Knight Attack Speed

[Zorich]

I've noticed that Knights get a lot of extra attacks in now. Has this always been and I've missed it, or is this a new thing? I have a feeling it as to do with the Advanced Talent "Reverse Attack." Here's what's happening:

Knights who don't pick a skill always get a freebie attack off to start, we've known that. Their "default attack" is ridiculously fast, but now I've noticed that Knights will go into pet mode, blow the best two skills and then just default attack the rest of the time. In battles I've taken as many as 12 Default Attacks in addition to the two big hits (Athena Pet) for a total of 14 Attacks. And the default attack still does pretty good damage.

While I'm in speed-cast mode I'm only getting off like 8 attacks before my awakening ends. So a Knight's "AFK" Pet Mode is getting nearly 2:1 better attacks over speed cast. This has also been exhibited in PvE where Knights run away with damage in WB and Guild Beast now. A 625k BR Knight just two days ago using this did 160 Million Damage to the WB (32 Mil Payout for the event).

Can this be right?

[Wraithraiser]

The talent is a bit, buggy to say the least. In close fights if I'm low on HP vs opponent with low HP I just stop casting, works a lot better than hoping a skill will outspeed. Has some pros, some cons as far as talents go, it is somewhat advantageous if you know how to use it.

[Zorich]

Yeah, I've also gotten confirmation that in PvE, going into "AFK" mode for a knight will not only do 2-3 attacks per turn now, but it will invoke skills that are still on CD. One Knight in my guild using AFK mode w/ Hercules is getting as many as 12 attacks and getting off the Delphic 2x in a WB Sylph rotation because AFK mode calls it up when it's still unavailable.

But that really don't bother me. PvE is PvE. I'm just a little annoyed that in PvP, if I'm not in speed cast vs. a Knight, I'm literally taking 3x default hits for every 1 attack I get off now. Fighting a Knight of equal BR and relatively equal resists (that's kinda key - resists drive a lot of the game now) puts me on my heels once the first pet awaken happens. With the exceptions of doing Bubble, Apollo and Intercept, a Knight can just default attack and average the equivalent of a 300% skill every turn.

[JeffExtreme]

Yeah, I've also gotten confirmation that in PvE, going into "AFK" mode for a knight will not only do 2-3 attacks per turn now, but it will invoke skills that are still on CD. One Knight in my guild using AFK mode w/ Hercules is getting as many as 12 attacks and getting off the Delphic 2x in a WB Sylph rotation because AFK mode calls it up when it's still unavailable.

What!!! I must have the worst AFK luck.

[MrFancyPants]

I don't think they're getting that many attacks in, I certainly don't get anywhere near 2-3 per turn. For WB, using Hercules, afk will consistently follow this pattern for me:
rune + awaken + afk, flash storm, flash storm, short circuit + delphic, delphic, jupiter's wrath

So I only get one actual double attack, but the doubling up of delphic and flash storm adds up to a lot of damage. Possibly switching out of afk and back in at the right times could net more attacks, but I haven't had much luck with it yet.

Just like with slow, auto-attacks are the most affected by the new talent. Sometimes they go off before I have a chance to even pick the next skill, so it has some drawbacks. But the fast auto is very nice for clearing debuffs (except for slow, ofc).
The strategy to just let a sylph auto probably works best for fast animating ones, like athena. Gaia can't possibly fit in that many, I don't think.

I still expect them to nerf the talent, since it's got so many favorable glitches, plus a few oddities, like that it counts as a debuff for puri/purge. I.e. it can't be scattered but does go away if puri'd.

[pietjeprecies]

I've noticed that Knights get a lot of extra attacks in now. Has this always been and I've missed it, or is this a new thing? I have a feeling it as to do with the Advanced Talent "Reverse Attack." Here's what's happening:

Knights who don't pick a skill always get a freebie attack off to start, we've known that. Their "default attack" is ridiculously fast, but now I've noticed that Knights will go into pet mode, blow the best two skills and then just default attack the rest of the time. In battles I've taken as many as 12 Default Attacks in addition to the two big hits (Athena Pet) for a total of 14 Attacks. And the default attack still does pretty good damage.

While I'm in speed-cast mode I'm only getting off like 8 attacks before my awakening ends. So a Knight's "AFK" Pet Mode is getting nearly 2:1 better attacks over speed cast. This has also been exhibited in PvE where Knights run away with damage in WB and Guild Beast now. A 625k BR Knight just two days ago using this did 160 Million Damage to the WB (32 Mil Payout for the event).

Can this be right?

Is this the great Zorich whining for some knight skill that is bugged like hell and doesnt help you most of the times?

Biggest bug in the game are mage's tho.

[R238423534]

Neither the knight talent nor AFK mode had any glitch in your case. The player you described is just a lagger. If you are lagging bad, your animation can't catch up with server timing, that's why your skills are still shown as unavailable when the server already determines that it is available. The same animation lag also applies to HP, rage & sylph awakening points. I know this well because I play on a mobile device half the time, and AFK mode constantly cast the skills while they were still on CD or my rage was still lower than that required by the skill, & it awakened my sylph when my awakening points were less than half full. But that never happened when I played on a real gaming machine with fast & stable connection. This is consistent across servers & character classes, so lag is the only cause of it.

One Knight in my guild using AFK mode w/ Hercules is getting as many as 12 attacks and getting off the Delphic 2x in a WB Sylph rotation because AFK mode calls it up when it's still unavailable.

[Zorich]

Neither the knight talent nor AFK mode had any glitch in your case. The player you described is just a lagger. If you are lagging bad, your animation can't catch up with server timing, that's why your skills are still shown as unavailable when the server already determines that it is available. The same animation lag also applies to HP, rage & sylph awakening points. I know this well because I play on a mobile device half the time, and AFK mode constantly cast the skills while they were still on CD or my rage was still lower than that required by the skill, & it awakened my sylph when my awakening points were less than half full. But that never happened when I played on a real gaming machine with fast & stable connection. This is consistent across servers & character classes, so lag is the only cause of it.

WB Fights never allow a Pet Delphic to come back off CD in time (normally), even if you lead with awaken and throw the Delphic ASAP. The Knight AFK mode is bugged in that it allows it's reuse before it's off CD. Sometimes immediately. Please refer to what MrFancyPants wrote

For WB, using Hercules, afk will consistently follow this pattern for me:
rune + awaken + afk, flash storm, flash storm, short circuit + delphic, delphic, jupiter's wrath

That's what my guild buddy (who's a 625k+ BR Knight) told me. Double Delphics. Those are doing 2 Mil+ each, without WB Balen buffs. His pet rounds, unbuffed, are getting him 1.2 Mil to 1.5 Mil Gold & Daru each, so that's 6 Mil - 7.5 Mil total damage per unbuffed pet run. I believe he's going manual initially until the delphic is in queue, then going afk, and it pulls the delphic again. It's allowing him to get off all 4 non-default powers in 2 rounds, and then AFK the last 3 rounds of pet mode with unavailable skills coming up.

Try it - it could up your damage significantly. Need to be lag free though to get those initial shots off. If you've got any lag, or an unfavorable WB attack pattern w/ your pets going, you'll only get 1 round of 2x shots manually instead of both.

[pietjeprecies]

Your point being?

Remember back in the days WB's could be slowed?
Knights were shafted for the time it took to fix that, now you just have to wait till they fix this skill.

Please dont write another bestseller about a bugged talent that they likely fix and destroy in the near future.
Outside afk ing on pve bosses, the talent does not let you cast skills so it only does some auto attacks extra and basicly destroys your combo's.
Its not as OP or useful as you make it look like.

But knowing you, you will come back with a reply with endless non valid arguments why knights are OP and mage's need more % heal on each heal skill.

[Zorich]

Is this the great Zorich whining for some knight skill that is bugged like hell and doesnt help you most of the times?

Biggest bug in the game are mage's tho.

Wah. Keep complaining about Guardian, Sunto and Resto and completely ignore that the latter two are stolen by Chaos while your Bubble (which is about the same as a EWD Mage's Resto at equal BR in terms of HP loss prevention) is immune to it. Ignore that at the 50% mark an Intercept is essentially a full rage drain in most circumstances (-75 Rage) which results in a stun effect if something was queue'd that now can't be cast. Ignore that Intercept + Amnesia is a shut-down maneuver. Ignore that you're running an innate +20% HP, 7% DR and +5% Crit Reduce that a Mage can't get. Ignore that you've got talents (Tyranny and Deliverance) that give a 21% Damage Boost and 14% DR, respectively, when they trigger. Mage's have no such amplifiers or reducers. Oh, we can up the heal on our Resto by 65% - but doubling the CD time. Meh.

All Mages have are Heals and Pet Mode. We've got the worst DPS, worst HP and worst PDef. We've got the worst Rage Regen that we drop a ridiculous 7 skill points into because broken across 3 passives that all suck, even combined. We have no innate damage boosters. We have the worst damage mitigation.

I see Knights lose more vs. Mage because they're all using Electro Sylphs and they're getting resisted like mad. Mages learned early that we need to pin Elec Resist. Most of us on the high end run at least 2 Elec Dims, some of us run 3 or 4. An equal BR Knight running an Athena will generally wreck a Mage - since most Mages run Gaia and have little or negative Light Resist, focusing more on Elec, Dark and Fire/Wind. Triton is a good choice for a Knight too. 300% Attack w/ 25s CD and extended awakening lets it get used 3 times. A 30% HP Shield and Heals along with that are huge. Just gotta make sure you've got at least 2 Elec Dims and L6+ Elec Gems to counteract the resist weakness.

[Zorich]

Remember back in the days WB's could be slowed?
Knights were shafted for the time it took to fix that, now you just have to wait till they fix this skill.

Dude, WB could be slowed for a total of less than 3 weeks before it went away, and it benefited Archers - not Mages. It's not like the Mage had a consistent slow at that point. Ours was 50% chance for only 2 rounds and 50 Rage to use. Mage and Knight were in the same boat needing a Mire Rune.

it only does some auto attacks extra and basicly destroys your combo's.
Its not as OP or useful as you make it look like.

Oh, only a few extra auto attacks and breaks up combos. Only. Yeah, it's useless. I wish my class did so much damage that I looked down upon a 100% Damage attack coming for free - repeatedly - as "not useful." Lets not even mention that the rate of your auto-attacks essentially makes Amnesia a useless rune against you.

Don't you hear yourself?!

[pietjeprecies]

Dude, WB could be slowed for a total of less than 3 weeks before it went away, and it benefited Archers - not Mages. It's not like the Mage had a consistent slow at that point. Ours was 50% chance for only 2 rounds and 50 Rage to use. Mage and Knight were in the same boat needing a Mire Rune.

How is 50% change on a skill the same as no slow skill at all ?
You have some twisted mind on how to compare things with each other.

But you might just be all cash and just suck balls, since the top mage's on my server did get extra turns on wb back then.

Oh, only a few extra auto attacks and breaks up combos. Only. Yeah, it's useless. I wish my class did so much damage that I looked down upon a 100% Damage attack coming for free - repeatedly - as "not useful." Lets not even mention that the rate of your auto-attacks essentially makes Amnesia a useless rune against you.

Don't you hear yourself?!

Again, you just suck balls, it doesnt matter if i spawn 2 delphics in 4 turns or 4 auto attacks, 2 heals and all is for nothing anyway.

[MrFancyPants]

Oh, only a few extra auto attacks and breaks up combos. Only. Yeah, it's useless. I wish my class did so much damage that I looked down upon a 100% Damage attack coming for free - repeatedly - as "not useful." Lets not even mention that the rate of your auto-attacks essentially makes Amnesia a useless rune against you.

Don't you hear yourself?!

I find that a lot of the time, that "free" auto attack will push back my actual chosen skill to after the opponent's attack, unless they're casting something slow. So that's the down side to it, replacing the 130% or 227% attack with a 100%. Of course if it works, you're getting effectively 230% or 337%, so I'm not going to complain too much. Especially now that I've gotten used to it so it doesn't catch my off guard so much.

And if you pair amnesia with thunderer, that bigger slow does overpower the speed buff. Even without a slow, the auto attacks won't double on fast skills, so I'd hardly call it useless. Definitely less effective though.

[Zorich]

I find that a lot of the time, that "free" auto attack will push back my actual chosen skill to after the opponent's attack, unless they're casting something slow. So that's the down side to it, replacing the 130% or 227% attack with a 100%. Of course if it works, you're getting effectively 230% or 337%, so I'm not going to complain too much. Especially now that I've gotten used to it so it doesn't catch my off guard so much.

And if you pair amnesia with thunderer, that bigger slow does overpower the speed buff. Even without a slow, the auto attacks won't double on fast skills, so I'd hardly call it useless. Definitely less effective though.

I've tried the Amnesia + Thunderer pair now that I've got it at 100% to slow w/ the Adv Talent. It's not really good as a combo. Thunderer is only a 2-Round slow, and really the key combo is the rage Loss from Intercept + Amnesia that wrecks people. I do see how it can be useful in countering the speed effect where default attacks are concerned. Wish it was a 3-round duration though since it's pretty much insta-cleared on an awaken + rune.

But again, I love using Intercept w/ my Knight Alt. I save it for when a Mage pulls Thunderer or an Archer pulls DS and/or Incend. It's effectively a stun because they lose the slow-cast skill when it would normally complete AND it takes them out of speed-cast. I'm working on getting his Amnesia up higher. Once that's getting 5 skills it's gonna be awesome.

And thanks for the civil discussion man. I appreciate it.

[Zorich]

How is 50% change on a skill the same as no slow skill at all ?
You have some twisted mind on how to compare things with each other.

But you might just be all cash and just suck balls, since the top mage's on my server did get extra turns on wb back then.

Because it's unreliable. A Knight that had the Mire Rune was far better off than a Mage w/ Thunderer. Also, remember that Archers Incend + Guardian were the 1st class to start surviving WB big hits. Then Knights w/ Bubble were doing it. Mages were the last to be able to survive it because unlike other classes, our Resto DR was replaced by our Guardian - they didn't stack - and we had 20% less base HP than Archers & Knights. Funny though, most Mages (not all) didn't complain about it and just worked towards emulating it in time.

Again, you just suck balls, it doesnt matter if i spawn 2 delphics in 4 turns or 4 auto attacks, 2 heals and all is for nothing anyway.

This is exactly what I mean when I say some people are irrational. I've been trying to explain that an equal-BR Knight's Adv Heal Rune is consistently healing more HP than non-Critical Resto or BL. My Resto tops out at about 150k. And a Mage w/ Max Survival Talent can't Resto twice in 4 Turns unless they intentionally slow-cast. It's a 29s CD.

Btw - I gave you negative feedback for personal insults. I see you've gotten bent when others have given you negatives without "quote(ing) it and explain(ing) why they neg it." So I'm just letting you know.

I hope you show me the same courtesy when you retaliate, assuming the down-vote from 4 hours ago isn't already from you, though I kinda think it is.