About Mages and Electro Skills & Resistance Thread 2

[Arlad]

lol this guy keep using big words without even applied it. you asked for evidence, but where are yours?

youre the one spouting stupid things like intercept, and everyone quickly showed you that youre wrong

[MrFancyPants]

In the vain hope of heading off further disputes over the established facts, here are those facts, as tested by me personally as well as many others:

1. When you are attacked by any non-elemental attack, your highest resistance value is used. This includes ALL attacks by other players who are not in sylph form.
2. When hit by an elemental attack, your resistance to that element is used. This includes certain bosses, awakened players in pvp, and unawakened sylph attacks (the little unblockable, defense-ignoring hits)
3. In all cases, the applicable res (see 1 and 2 above) is reduced by the attacker's reduce res (will crystals)
4. When awakened, the sylph's defense stats are added to your own, so your damage received will be reduced by some additional amount.

This is how it works now, and is very well tested. There is really no point in disputing these things without good evidence. The videos posted by girgle way back do not show anything that doesn't agree with the above. It doesn't really require any statistical analysis to confirm this, since you can control the inputs, varying them widely with little difficulty. A p-value of 0 is possible here, if you assume that normal damage values have a limited range. Vary only one factor, the target's max res value and type, and you can quickly see just how dramatic the differences are. Take out the attacker's will crystals to really see the effects best.

If you think this is not how it should work, then go submit a bug. It probably won't go anywhere, but more productive than trying to convince other players to join you in dreaming of a better Wartune, while confusing people who want to find out how it actually works now.

[Arlad]

In the vain hope of heading off further disputes over the established facts, here are those facts, as tested by me personally as well as many others:

1. When you are attacked by any non-elemental attack, your highest resistance value is used. This includes ALL attacks by other players who are not in sylph form.
2. When hit by an elemental attack, your resistance to that element is used. This includes certain bosses, awakened players in pvp, and unawakened sylph attacks (the little unblockable, defense-ignoring hits)
3. In all cases, the applicable res (see 1 and 2 above) is reduced by the attacker's reduce res (will crystals)
4. When awakened, the sylph's defense stats are added to your own, so your damage received will be reduced by some additional amount.

This is how it works now, and is very well tested. There is really no point in disputing these things without good evidence. The videos posted by girgle way back do not show anything that doesn't agree with the above. It doesn't really require any statistical analysis to confirm this, since you can control the inputs, varying them widely with little difficulty. A p-value of 0 is possible here, if you assume that normal damage values have a limited range. Vary only one factor, the target's max res value and type, and you can quickly see just how dramatic the differences are. Take out the attacker's will crystals to really see the effects best.

If you think this is not how it should work, then go submit a bug. It probably won't go anywhere, but more productive than trying to convince other players to join you in dreaming of a better Wartune, while confusing people who want to find out how it actually works now.

thanks for the insight, but he will deny it again as always.

[pietjeprecies]

First off, im not your " hun" secondly rambling the same yabladibla 3 posts in a row trying to look very smart and educated while your previous posts has shown your not so bright and smart as you want people to believe, isnt going to change anything.

[SquishyFoxy]

since you cant be persuaded with words, look at these screenshots i just made:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]131127[/ATTACH]
hercules, vs 565 elec resist, no 50% bonus. 51k damage
[ATTACH=CONFIG]131128[/ATTACH]
cerberus, vs -200 fire resist and 240 elec resist, 50% damage bonus. 15k damage. the res taken is the highest res, which is wind res at 1175!


now, give me all of the evidence you have that supported your argument.


ps: to the mods, is the uploader broke or something? cant upload images above 500kb.

this does not prove anything hun. As I said it is very very important to understand that correlation does not prove causation. I gives you a starting point to test a hypothesis. And actually you are disproving another poster who was quoted by Ariad. An experiment like that has same caveats as so many other posts. you are comparing apples to oranges... your sylphs are different, with different types of attack. I never ever even once said mATK was Electro...where did you get that? Now I did give a comparison with much better controls...in fact ONLY diffference was opponents res value...nothing else...but that is only one example with one sylph type and one opponent. that is not enough to form a hypothesis. Now here is a suggestion for you. A better setup for your experiment would be to hold all variables the same and only switch one. My first instinct would be for you to play with the gems of your opponent or you. you might get some more directly applicable data that way. I would be happy to help you set up your experimental design if you would like

[Arlad]

this does not prove anything hun. As I said it is very very important to understand that correlation does not prove causation. I gives you a starting point to test a hypothesis. And actually you are disproving another poster who was quoted by Ariad. An experiment like that has same caveats as so many other posts. you are comparing apples to oranges... your sylphs are different, with different types of attack. I never ever even once said mATK was Electro...where did you get that? Now I did give a comparison with much better controls...in fact ONLY diffference was opponents res value...nothing else...but that is only one example with one sylph type and one opponent. that is not enough to form a hypothesis. Now here is a suggestion for you. A better setup for your experiment would be to hold all variables the same and only switch one. My first instinct would be for you to play with the gems of your opponent or you. you might get some more directly applicable data that way. I would be happy to help you set up your experimental design if you would like

denial level: over 9000!!!

[pietjeprecies]

My first instinct would be to look for a great nuthouse for you, I would be happy to google some facilities with great experimental rooms for you.

[SquishyFoxy]

thanks for the insight, but he will deny it again as always.

This actually isnt a well established fact. It is a current observation... there is not enough data proposed by anyone to actually prove that this is how it works or should work. People propose hypotheses based on observations but come up with complete models with not enough real data. you give this as the conclusive..this is how it works thread...you think it is how it works...but there is much argument on this thread so to end it by saying this is it and definitive. I agree the posters studies were flawed. but in addition there is "evidence" in this thread that sylph res has NOTHING to do with nonsylph attack. My question was is this happening to other classes as well. that is not something that deserves the vile and nasty responses. FULLSTOP

[SquishyFoxy]

My first instinct would be to look for a great nuthouse for you, I would be happy to google some facilities with great experimental rooms for you.

that is completely uncalled for

[Arlad]

This actually isnt a well established fact. It is a current observation... there is not enough data proposed by anyone to actually prove that this is how it works or should work. People propose hypotheses based on observations but come up with complete models with not enough real data. you give this as the conclusive..this is how it works thread...you think it is how it works...but there is much argument on this thread so to end it by saying this is it and definitive. I agree the posters studies were flawed. but in addition there is "evidence" in this thread that sylph res has NOTHING to do with nonsylph attack. My question was is this happening to other classes as well. that is not something that deserves the vile and nasty responses. FULLSTOP

its rising!!! denial level now at 9002!

[MrFancyPants]

this does not prove anything hun. As I said it is very very important to understand that correlation does not prove causation. I gives you a starting point to test a hypothesis. And actually you are disproving another poster who was quoted by Ariad. An experiment like that has same caveats as so many other posts. you are comparing apples to oranges... your sylphs are different, with different types of attack. I never ever even once said mATK was Electro...where did you get that? Now I did give a comparison with much better controls...in fact ONLY diffference was opponents res value...nothing else...but that is only one example with one sylph type and one opponent. that is not enough to form a hypothesis. Now here is a suggestion for you. A better setup for your experiment would be to hold all variables the same and only switch one. My first instinct would be for you to play with the gems of your opponent or you. you might get some more directly applicable data that way. I would be happy to help you set up your experimental design if you would like

OK, for clarification, he was not trying to prove a new hypothesis, he was trying to disprove the original hypothesis of this thread, which is very, very easy to do. And which he did (proof by counterexample). At the same time, he also disproved the idea that the attack element is set to the element of the active sylph (pre-awakening).

You keep complaining about other people's lack of scientific rigor, but the only actual contribution of yours was a single anecdote which fits in perfectly with what we are already saying. So the burden of proof if you have a different hypothesis (that is not already disproven) is on you. If you're so good at experimental design, please have at it. I always love to have actual results to point to, and rigorous analysis would be icing on the cake. Or if you would like to run the necessary experiment to prove what we have been telling you, that would be great. I know my own testing wasn't really thorough; I started with a lot of assumptions. But there's little room for any major divergence from the proposed model. You'll at best be finding that resistance percents are slightly off the expected numbers.

[SquishyFoxy]

I am not complaining about it ...pointing it out. I didn.t come here to give the answers...I came to ask for others observations. You gave yours...that is great...much appreciated. I did not come with any suggestion of how this works...I came from the perspective of a mage because I am only able to observe stuff from that perspective. I noticed a strange issue with my skills not working for just some people so I started watching them. And some things were all the same...particularly ....all using electro sylph and all having high electro res. I thought hmmm wonder what is going on or is it just me so I looked in forum and saw this thread...saw poster conclusion...I experienced same thing so posted in this thread.. I didnt come to conclusion that anyone was wrong...but I had no real experience with this happening with other sylph. but in terms of element affecting normal attack...that seemed strange to me...so wondered if other classes experienced that. So I came here and said that. and everyone replied how this was over and done and already worked out. All I saw was mage info...my question was did it happen to other classes too? that was not insupport of poster but redirection of poster. Why do I want to know...well first if this is not how it is supposed to work then shouldn't that be brought to attention of devs? If it is how it works wouldnt that change your play style and emphasis? wouldnt knowing the way it works specifically make it easier for you to select dimensions...but then how does this res function in transformed mode...all changes so why? these are my questions...why? to beat down a dead topic? no because I want to be a better player and I can do that by discussing my observations to others and understanding how these factors affect all aspects of our fight. Because when I transform I can tell you...I believe those high res people are actually MORE vunerable to my sylph attacks. Do you see that? wouldnt that affect your play if it did? and wouldnt you want a little more incite from others who have different strenth in res just to make sure I am not thinking I am looking at an addition problem when I take two 2 and get 4 but in fact if I get a bit more date realize it is multiplication and in that case two 2 get 4 as well.

I do not argue or disprove your hypothesis. I only want to know if this happening to all...is it happening before transform only? do you see any differences after transform and go back to normal form?

[daunapu]

I noticed a strange issue with my skills not working for just some people so I started watching them. And some things were all the same...particularly ....all using electro sylph and all having high electro res.

Isn't that what everyone here is trying to tell you?

[SquishyFoxy]

no basically everyone is telling me I am a fool for posting and everyone KNOWS this...how does everyone know? Oh yes by comparing notes...well it is great if you live in active server but I do not..so I come here to compare...my issue is that it is a changing situation for me..is it for you....ok all of our skills are nerfed in highest res of opponents...what about our sylph skills...there is a clear and dramatic change in skills with sylph and after leaving transformation in my observation...does it happen to you? So what is going on? if is important cuz it does help guide in res development. If all was based on highest rez no matter what sylph you use then why not just build any resistance you get dropped to make that one insane...but does that really make you stronger or does that trash your sylph build...and does this observation of skill nerf return when you go back to human form? these are further questions...that further the topic..it furthers our understanding...so far we have only fleshed out a hypothesis of what is going on before we transform. thank you for your time

[Arlad]

oh ffs, my 1st reply to you was quoting this post:

holy ****, people still doesnt get it? i thought everyone with half a brain already knows how res works in battle.
its already posted in this thread multiple times, ffs.

All char skills are non elemental.

Non elemental attacks are effected by the defenders highest res sat.

Re test using a different res type or get a guild mate of a different class to try, you will get the same outcome.