Runaway Mage Healing

[PunkPetal]

grass is always greener on the other side
when u get over its never greener

u have never use ur runes to full potential saying knights without guardian rune is such a disability
Have u ever ever consider that
Using a purify rune ( which mage cannot use while in sylph mode ) that purify the skill of shock chain is actually like using a guardian rune )

True .... guardian rune is more powerful when max but purify that - 30 mdef debuff combine ur Apollo shield - 30 % damage taken will be on par

PPL discussion like this I hate to spoonfeed as in previous threads I did say before

Learn ur advantages that mages or archers doesn't have

Do not just look at other's advantages and say LOOK its Imba somethings wrong nerf nerf

The same can be said for healing insanely I already say before drag out the fight heal amount dun increases ur damage increases

If ur br is almost similar with the resistance almost similar the fight is to ur advantage

You mean purge rune not puri, which mage can use, cos I do use it to take off herc buff if my guardian is amnesia blocked.

In fact Guard-Purge combo is what makes mages knight killers.

[DreamFrenzy]

I got a mage down 3 times with say 1 hit to kill and they fully healed x3 and killed me like as if silly lol

[SlowPlay]

You mean purge rune not puri, which mage can use, cos I do use it to take off herc buff if my guardian is amnesia blocked.

In fact Guard-Purge combo is what makes mages knight killers.

No he mean puri, i got his point but apollo last 4 turn, -1 from awaken and -1 from puri leave 2 turn left on apollo and it's useless (it's basically as if a mage use guardian right after being hit by shock chain) it's way easier overall to get rid of that -30% debuff with a heal rune for a knight.

[AdaJames]

Xeptone, are you a complete Cupcake?

I said my MAtk is 1/4 of my HP, which at 54k MAtk is close enough to 1/4 of 240k HP. Restore heals 75% +300 of you MAtk.

And you are so fixated with the 1/4 that you even apply it to the Knight's shield, which I have never said.

Do you even know the game or are you one of those that just like to complain because people are beating you because you just can't play properly?

[Zorich]

@Zorich
Heal rune, u do the math.

I stand corrected on Heal Rune. They've updated it in one of the recent maintenance w/o making note of it.

If i didn't mistaken what u wrote you mixed up once again chance to crit with damage dealt, the ds has a 320+25 from qte damage dealt (345% in the end) with a +20% chance to crit, that chance to crit doesn't make damage higher, just make ds more likely to crit.

A % Chance to Crit increase adds damage over time, thus increasing overall average damage. That's the point. I wasn't talking QtE. A 20% Crit Boost, over time, Effectively adds 10% more damage on that skill.

you're wrong on passive, it's 7% damage reduce and 5% crit reduce

Sorry, I undersold your talent . 7% Extra Base DR is huge.

about talent, we could talk also about mage talent that reduce rage/add rage and nullify all your point of not having enough rage.
Also about rage gain, if we pick the basic skill we get 5 more rage (slasher 25 against lb 20) but our skill cost way more rage, for istance your thunderer is 50 against edd 100, your aoe is 30 (meteor) against our 50 ww, your restore is 35 and your sunt is 30 against our shield 30 but restore give more hp then shield (even if uncrit i think but feel free to prove me wrong) and also give you a meaningless damage reduction but since you like to talk about every little thing i'll talk about that too , i don't think mage have that huge problem with rage tbh, it's just something that keep coming back from when we all were using pvp set.

About your rotation, rof give you +6 rage, lb +20, sunt -20, lb +20, lb +20, restore -25 (15 possibly), awaken give you 10 (14 even?) rage so you end each pvp with a net gain of 31 rage (with the averange clothes around u'd end each pvp with 90/95 rage), i should ask why because you can easly stick in a thunderer instead of a lb.

LB is +18, not +20. RoF vs. a Single-Target is a -2 Net Rage. Remember that soon enough we're all going to be fighting CW style in BGs, and many people in BG now just run 1 troop count because it makes your invulnerable to Chaos where offensive attacks are concerned while still getting the Enlightenment bonus. Sunto is -20 and Resto is -25 as you stated, but they're also subject to Chaos Steals unlike your Bubble.

I start 70 Rage in PvP. Assuming troops are there, for the time being, that's +6 to 76 Rage. If I drop a Thunderer next putting me at 38 Rage and start my Sunto, but then out comes the Intercept + Amnesia. I hang on the Sunto at 0 Rage, lose my action and if LB & HS are gone, I just giggle as the Thrasher Slow hits me next . I will be stuck default attacking until I can awaken.

That's why I don't Thunderer vs. Knights until I see 5 skills used and none are Intercept. That combo can end anyone when played right, and you'd be surprised how many use it well.

Also, you never have "overheal" with Agoran. I've cast a Resto that would crit and overheal me 300k. I think the two powers are actually fairly even all told - especially since each has a counter with Agoran being dispelable, and Resto being jacked via Chaos. Overheal and lack of Crits offensively made me go back to using EWD in PvP. My typical Resto is about 100k - 130k HP with a max talent to boost it. I have about 550k HP unbuffed. That's ~20% of my max HP, same as the Bubble.

As i said before apollo last 1 turn less since you have to count it has to be used before awaken and -30 damage on 200% skill is not the same as 70% on 250/470% skill.

Then use it better. Don't speed-cast on awaken. Hell, don't speed-awaken. Use the full action by timing it to reduce more 30% attacks. You likely still have your heal rune in your pocket after all. Why rush the Shield?

I find it funny that you think that a Mage (or Archer) always uses the Guardian to catch the two strongest attacks. Like other players don't fish the Guardian with a 200% attack and then use their Basic Pet attack next to clear it and then throw the Delphic.

Dw doesn't bypass pdef, either dw is broken or your pdef count, the description is weird anyway and if can avoid it, just carry puri (following your idea that knight should bring useless skill in pvp).

Bleeds are definitely buggy. I run very high PDef for a Mage. Highest on my server by a bit. In CW / CSGB mode I'm running over 95k w/ Scrolls and Pots. In CW the Cerberus bleed wrecks me just as the DW bleed wrecks me. The bleeds routinely do more damage each tick than most delphics do. Hell, same thing in Spire L21. I can solo to L21 and even at that level I only take about 10k Damage per shot and 130k per shot when it nukes - but that friggin bleed keeps ticking off another 110k damage a turn. It's brutal and I can puri / heal enough to counter it while doing damage.

About chaos, will give you a fresh statistic i got today from the 2 bg i did, 1 procs out of 13 possible chance (not counting when chaos was on and opponent used a damage skill, just couting possible resto/sunt/aoe steal), will keep taking track about chaos % of procs and will let you know, atm to me it seem like 10/15% (ah btw my chaos is lvl 10).

By the same token, in 15 BG kills today I was Chaos'd 7 times before a Sunto or Resto and it was stolen 6 of the 7. It does seem to work less against offensive skills though. I'll give you that. Also - sometimes with Sunto, if my troops are up and I'm Chaos'd, even if it affects my side, it only affects my troops - not me - which is useless.

[PunkPetal]

No he mean puri, i got his point but apollo last 4 turn, -1 from awaken and -1 from puri leave 2 turn left on apollo and it's useless (it's basically as if a mage use guardian right after being hit by shock chain) it's way easier overall to get rid of that -30% debuff with a heal rune for a knight.

Aah, that would work then if the mage uses Herc, I only have a green one, Works equally well Vs a knight with Herc too using purge tho.

[Xeptone]

errr AdaJames

if u want to troll pls troll correctly youngster these days .... if u give them such a powerful tool as trolling they can even make mistake and troll the wrong person
sighz

and errr nope
u are suppose to wait
for a mage to sylph > while u Apollo shield bubble shield
Hercules will almost always use shock chain when transform >>> then u purify rune urself >> then sylph mode
If u are Apollo believe me the output of damage is so reduced
As Athena increase ur mdef as a sylph as passive increase
And its only 20 sec more before u can use heal rune by that time if his Hercules did not finish u off with his attack
U basically control the flow of battle

[Xeptone]

zorich I find it funny
why are we teaching knights how to kill a mage ?

are they really so brawn over brain that they nid to be spoon feed ?

[SlowPlay]

errr AdaJames

if u want to troll pls troll correctly youngster these days .... if u give them such a powerful tool as trolling they can even make mistake and troll the wrong person
sighz

and errr nope
u are suppose to wait
for a mage to sylph > while u Apollo shield bubble shield
Hercules will almost always use shock chain when transform >>> then u purify rune urself >> then sylph mode
If u are Apollo believe me the output of damage is so reduced
As Athena increase ur mdef as a sylph as passive increase
And its only 20 sec more before u can use heal rune by that time if his Hercules did not finish u off with his attack
U basically control the flow of battle

lol, 1st of all a same br mage can keep healing and never awaken while killing a knight.
Anyway let's say the opponent awaken straight away, if he use shock chain he's dumb, noone use shock chain before opponent awake it's like making a 3 turn debuff last 1 turn.So i'd be there, standing doing shield then apollo while getting hit (most likely 1st sylph hit will remove shield so it's a trade off of 1 turn) waiting opponent to use shock chain? It's same as those noob that use guardian right after you hit them with shock chain, but let's keep going.
Opponent doesn't use shock chain and i've got hitted 2 time already at least (shield, hit, apollo, hit) now i either keep waiting (and die) or go sylph since next hit will be on 50%, i decide to go sylph without shield at this point and with apollo with 3 turn left and i'm carryin a puri for nothing since i'll need to heal if not right away, the very next turn, this leave me with a 2 turn apollo and opponent still can hit me with shock chain+delphic and i'd be without heal rune, you think that's the smart way to play knight vs mage? lol dude.

[SlowPlay]

@Zorich, i'd like to see where it's been proved that heal rune used to heal 20% more on knight because i'm pretty sure it has never heal 20% more (but feel free to prove me wrong)

I understood what you ment but chance to crit is chance to crit, it doesn't increase damage just because it's luck based, same way a +5% crit scroll doesn't increase your damage or to make another example in the same way as having 20k or 25k crit doesn't make you crit more often.

I'm not so sure about that soon enough no troop, i've never seen a video of bg/ft with player using sylph instead of troop (if you have, link pls), sylph will be used more in pve for sure but pvp? The only video i've seen was about cw.

About intercept/trasher/amne, i don't have amne lvl 10 yet so you'll need to wait for me to try it out but this strategy sound more like stalling a pvp (more or less like mage that keep healing and don't do damage).

About apollo check my previous post regarding the "wait and get rekt" strategy. About guardian, all the skill i've on my hercules are 200%+ except shock chain and i see a ton of mage use guardian right after shock chain instead of waiting to use it when they need to use it (a 300k delphic against a 100k one is a huge difference, way higher then the damage you get if you delay guardian).

I'm sure dw doesn't bypass defence because it doesn't always do the same damage, can be 25k but it can also be 5k.

Will update you with more stat about chaos tonight after bg's and xgb

I think wd can work only for knight tbh, i'd never trade up crit heal with anything if i were a mage.

[Xeptone]

errr nobody ask u to use the same tatics again and again over and over again to produce the same winning result

ppl evolve to deal with ur tatics

ITS A BLOODY TATICAL GAME

sometimes the worst of the tatics might win u the battle why ?

Coz nobody prepared for it

[sprog]

I say cupcake.... hehehe

I've played all 3 and mage is effective in PVE and PVP. At 80 though a knight starts to roll on PVP. That's my present toon. in PVP some very big disadvantages to either archer or mage with Guardian rune. That thing is so OP. Can't be purged is the big thing. Can purge my shields but not this thing ridiculous advantage frankly in PVP. As for heals the mage gives up damage and frankly its a fair trade off IMO. As for crit it's a choice all 3 classes make though crit mage works great and crit archers a given. I'm testing out a non crit knight atm but with new patch and crit/pen astral I'll likely have to go back to crit based knight again. At least as a test. Generating enough damage in non sylph still the biggest challenge for knights. As for archers if you can't build and play an OP crit archer you just do not know the game.

[Zorich]

Just replying against thing's I feel like continuing the discussion on. Others we just may not see eye to eye, or you're requiring proof for the sake of proof (like asking to prove something that doesn't exist in the game anymore).

I understood what you ment but chance to crit is chance to crit, it doesn't increase damage just because it's luck based, same way a +5% crit scroll doesn't increase your damage or to make another example in the same way as having 20k or 25k crit doesn't make you crit more often.

I disagree. In PvE I'd concur, but in PvP where people run Guardian Angel, that % bonus to crit becomes huge. Having run Archers in the past I can tell you that being able to count on 75%+ Crit Rates in PvP is huge, even when your opponent has a Max GA. With an Advanced Astral slot just to L5 and a Max Deter, you're talking a 115% increase of damage from a Crit. Getting a Crit Hit at any given time may be viewed as luck, but statistics, over the long term, always average out.

About intercept/trasher/amne, i don't have amne lvl 10 yet so you'll need to wait for me to try it out but this strategy sound more like stalling a pvp (more or less like mage that keep healing and don't do damage).

If you can't put down a player that's been effectively shut down for 30 seconds of combat through that tactic - then you just shouldn't be beating them regardless of healing. It's not like they've had time to use it.

You're making it sound like a Mage should lose Healing, and Guardian and just be left with some AoE and a Sylph to try and win. By that token, I say we take away your bubble, apollo and delphics.

About apollo check my previous post regarding the "wait and get rekt" strategy. About guardian, all the skill i've on my hercules are 200%+ except shock chain and i see a ton of mage use guardian right after shock chain instead of waiting to use it when they need to use it (a 300k delphic against a 100k one is a huge difference, way higher then the damage you get if you delay guardian).

I'm sure dw doesn't bypass defence because it doesn't always do the same damage, can be 25k but it can also be 5k.

Just saying what I've experienced. It could be a bug issue. There's no reason that, as another example, when I'm soloing ToK NM I'm barely scratched by pet Delphics, but the Archer and Knight bleeds do 40k+ to me per action. I need to carry Puri just for those.

I think wd can work only for knight tbh, i'd never trade up crit heal with anything if i were a mage.

To effectively utilize crit-heals one has to forego GA. A 50% GA makes crit-heals, even when you're running 20k+ Crit, occur only about 33% of the time. That creates a huge vulnerability to Archers because it allows them better Rage Regen and much better damage over a long combat. Really, it just makes you take more damage than you're healing off in the end against equal competition.

A Mage using EWD is an Anti-Archer Mage and, IMO, a CW Mage. I'm not quite a 600k BR Mage and I've taken 700k Archers and Mages, but 600k Knights with good strategy give me fits. The best Knight I've dropped was 650k and was using brute force because he underestimated me.

[llivetorace]

the heals are out of control needs to be a % or point limit

[Xeptone]

hp % increase passive is out of control for knights and archers

they nid to cap the increase to 40 k hp