4 * (36 * 3) = 862.92 = 863
    • 1 purple + 1 blue + 3 green = 1 * (72 * 3) + 1 * (56 * 3) + 3 * (36 * 3) = 708
    • 3 blue + 2 green = 3 * (56 * 3) + 2 * (36 * 3) = 720


    Okay, easy enough. Orange looks great if you never fail. So what if we fail on one upgrade? That will alter the shards-per-wine ratio. Again, assuming no failures:

    Blue = (56 - 36) * 3 = 60 shards/wine
    Purple = (72 - 36) shards * 3 / 2 wine = 54 shards/wine
    Orange = ((108 * 1.33) - 36) shards * 3 / 3 wine = 107.64 = 108 shards/wine


    Orange looks pretty nice, doesn't it? Here's what happens if there is a failure upgrading from blue to purple:

    Blue = 60 shards/wine
    Purple = (72 - 36) shards * 3 / 3 wine = 36 shards/wine
    Orange = ((108 * 1.33) - 36) shards * 3 / 4 wine = 80.73 = 81 shards/wine

    Orange still looks pretty good. Let's look to see what happens if purple fails once to upgrade to orange:

    Orange = ((108 * 1.33) - 36) shards * 3 / 5 wine = 64.58 = 65 shards/wine

    Even after two failures, orange outperforms blue. After a third failure, blue wins out. The arithmetic is left as an exercise for the reader.

    "So what if I want to spend 8 wines to guarantee an orange map?"

    Don't. Spending 6 wines on an orange map is a losing proposition. Spending 8 will only make it worse. I learned this the hard way.

    *****

    By chance, does anybody have figures on the probability of failure to upgrade? This could help my modeling out a bit more.

  • Wraithraiser
    replied
    Originally posted by MsKink View Post
    oh i didnt even know it doubled lol

    another thing worth mentionning though is whether someone think in wines or in balens
    They are 2 pretty different ways to approach maps as wines are free and suppose you have a endless (well lets say a lot) supply of them, then you should just go for oranges and dont care ^^ As for balens, i wont go there as i think this is one of the most ridiculous place to spend balens nowadays (still not as worse as market refresh though lol)

    Anyway, thanks for the info ^^ I did it in 3 attempt the orange map today btw
    Bound balens are free; and after you have everything you can buy for them, well not much else you can do now is there

    Leave a comment:


  • Arlad
    replied
    btw you can mix balens with wine. if you only have 4 wines, it wil take extra 60 balens if you do 1-click refresh to orange.

    Leave a comment:


  • MsKink
    replied
    Originally posted by Brutal_Hobo View Post
    1 wine is equal to 15 balen
    as you can see it doubles in the need of balens for next map jump
    the minimum needed to get orange is 7
    however it is guaranteed at 8
    and it is possible to fail getting a blue map i have multiple times
    your math is wrong in so many ways
    oh i didnt even know it doubled lol

    another thing worth mentionning though is whether someone think in wines or in balens
    They are 2 pretty different ways to approach maps as wines are free and suppose you have a endless (well lets say a lot) supply of them, then you should just go for oranges and dont care ^^ As for balens, i wont go there as i think this is one of the most ridiculous place to spend balens nowadays (still not as worse as market refresh though lol)

    Anyway, thanks for the info ^^ I did it in 3 attempt the orange map today btw

    Leave a comment:


  • Brutal_Hobo
    replied
    Originally posted by Arlad View Post
    Umm yes. But iirc in lvl 10 advance they give 3 .

    only 2, i was farming them in my advanced dimension

    never got 3

    Leave a comment:


  • fenrir67
    replied
    Originally posted by Doranos89 View Post
    Expert dimension have 30 floors
    *shivers* :P 30 big floors as well

    Leave a comment:


  • Doranos89
    replied
    Originally posted by Littlelyseria View Post
    How many floors does expert have?
    Expert dimension have 30 floors

    Leave a comment:


  • Littlelyseria
    replied
    How many floors does expert have?

    Leave a comment:


  • Arlad
    replied
    Originally posted by fenrir67 View Post
    floor 21 and above?:P
    do i dare to ask what map?:P expert right?
    Umm yes. But iirc in lvl 10 advance they give 3 .

    Leave a comment:


  • fenrir67
    replied
    Originally posted by Arlad View Post
    i dont spend balens but i still buy 3-4 orange maps / week anyway. dimension are good source of wine, especially in floor 21 and above the chest give 4 wines.
    floor 21 and above?:P
    do i dare to ask what map?:P expert right?

    Leave a comment:


  • Arlad
    replied
    i dont spend balens but i still buy 3-4 orange maps / week anyway. dimension are good source of wine, especially in floor 21 and above the chest give 4 wines.

    Leave a comment:


  • fenrir67
    replied
    Originally posted by WickedSilk View Post
    These calculations are all based on invested vs. gained, and even if they do show you something, they don't tell you how to get the amount of crystals you need. I think the biggest mistake in thinking this way is counting absolute gains when you should be counting those relative to other players.

    For example, people who have some extra resources will always get oranges daily. The cost of crystals is also steadily dropping as time passes. However, having crystals early means more power later. Through this, even if someone is getting oranges which might be less cost-efficient than blues in the long run, he'll have more crystals earlier and, through crystal events, might make his investment worth it.

    Let me show you another brief example. Greens give 36 crystals and oranges give 108 in their most basic case. This is a ratio of 1:3. Though it seems like a huge difference, this will only lead to the one using oranges getting one level of crystals higher than the one using greens (for example, all lvl 5 vs all lvl 6). Even if you calculate the bonuses for using one of those orange maps yourself (+36) and the greater chance of thieves on orange maps, it still amounts to a small difference altogether (though some might argue that the difference in 1 level is rather large, especially with levels 6 and 7).

    A single level difference will give you (on average) 60 less resistance of that element, which is about 8% reduction. In PvP, where RES reduction is used heavily this might matter a bit, but as numbers go up it is becoming less important. In PvE, dimensions should help everyone reach the maximum of 90% reduction against at least one type reasonably soon. As people are getting closer to this cap in several elements, more levels will be added, but the whole Battle Guardian system will start capping out.

    So what does one really need? With the sudden overflow of bound balens from various events I'd recommend getting oranges from the one click refresh and blues when you think your bb reserves are getting low. I'm keeping 2-3k bbs with me at all times and using them freely whenever I get more. For the exact day-to-day recipe, you should just check your bb/wines reserves and see how much you can afford. Even though their value is slowly dropping, I feel like using bbs for maps is one of their best uses at the moment.
    agreed.

    blue give most when it comes to efficiency, however it doesnt mean it has to be the best choice.
    if for example you are only capable of doing th once a week, but have average 7 wines per week, you can get purple or orange (if you have some pare wines left). why bother with blue then?:P


    wickedsilk recommends to get orange maps, i have to disagree with that. th is probably one of the end game stuff you wanna buy. mounts, clothing, transposers etc all have priority first. maps are nice if you bought most stuff, but i doubt many free/young players have reached that point at this moment

    Leave a comment:


  • laba-laba
    replied
    Originally posted by gimmickless View Post
    "So what if I want to spend 8 wines to guarantee an orange map?"

    Don't. Spending 6 wines on an orange map is a losing proposition. Spending 8 will only make it worse. I learned this the hard way.

    By chance, does anybody have figures on the probability of failure to upgrade? This could help my modeling out a bit more.
    Get your facts straight.

    1) Unless you are soloing all your maps, every person can bring atleast blue maps, 15 bb is cheap. Blue is the best option under 8 wines.

    2) Price is increasing every step. YOU CANNOT USE 3 WINES TO GET ORANGE!!
    7 IS THE MINIMUM = GREEN TO BLUE + BLUE TO PURPLE + PURPLE TO GOLD = 1 + 2 + 4
    That means you must not failed EVER. Failing once is already worse than blue maps.

    3) If you have 8+ wines grab a guaranteed orange, there's a reason they put limit per day, shards per day trumps shards every 5 days.

    Leave a comment:


  • WickedSilk
    replied
    These calculations are all based on invested vs. gained, and even if they do show you something, they don't tell you how to get the amount of crystals you need. I think the biggest mistake in thinking this way is counting absolute gains when you should be counting those relative to other players.

    For example, people who have some extra resources will always get oranges daily. The cost of crystals is also steadily dropping as time passes. However, having crystals early means more power later. Through this, even if someone is getting oranges which might be less cost-efficient than blues in the long run, he'll have more crystals earlier and, through crystal events, might make his investment worth it.

    Let me show you another brief example. Greens give 36 crystals and oranges give 108 in their most basic case. This is a ratio of 1:3. Though it seems like a huge difference, this will only lead to the one using oranges getting one level of crystals higher than the one using greens (for example, all lvl 5 vs all lvl 6). Even if you calculate the bonuses for using one of those orange maps yourself (+36) and the greater chance of thieves on orange maps, it still amounts to a small difference altogether (though some might argue that the difference in 1 level is rather large, especially with levels 6 and 7).

    A single level difference will give you (on average) 60 less resistance of that element, which is about 8% reduction. In PvP, where RES reduction is used heavily this might matter a bit, but as numbers go up it is becoming less important. In PvE, dimensions should help everyone reach the maximum of 90% reduction against at least one type reasonably soon. As people are getting closer to this cap in several elements, more levels will be added, but the whole Battle Guardian system will start capping out.

    So what does one really need? With the sudden overflow of bound balens from various events I'd recommend getting oranges from the one click refresh and blues when you think your bb reserves are getting low. I'm keeping 2-3k bbs with me at all times and using them freely whenever I get more. For the exact day-to-day recipe, you should just check your bb/wines reserves and see how much you can afford. Even though their value is slowly dropping, I feel like using bbs for maps is one of their best uses at the moment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Littlelyseria
    replied
    Outside his calculations arent exact, should put the variations with stuff like 1-4 + the other types, 1-4 purple + the other types and so on to compare the outcome,
    obviously the cost to do every1 purples daily could be even more expensive than doing 1-refresh to get an orange directly if u happen to fail repeteadly.

    My team does usually 5 blues daily and sometimes when BB allow, do 4 orange/1blue run (something like once a week) and all i can say is by doing resistance
    gems only in the events, my stock of crystals isnt really going down if you put in the table the amount dropped from dimensions daily (i keep basics and
    intermediate up for now at all times).

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X