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  • #16
    Originally posted by LeGarde View Post
    That's why I said ... NO GROUPS. Silver Group is more difficult than Diamond this time. Any sense in that? Groups are the biggest problem anyway. That would be not better, if all goes random. Randoms are completely lucky, not partly. It's a tournament, not rolling dices.
    Without Groups it would be far more realistic. And the tricking would not lift you skyhigh, without fighting for it. On the contrary the groups could be extended to maybe 20+ ranks per group, not just 8. It's simply unfair and unrealistic, that a guild who wins only 4 battles can be Rank 6-8, while a guild who wins 6 battles, end up in maybe Iron Group.
    However, some changes in that matching/ranking/rewarding system would be nice.
    Knew i wrote it in a way u wouldn't have understood so will make an example of how xgb should work. Let's say there are 200 guild in xgb list, on the first match of prel match is random, this will end up with 100 with 1 win and 100 with 1 lose. Then it should work same as cw prel, those with 1 win will face each other and those with 0 face other that lost the 1st prel. On 3rd those 50 guild with 2 win face each other, those with 1 win will face other with 1 win (which at this point has guild that lost the 1st gb too) etc etc. With 6 prel u'll end up having 3 guild that won all (those go to diamond) and others that won 5 and lost 1 (and since they like it this way they'd pick 5 top br guild and send them to diamond, other to gold etc), this is the best way to make a rank based on real strenght and would make finals so much more fun (but 1 should face 8, not 4, basically make it like nba po). I'd like to have both prel and finals to give out more reward to those that can't be in xgb, if u remove group (which mean remove finals) they'd have to give out only 1 reward and we all know they wouldn't make it bigger.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
      Knew i wrote it in a way u wouldn't have understood so will make an example of how xgb should work. Let's say there are 200 guild in xgb list, on the first match of prel match is random, this will end up with 100 with 1 win and 100 with 1 lose. Then it should work same as cw prel, those with 1 win will face each other and those with 0 face other that lost the 1st prel. On 3rd those 50 guild with 2 win face each other, those with 1 win will face other with 1 win (which at this point has guild that lost the 1st gb too) etc etc. With 6 prel u'll end up having 3 guild that won all (those go to diamond) and others that won 5 and lost 1 (and since they like it this way they'd pick 5 top br guild and send them to diamond, other to gold etc), this is the best way to make a rank based on real strenght and would make finals so much more fun (but 1 should face 8, not 4, basically make it like nba po). I'd like to have both prel and finals to give out more reward to those that can't be in xgb, if u remove group (which mean remove finals) they'd have to give out only 1 reward and we all know they wouldn't make it bigger.
      I understood it exactly that way in the first place. But as I said, it's not rolling dices. And what you call "true strength" is nothing more than being lucky for 80% of the guilds, on random.
      By keeping the Finals/Groups as they are, they still can make it to Diamond then, without having ANY chances there. Where is the competition, if you either slaughter or get slaughtered on random? Especially in Finals. Look at Diamond now.
      The win/lose thing must stay as it is, and the matching to closest BR after each fight as well. Nothing wrong about it, except the one-time static enlisted BR for whole guild. Improvements are excluded here. 7 weeks is a lot of time for that.
      If you have 10 Million, 1 win ... you face 8-12 Million with 1 win. Same on losing. With every win/lose round, the gaps in BR are growing. That means, the more you win, the stronger the enemies will be in last rounds.
      But only without the group thing. You still can win 5-6 Battles after you lost 2. Right or not? And THAT should be rewarded with a proper ranking. If you lose 2 now at the wrong point (prelims), you have no chance to enter Silver/Gold/Diamond.
      4 rounds prelims are too few anyway, it should be at least 6 or 7. Even if Guild 1 and 2 face first battle, what is the problem about it then? The losing guild still can walk through the remaining battles. But at least they can reach a higher spot,
      without groups. Not only Silver. Then, mid-card or low guilds still have to fight as well, not only sitting back after 4 won prelims, and having no chance for more ... or enjoying the guaranteed (or maybe tricked) Group rewards.
      They don't even need to show up to have that rewards !! The word is REWARD, not giveaway. If you want a true mirror of guilds strength and abilities, this system has to change. But not to random.
      More battles, no groups or larger groups, detailed and/or timed matching, whatever.

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      • #18
        Random doesn't mean rolling dice dude, only on first match but after that a weak guild won't win and there's no way a weak guild would get into finals with the system i've explained (it's basically same as cw). With your match same br guild system those 8 that lose the first will match togheter, then the other 4 loser will again match togheter and then again the last 2, then they'd win 1 and lose again to the same guild they faced on 4th match so basically 2/4 possible contender for top 16 get kicked out of everything (that's 4/5 lose in ur 7 match thingy) just because high must match high br and on the same way a low br guild can win first 4/5 fight and get into finals. Match has to be random (also i was talkin about 5 prel only which is 1 more then what it is now, if u want 7 match on prel my system will be even better).

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        • #19
          all of the ideas posted here about how the fix the csgb are already posted by someone else when the 1st csgb running.
          and guess what? the ideas never reached the dev's ear, we still have the same crappy matching again.
          Originally posted by Wraithraiser
          Welcome to R2 forums. Where quality is nonexistent and quantity is only measured in the number of whines a single day can produce.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Arlad View Post
            all of the ideas posted here about how the fix the csgb are already posted by someone else when the 1st csgb running.
            and guess what? the ideas never reached the dev's ear, we still have the same crappy matching again.
            doubtful indeed
            as far as i know, all the bugs that happened first one are still there.
            so don't expect evolutions to be added any time soon.
            just wondering if some bugs will be corrected before next one (i already hoped it last time ...)
            RETIRED. Too much bugs, too time consuming, too few listening from Wartune
            Wartune : NonoBoulot : S181 : Archer

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            • #21
              Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
              Random doesn't mean rolling dice dude, only on first match but after that a weak guild won't win and there's no way a weak guild would get into finals with the system i've explained (it's basically same as cw). With your match same br guild system those 8 that lose the first will match togheter, then the other 4 loser will again match togheter and then again the last 2, then they'd win 1 and lose again to the same guild they faced on 4th match so basically 2/4 possible contender for top 16 get kicked out of everything (that's 4/5 lose in ur 7 match thingy) just because high must match high br and on the same way a low br guild can win first 4/5 fight and get into finals. Match has to be random (also i was talkin about 5 prel only which is 1 more then what it is now, if u want 7 match on prel my system will be even better).
              A random system surely can help to shut down the biggest off-battle tricking, I don't doubt that. But whatever a good change might be (I never claimed mine was the only suitable!!) ... the prelims and the finals groups should be dropped. 7-10 fights without that (maybe even on random) can bring a better result for those who really win a lot. No matter, won first 4. Obviously that is easier for low BR guilds, than for highs. Except KOK of course. And another dummy thing about groups is, that only Diamond Ranks 1-3, and Gold Ranks 1-2 (overall 9-10) make a change in group rewarding. We are in Silver, and no matter how much we win or lose, making points ... nothing changes in the final rewards there. Except for the after-battle outcome. In my opinion, that's complete nonsense.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by LeGarde View Post
                A random system surely can help to shut down the biggest off-battle tricking, I don't doubt that. But whatever a good change might be (I never claimed mine was the only suitable!!) ... the prelims and the finals groups should be dropped. 7-10 fights without that (maybe even on random) can bring a better result for those who really win a lot. No matter, won first 4. Obviously that is easier for low BR guilds, than for highs. Except KOK of course. And another dummy thing about groups is, that only Diamond Ranks 1-3, and Gold Ranks 1-2 (overall 9-10) make a change in group rewarding. We are in Silver, and no matter how much we win or lose, making points ... nothing changes in the final rewards there. Except for the after-battle outcome. In my opinion, that's complete nonsense.
                Agree on basically everything and agree with arlad too, they'll never listen to us so we're just dreaming about

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by LeGarde View Post
                  A random system surely can help to shut down the biggest off-battle tricking, I don't doubt that. But whatever a good change might be (I never claimed mine was the only suitable!!) ... the prelims and the finals groups should be dropped. 7-10 fights without that (maybe even on random) can bring a better result for those who really win a lot. No matter, won first 4. Obviously that is easier for low BR guilds, than for highs. Except KOK of course. And another dummy thing about groups is, that only Diamond Ranks 1-3, and Gold Ranks 1-2 (overall 9-10) make a change in group rewarding. We are in Silver, and no matter how much we win or lose, making points ... nothing changes in the final rewards there. Except for the after-battle outcome. In my opinion, that's complete nonsense.
                  The problem with random is there aren't enough fights. Nearly all the fights will be a landslide. Think in Class Wars, how many close fights do you get? Maybe 2 out of 15? Everything else is either an easy win or a crushing defeat. With 4 prelim fights, luck with the RNG will be the most important thing in deciding who goes to the finals. Even if all 7 fights are random, you'd probably only get 1 close match.

                  If you remove the finals group all-together, then I can see guild purposely lose to get easier wins later. Having a close loss then an easy win gets better ranking than having a close win followed by a crushing defeat. When the losing guild (of a close match) will do better than the winning guild, something's wrong.

                  I always saw Gold, Silver, and Iron as exhibition matches with a little incentive. If they let the non-finals people battle it out during the CW finals, that's Gold, Silver, and Iron groups. Their rewards are pretty much set.

                  I don't think the lack of change in final rewards for Gold, Silver, and Iron groups are a problem. Mainly because the easiest "fix" I see is to just drop Gold, Silver, and Iron groups all together. Give them basic rewards and don't let them play in the finals. Make it more like Class Wars. Which I'd rather they not do (more rewards as it is now).

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Chris419 View Post
                    The problem with random is there aren't enough fights. Nearly all the fights will be a landslide. Think in Class Wars, how many close fights do you get? Maybe 2 out of 15? Everything else is either an easy win or a crushing defeat. With 4 prelim fights, luck with the RNG will be the most important thing in deciding who goes to the finals. Even if all 7 fights are random, you'd probably only get 1 close match.

                    If you remove the finals group all-together, then I can see guild purposely lose to get easier wins later. Having a close loss then an easy win gets better ranking than having a close win followed by a crushing defeat. When the losing guild (of a close match) will do better than the winning guild, something's wrong.

                    I always saw Gold, Silver, and Iron as exhibition matches with a little incentive. If they let the non-finals people battle it out during the CW finals, that's Gold, Silver, and Iron groups. Their rewards are pretty much set.

                    I don't think the lack of change in final rewards for Gold, Silver, and Iron groups are a problem. Mainly because the easiest "fix" I see is to just drop Gold, Silver, and Iron groups all together. Give them basic rewards and don't let them play in the finals. Make it more like Class Wars. Which I'd rather they not do (more rewards as it is now).
                    Of course there are not enough fights. Either way. And of course the random thing is very luck-based. Even more, with a low number of rounds. But it would make the BR trick-outmatching almost impossible. Dropping the groups in addition, would give guilds who lost 1 or 2 the chance, to climb the ladder a bit more to where they belong. And to be honest ... set rewards for 8 ranks (!!) in Silver group actually is no competition anymore. No matter, matching by true in-battle-BR or random, we need more battles to have a representative end-ranking. I don't doubt there are real good, smart and tactical brilliant small guilds out there ... but sorry, the Top spots are simply unrealistic as a mirror. Maybe a mix would help. 5 random, 10 by BR (taken in midst of battle) and of course by won/lost points. Anyway, more battles, more fun.

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