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Battle Speed (Why do my opponents get more attack opportunities?)

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  • Battle Speed (Why do my opponents get more attack opportunities?)

    So, I've noticed that during most of my battles, my opponents are getting multiple back-to-back striking opportunities, whereas I only get one. For example, during a match (against a player or in-game enemy), my opponent(s) will strike twice before I do. Then, a few turns later, it'll happen again. Is my character lacking something that makes them slower in a fight? Is it related to how fast I select the skills I plan to use (and the QTE bonuses)? This problem has caused some rather depressing defeats (e.g. my opponent and I are down to our last bit of HP and rather than using my turn to attack and win they get a 2nd attack which kills me). Errrrgggg!!

    Okay, thanks for the help.

    Oh! Also, I have a question about Knight skills (e.g. Delphic Destroyer, Whirlwind, etc.). Are these skills considered "Magic Attacks"? If so, is it helpful for me to focus on increasing my magic attack level? Will it make the skills more powerful?

  • KS222
    replied
    Originally posted by infin1465 View Post
    The sylph attack is usually listed as (patk+matk)/2 for the toon + patk/matk for the sylph. That is how your toon's primary attack defines how your sylph hits. So, although your toon is matk based, increasing your patk makes a small difference in your sylph attacks. This is why your scrolls work too.
    That's how its listed, but testing it, I don't see it working that way. Even with floating damage, I would hit harder if my patk "fluff BR" was counted. I tend to test by recording solo arena fights and then calculating the average attack value over 10 matches. Then do the same thing next day, but with whatever I'm testing (see if patk pot works, for instance) on. If the average is about the same, then there isn't an effect. If the average is higher, then there might be something going on. Testing with patk pot, there was no noticeable increase in attack. Withe patk scroll, my sylph attack was slightly higher, but toon attack was not. With matk scroll on, both sylph and toon hit harder, but sylph's harder hits were different from when I was using the patk scroll (implying that it was adding my higher matk into the sylph's attack, but not directly increasing the sylph's attack by 5%). I'd probably get more foolproof results if I was able to compile info from thousands of fights rather than just 10. Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of time, so I put up with the fact my results might be flawed due to the effect of floating damage on a given day.

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  • KS222
    replied
    Originally posted by Jediay View Post
    All inaccurate... it's because you're opponent is double hitting you. It's that simple.
    There are ways to double hit though. Sometimes lag is the culprit. Sometimes its because you cue a slower skill and they cue 2 faster ones. Sometimes its because that millisecond delay from slow actually does some good and lets you sneak another hit in.

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  • MrFancyPants
    replied
    Originally posted by infin1465 View Post
    The sylph attack is usually listed as (patk+matk)/2 for the toon + patk/matk for the sylph. That is how your toon's primary attack defines how your sylph hits. So, although your toon is matk based, increasing your patk makes a small difference in your sylph attacks. This is why your scrolls work too.
    I don't know about scrolls, that's a pretty small effect to try and pick out of the random damage range, but I'm pretty sure your off attack stat doesn't apply ever. My matk is fully 30% of my patk, so it's not that small a number, and I'm definitely not seeing that much extra damage when sylphed.

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  • infin1465
    replied
    Originally posted by KS222 View Post
    There are people who say that and its kind of hard to test with floating damage. However, from what I've seen (mage using patk sylph), when you sylph, it takes your highest attack stat and converts/adds it to your sylph attack. If it used my patk rather than my matk stat, I'd hit much weaker. One thing that I have tested and seen works is Patk/Matk scrolls. When I have patk scroll active and I sylph, the scroll does boost my sylph's attack.
    The sylph attack is usually listed as (patk+matk)/2 for the toon + patk/matk for the sylph. That is how your toon's primary attack defines how your sylph hits. So, although your toon is matk based, increasing your patk makes a small difference in your sylph attacks. This is why your scrolls work too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jediay
    replied
    All inaccurate... it's because you're opponent is double hitting you. It's that simple.

    Leave a comment:


  • KS222
    replied
    Originally posted by DreamFrenzy View Post
    I was told to up MATK in Academy for when u sylph mode it is taken into the stats if u using a MATK sylph.
    There are people who say that and its kind of hard to test with floating damage. However, from what I've seen (mage using patk sylph), when you sylph, it takes your highest attack stat and converts/adds it to your sylph attack. If it used my patk rather than my matk stat, I'd hit much weaker. One thing that I have tested and seen works is Patk/Matk scrolls. When I have patk scroll active and I sylph, the scroll does boost my sylph's attack.

    Leave a comment:


  • KS222
    replied
    Due to the animation, knight skills are some of the slowest to proc in the game. It may be you're getting double hit because you're cuing some of your slower skills and they are cuing some of their faster skills. I know my archer can often get away with an autohit/AP combo before a knight DD or EDD will proc (a useful cheap shot when they are low HP).

    As others have already said, all knight skills are Patk. If you use an Matk sylph, then you are Matk when transformed. However, increasing Int/Matk stat on toon does not make your sylph hit harder. You would focus on Int for the sylph, not your toon, to make the sylph hit harder.

    Originally posted by Anomie View Post
    I disagree. Deep Freeze looks as if it works in PvP - player hit by icon. However there is zero slowing effect. I no longer bother equipping it for BG or CW, but when I am hit by it I still do just as many attacks as my opponent. If it worked, you would see the Top players using it in CW - as someone who has been in Warlords Hall for a year now - I have never, ever seen it used during finals.
    It does work in PvP, just isn't very noticeable. When I am slowed, if I cast a skill that takes same amount of time to cast as opponent and the opponent is not lagging (or has same lag as me), the opponent will strike first. If I am slowed and cast thunderer (1.5 turns to cast), the opponent can hit me with 2 fast skills before thunderer procs. When Herc uses its slow attack against Cerberus (the "knight" of sylphs as far as casting speed goes), Herc can often double hit before the slower attacks like Inflammation will proc.

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  • R226329038
    replied
    QTE do slow you down if you take time to complete it, i use this when i want to earn some time lol.
    Also, in addition to a not so good connexion, it can make you lose a lot of time xD (time for you to see the QTE pop, time for you to properly enter the inputs then time for your connexion to send back the info)

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  • DreamFrenzy
    replied
    Originally posted by Mentor_WTT View Post
    To your last question, all knights attacks are PATK. The only reason any knight would build MATK in Academy is purely for 'fake BR'.
    I was told to up MATK in Academy for when u sylph mode it is taken into the stats if u using a MATK sylph.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tranc3motion
    replied
    Again, slow is not binary. Slowing someone doesn't guarantee a double attack. Slow adds milliseconds to the opponent's casting time depending on what they cast. You double attack when your two skills happen to execute during the casting time of one of their.

    You also have to add in milliseconds for the animation to load, the skill bar being available, the lag of entering the command, the lag of registering the command, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nightfish
    replied
    slow works in pvp only if u do auto attack .... however if u use skills it absolutely have no effect


    and now to your question about speed of attacks ,through expiriance of playing game I had, the more qte bonus attack have the more its slower (so if u use with knight EDD (which is very slow skill) and mage use lighting bolt he can do it 2 times maybe even heal and lighting bolt and similar combo , depending on lag ) u can try for example to see this speed use with mage rain of fire/meteor and knight whirlwind and mage will cast first aoe or archer lunatic and mage rain of fire/meteor mage will cast it first


    and now there is also glitch so that skills aint grayed so when u casting one skill u can hit next skill which will be casted right after (provided it isn't slow skill like edd or bl which I mentioned in above)

    to easy produce glitch use skill than when skill is casting(animation) hit space( sylph awaken) when awaken animation hit any skill or rune (after that ur skills wont be grayed and when sylph skill icon above your head is ready to be casted ur skill and rune bar wont be grayed,than u just hit 1.2.3.4.5 button or rune and u will produce double attacks

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  • Tranc3motion
    replied
    Lol, next you're going to tell me that double hitting (pre-queue similar to wb) doesn't work in PvP either.
    Last edited by Tranc3motion; 03-13-2015, 05:06 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • rangelaeyes
    replied
    Just because the debuff applies to a person, does not mean it actually works. From BGs to duels to class wars, never once have I seen a slowing effect actually work. Thunderer is the slowest cast time of all Mage skills, while under the effects of a slow debuff, it still takes exactly the same length of time to cast it as it normally does.

    I do not give false information, I give information based on my own observations.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrFancyPants
    replied
    OK, first off, a lot of knight skills are slow to cast, so if you try whirlwind, shield, or shadow thrasher, you're already going to be moving slowly, so that gives your opponent a chance for an extra hit, if they use faster skills. Slasher and ultimate slasher are fairly quick to cast, so make those your primary alternating skills in solo combat.

    Second, the skill cast time starts counting from when you hit the skill button. I don't think the time you spend in QTE matters, although just having a QTE countdown has been shown to slow certain skills, notably intercept. I.e. intercept level 2-3 will always be slower than intercept level 1.

    Third, slow effects do work in pvp, and have some impact, but it is not very much. You can see it dramatically if you are letting your toon auto-attack and get slowed. You'll get double hit in every round, pretty much. But if you choose a skill as soon as it's possible to select one, the slow effect will be minimal. The thing to keep in mind is that skill cast times are usually a lot less than the actual time between attacks, due to the animations and the time watching your opponent attack. So if your skill has a 1s cast time, and you're slowed, that's a 2s cast time, but that's still way less than the ~4s between your attacks in a regular fight. But if you're deciding which skill to take for a few seconds, that extra cast time can make a difference.
    Note: no one knows the actual cast times for any skills or exactly how slow affects them, this is all from my years of observations and discussions with other players.

    Also, if you have a laggy computer or connection, that will slow down your ability to select your next skill, which means you can get doubled on a lot easier. So some players will be disproportionately affected by slow, while others will barely notice. That's probably the main factor behind the disagreements here.

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