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  • Zorich
    started a topic Knight Attack Speed

    Knight Attack Speed

    I've noticed that Knights get a lot of extra attacks in now. Has this always been and I've missed it, or is this a new thing? I have a feeling it as to do with the Advanced Talent "Reverse Attack." Here's what's happening:

    Knights who don't pick a skill always get a freebie attack off to start, we've known that. Their "default attack" is ridiculously fast, but now I've noticed that Knights will go into pet mode, blow the best two skills and then just default attack the rest of the time. In battles I've taken as many as 12 Default Attacks in addition to the two big hits (Athena Pet) for a total of 14 Attacks. And the default attack still does pretty good damage.

    While I'm in speed-cast mode I'm only getting off like 8 attacks before my awakening ends. So a Knight's "AFK" Pet Mode is getting nearly 2:1 better attacks over speed cast. This has also been exhibited in PvE where Knights run away with damage in WB and Guild Beast now. A 625k BR Knight just two days ago using this did 160 Million Damage to the WB (32 Mil Payout for the event).

    Can this be right?

  • JeffExtreme
    replied
    Originally posted by pietjeprecies View Post
    Great way to show you being a real adult.
    Actually it does because he didn't stoop to his level. Just because you don't agree with Zorich (I often don't either), it isn't a free pass to take shots at him. Only one person around here includes an insult with every single post, and it's not Zorich.

    Leave a comment:


  • pietjeprecies
    replied
    Originally posted by Zorich View Post
    Decided I'm not going to stoop to you level and make up quotes attributed to people.

    Way to reveal your character daunapu. You're a real winner! I'm sure your parents must be so proud.
    Great way to show you being a real adult.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zorich
    replied
    Originally posted by daunapu View Post
    * removed*
    Decided I'm not going to stoop to you level and make up quotes attributed to people.

    Way to reveal your character daunapu. You're a real winner! I'm sure your parents must be so proud.
    Last edited by Zorich; 04-07-2015, 11:38 AM.

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  • daunapu
    replied
    Since you are worried about pulling your words out of context, let me quote you my actual response to your knight "tactics"

    Originally posted by daunapu View Post
    Zorich you talk about end game analysis and people who have maxed talents or close to it and then say you use ultimate slasher to gain rage, everything after this is irrelevant, your credibility is below 0
    And about editing your posts about dimension, because of something you didnt took into account....should we expect to edit your knights posts, because of something you didnt notice too?

    And who is giving ridiculous examples? Me or you? Who is talking about 4-5 awakenings? Or stacking high lvl dimensions, something that maybe 10% of the players can do if not less? Probably the only reason i havent found more flaws in your "theories" is because i havent tested them myself.

    And where did you see insults towards you in my posts?

    To me, you look like an extremely ego centered person, who just likes the sound of his voice, the essays he writes, no matter right or wrong

    Originally posted by Zorich View Post
    I agree with all you say, I am an awfull person and need someone to tell me this from time to time
    There, HAD a good one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zorich
    replied
    Originally posted by daunapu View Post
    No amigo, actually i am done with you and your amazing tactics and examples. *word vomit*
    You obviously can't handle going over 2 sentences without resorting to exaggeration and insults. It's all good.

    Nice bit of d-baggery there though. Pulling a quote from over a year ago out of context in today's game and only giving it a partial. Suits your style well. So who's the one "political talking" now son?

    Guess what, at that time, I wasn't playing max-talents on my Knight and it was SO damn good then I was using a style that exclusively targeted the player via HS, Ulti, Bubble, Ulti, Apollo, Ulti Awaken - game over. But yeah, you throw your year-old partial quote if it makes you feel better .

    As to the other partial regarding dimensions and the Int chest drop rate - you left out my follow up...

    "Now one thing I haven't accounted for at this point is the Dim Nerf as was pointed out in an earlier post. I do not know if the Dim Nerf affects chest drop rate. I was already running all Adv and Expert Dims by the time it happened, so I can't gauge, but what I can say is this - in the entire time I've run Adv Dims across the span of 3 months or so I've only gotten 2 Adv Chests - though I do seem to get an Adv Dim Essence like at like a 10% clip."
    I thought I was done with you - but I can't let your lies stand. So as long as you manage to keep lying and necro-posting out of context with regards to me, I guess we'll keep this little exercise up.

    Oh, and I can necro-quote you out of context too!

    Originally posted by daunapu View Post
    And no item or mount or even sylph is gamebreaking.
    Well, it seems that since the Guardian Rune was an acquired ITEM, it's not gamebreaking. Your own words. Looks like you've been contradicting yourself all this time.

    Have a good one.

    Leave a comment:


  • daunapu
    replied
    Originally posted by Zorich View Post
    You know what - I'm actually done with you.

    All you can do is complain about "too many words" and ignore the argument and then selectively leave out quoted text that destroys your argument.
    No amigo, actually i am done with you and your amazing tactics and examples. You come here and try to convince us how guardian rune is just so-so and knights actually have better skills/passives etc ** while every mage, archer and their dogs use the rune in pvp. You make up numbers to support your theories and dress them in lots of words. Thats called political talking, to say nothing or completley wrong things in a way others will think you actually have a clue what you are saying.

    And here I will quote more of your numbers you base your theories on:

    Originally posted by Zorich View Post
    Intermediate Dimensions however, when completed, seem to drop a chest every 3rd or 4th day, and those Int chests - about 1 in 5 will become Advanced. And 1 in 10 of those will go Expert. I've found that by cycling 5 Int Dimensions you'll make, on average, 1-2 Adv Dim a week and an Expert about once every 6 weeks or so. You could literally stockpile about 25 - 30 Adv Dims and 3 Expert Dims between CSGBs if we get another 4 Months off from it.
    So either we are all drowning in advanced maps or you are talking total nonsense, which one is true? Who here has 25-30 adv maps in inv or getting an adv map from 1 of 5 int chests?

    And my favorite since as a knight i cant forget such utter ****:

    Originally posted by Zorich View Post
    My style is a bit different, I use Ulti to gain Rage

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  • Zorich
    replied
    Originally posted by daunapu View Post
    A perfect example why your ocean of words, make absolutely no sense for anyone but you:

    A 500k hps knights shield for 100 800 hp, cant even guess where is this 300k heal on demand from, basically you are right only for the 7% damage reduction
    You know what - I'm actually done with you.

    All you can do is complain about "too many words" and ignore the argument and then selectively leave out quoted text that destroys your argument.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zorich
    replied
    Originally posted by daunapu View Post
    A perfect example why your ocean of words, make absolutely no sense for anyone but you:

    A 500k hps knights shield for 100 800 hp, cant even guess where is this 300k heal on demand from, basically you are right only for the 7% damage reduction
    Another one! You insist people make no sense, but can't comprehend basic math and then embarrass yourself with your own retort!

    500k AVAILABLE! Go back to the post and read it again. Because the Knight would have taken damage down from the 600k Max. 50% of 600k is 300k. Need a calculator?

    Leave a comment:


  • SlowPlay
    replied
    Too lazy to do once again the whole quote thingy, just explain me this, if mdef is brutal against mage, isn't it brutal against knight too? And as you said you can pop guardian right after while, guess what, knight can't, so we'll have to take 2 hit with -30% mdef (1 turn removed from heal rune ofc) while you can just use guardian and have 2 turn to deal as much damage as you want without having to bother about damage taken. Ah btw, if you use guardian right after mdef debuff against me you're dead

    Edit after some test, no matter which skill are ready my afk always does shock chain first, someone else with shockchain willing to test?
    Last edited by SlowPlay; 04-06-2015, 05:22 PM.

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  • Wraithraiser
    replied
    Originally posted by daunapu View Post
    A perfect example why your ocean of words, make absolutely no sense for anyone but you:

    A 500k hps knights shield for 100 800 hp, cant even guess where is this 300k heal on demand from, basically you are right only for the 7% damage reduction
    I'm guessing max heal rune (which you'd need 600k HP for to get 300k heal not 500k) but yea.

    Leave a comment:


  • daunapu
    replied
    Originally posted by Zorich View Post
    The Knight, on the other hand, mitigates all attacks at 7%, 3 of those Attacks at +30%, has 500k HP available, a 120k HP Bubble and a 300k Heal Trigger in his back pocket. That's 920k HP the Mage has to go through compared to the 710k a Knight has to go through - less the damage mitigation factors - which while favoring the Mage IF they can time it for the big-hit, over the length of the full awaken, favors the Knight.
    A perfect example why your ocean of words, make absolutely no sense for anyone but you:

    A 500k hps knights shield for 100 800 hp, cant even guess where is this 300k heal on demand from, basically you are right only for the 7% damage reduction

    Leave a comment:


  • KS222
    replied
    Originally posted by Zorich View Post
    I think you've hit the nail on the head here. Not counting resists, which throws a new level of complexity into it, Mages have issues with the Hades and Cerberus pets, BR bring equal. Hercules as well with the MDef debuffer - but once that thing is up on us, we just pop guardian more often than not. In particular the Cerberus Bleed and the Hades 2-Round Healing Debuffer are brutal against us if played right.
    If played right are the key words. I see a lot of players make dumb mistakes. I suspect it this is due to the rewards focusing on quantity of kills, not quality of fights. We get rewarded the best for fast and easy kills, but fast and easy kills don't help us learn to play well. Skills like Devil's Gaze are very potent when used at the right time (I use it in ToK nm to nerf mage heals at the end of sylph round; we have one mage that frequently is in nm and is never nerfed/naked). Bleed is great in long fights. Chaos seems to be mindlessly spammed for fast rage or fast damage; its rare to see players use it intelligently for heal theft/prevention.

    Note: For all those amnesia spammers in arena: if amnesia hits same person multiple times, the skills that are blocked change with each amnesia that hits. I got hit with 3 amnesia runes in a row and it was almost like the rune wasn't there at all; the first rune blocked what I needed, but next rune unblocked it and holding down the button allowed me to use it, even when last rune blocked it again. The fight didn't last long enough to see if duration of rune is extended or if it ends after first rune would have; I assume the duration would reset because it looked like each rune replaced the previous one (1 of the runes blocked only 4 skills instead of 5).

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  • KS222
    replied
    Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
    If you mean mage goes pet and knight do edd, it does litteraly no damage compared to the hit mage will do with pet (pet defense add to player stat when on pet form so yeah, not a good way to use edd), if you mean edd before going pet (not on 50%) mage will heal right after easly, if you wanna try edd on 50% mage just have to go pet and nuke, he'll do far more damage. Don't see this as a good strategy. Also said somewhere else edd is not worth it anymore as a skill, it was worth before pet because you could use it on 50% and do a ton of damage but use it on the 1st min of fight is a waste of rage (better do dw and spam more us that hurt way more).
    That's not what I mean. The extra defense from going into sylph mode nerfs those hard hits. It sounds as though your typical fights are different from mine. For me, when I have significant BR advantage, I generally win before sylph mode. In a fight vs someone closer to my BR, it depends on defense and resistance. It isn't uncommon to survive past sylph round. In that instance, pet round is done; can't transform again for a few turns. Mage is going to want to heal and knight uses amnesia to try to shut it down, then follows up with big hits. With that knight passive advanced talent, they often manage to get some free auto hits in while those big hits are cued. The idea is shut down heals and finish them off fast. If it doesn't work, you at least force them to try to heal spam while you're transforming for sylph round 2. Its pretty hard to tank those hits untransformed when you're fighting someone near your BR, so trying to out heal spam it is often suicide.

    If you rarely last past sylph round 1, the strategy probably doesn't work well for you.

    Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
    "In bonus time", no we can't talk about bonus time, told you already, fight that last after pet are 1 out of 10 maybe, it's not an averange fight. And using amne before pet on a mage to prevent him from healing is a huge gamble, 1st because most player go around with at least 65+ starting rage now, 2nd because you won't have amne ready when on pet which is when you really need it to try to lock guardian and some pet skill. Again don't see this as a good strategy.
    I talk about bonus time because fights where the other player stands a chance of beating me are generally fights that go into bonus time. I have good defense and fairly high res and I use a patk sylph. Fighting strong knights or archers/mages with high res to my element, it is pretty easy to go into bonus time. It sounds as though your fights are different; either win before sylph round 1 ends or dead?
    Even in short fights, using bonus time to your advantage can be a help. Usually 50% time hits during sylph round. There are quite a few players in such a rush to delph that they do it before bonus time hits; in a close fight, that extra damage could have given them a win.

    Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
    Yeah if some knight has some problem killing mage, that's most likely the way to go. As you said tough it's not so worth it keep a rune that works only on mage heal and archer ss which make amne a better choice overall (at least for me, maybe some other knight like to steal mage heal).
    Both runes fulfill a defensive function. I consider amnesia better overall because it always blocks skills; maybe not the ones you want/need blocked, but it does always work. It is a better all around rune because it is equally effective vs every class/sylph (unless someone brings puri). I've seen high level chaos used in 1 vs 1 in two ways: attempt heal theft and heal prevention (few will cue heal when chaosed because they do not want to heal opponent). In a way, level 10 chaos may be better than amnesia for heal prevention because they'd have to be desperate to chance having the heal stolen; most will wait the three turns unless they are dead without a heal anyway.


    Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
    As said before, edd does easly overhealed damage before 50% and don't actually think any mage would be that dumb to guardian on edd instead of just using a restore/heal rune, might be a decent strategy combined with chaos (chaos, edd and hope they guardian or wait before going pet, go pet and nuke prayin crit god).
    It depends on the situation. I'll use guardian to block whatever hit needs to be blocked to win the fight. If an EDD will likely kill me unnerfed, I'll pop guardian, cue heal, then dish out damage of my own. It'll make sylph delphic harder to tank if fight lasts that long, but if I'm dead from EDD, worrying about sylph delphic is pointless.

    Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
    That's kinda my strategy (combined with amne) but sadly it's a nuke and hope to survive kind of strategy, i know knight have more hp then mage but we have way lower mdef and mage have higher matk then knight patk on averange (hats much) which mean knight does less damage on mage while mage does more damage on knight given same res and res red so don't think it's an easy task survive an hercules delphic for knight because it's not.
    Knights have lower MDef, but can compensate for it with build and Holy Forge, same as mages can compensate for our naturally lower pdef. I noticed the unbalance in hats vs weapons. There is also unbalance in clothing in general based on when you started playing and what platform you play on (some platforms have "exclusive" events; I know of one that has wings nobody else can get). If you have every possible weapon and fight a mage with every possible hat, the mage will have matk advantage. How often does that happen? I do agree that before they made clothing = stats, hat cost fewer event items to get, creating advantage for older mages vs anyone who did not cash to get all possible clothing items from events.
    Surviving Herc's nukes isn't easy for any class. Mages used to have an advantage, but that 30% debuff made Herc a mage killer. Because mages know that Herc is a very popular choice, we often get electro res as high as possible. Block, deflect, and Guardian Angel can also help (Guardian Angel also nerfs crit heals).

    Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
    I think u missed the anti mage sylph out there (except fire), aegis is the best sylph to use against mages (must have mdef buff passive), if mage have hercules you'll do patk damage while mage does matk and aegis is a more strategic sylph then hercules which make it fun to play too, if mage has dark well at least it's gonna be fun. Wind is a support pet, it's pretty op in arena for example but not that good on 1vs1, triton -200 electro is a suicide unless you're running electro dimensions and is also a support pet, not a 1vs1 pet, fire as i said is the real counter to mage with hercules and light is a joke of a sylph, crappy skill and also matk damage, not a good option against archer/knight and definitively a bad option against mages.
    I didn't miss it; I did not mention it because if you're picking a different element, its probably due to high resistance to the element you're currently using. Dark and electro are the most popular and are the ones virtually everyone defends against. Strong as I am, when I'm fighting someone with 1-2 expert dark dimensions up, I barely scratch them due to that high resistance. Dark is more tactical; Herc is brute force. Both are effective unless facing someone with stacked resistance. Fire is a good alternative if facing a mage who is super strong vs dark & electro.
    Wind and Water are more support oriented, but if you have a strong one, they can be very effective in PvP. Fewer defend against them, so you have a free damage bonus vs most players. Triton's weakness to electro and weakness to chaos makes it a bit of a sitting duck, but its heals and shield can counter Herc pretty well, long as Herc doesn't one shot you. Wind has 2 really hard hits, attack buff and res debuff. It isn't as hard hitting as Herc, but with fewer having resistance to it and with it being strong vs electro, it can be surprisingly good.
    Light was the original casher sylph and used to be the best sylph around (before dps sylphs and dark sylph were introduced). It has the same dps problem that mages do; lots of aoes, not much single target. It isn't as good for 1 vs 1 as dark, electro, and fire, but it is more effective than you'd think. Because it was the original casher sylph, older cashers are likely to have a pretty good one. Even some newer cashers have strong ones for benefit in sylph arena. Many players focus on dark and electro first (that's what most people use, after all). Its rare to come across someone with super high light res; light will often win where dark and electro fail. This is something I've witnessed. I've fought people who have such high dark res that I look like a little kid trying to hit them. A teammate with 1/2 my BR but a light sylph hits them like a runaway train (by comparison).
    It isn't possible to have scary high resistance to every element. If you find you don't hit very hard with one element and you have another sylph that is good, especially an off element that fewer defend against, you may find that you're suddenly shredding them.

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  • Zorich
    replied
    Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
    Also said somewhere else edd is not worth it anymore as a skill, it was worth before pet because you could use it on 50% and do a ton of damage but use it on the 1st min of fight is a waste of rage (better do dw and spam more us that hurt way more).
    Agree 100%. All attacks pre-awakening are kinda poop right now vs. the better players, and that's because of the use of max-resist.

    Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
    "In bonus time", no we can't talk about bonus time, told you already, fight that last after pet are 1 out of 10 maybe, it's not an averange fight. And using amne before pet on a mage to prevent him from healing is a huge gamble, 1st because most player go around with at least 65+ starting rage now, 2nd because you won't have amne ready when on pet which is when you really need it to try to lock guardian and some pet skill. Again don't see this as a good strategy.
    I gotta ask, are you targeting players of either significantly lower or higher BR than you most often? 10% seems like a very low rate to not go past the 1st pet awakening unless you're either hunting easy kills or taking on people significantly tougher than you.

    I would say that against opponents within 50k BR of me, it goes past the 1st pet round at least 50% of the time. Probably closer to 3 out of 4. Vs. 600k+ BR Knights in particular it tends to go through 2 awakenings, sometimes to a 3rd. Granted, I have a Gaia, so I'm using PAtk after awakening - which Knights withstand better.

    Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
    As said before, edd does easly overhealed damage before 50% and don't actually think any mage would be that dumb to guardian on edd instead of just using a restore/heal rune, might be a decent strategy combined with chaos (chaos, edd and hope they guardian or wait before going pet, go pet and nuke prayin crit god).
    Here's my Q. (sorry, this is long)

    If an EDD is doing so little damage that it and all the damage before it is so easily over-healed AND the vast majority of these fights (90% according to you) don't go past the 1st pet awakening AND a Mage can't both Heal Rune and Guardian Rune in Pet Mode (if they're timing Guardian to Delphic and the Knight is smart) - what is it that's the problem?

    Firstly, I agree with you on Damage pre-awakening. It's almost pointless. Those 6-7 "attacks" are basically going through the motions. I'm going to awaken near or at full HP as a Mage. A Knight is going to awaken with > 80% HP and a Bubble. Essentially it's just feeling out your opponent a little. I will admit that if I see my RoF does more than 30k Damage, then I'll drop Thunderers since they've likely got **** resist and I can maybe run off like 200k damage before awaken. But normally, I throw Sunto 2nd move to draw out a Chaos, knowing I'll have a resto now safe for use before awaken. Between those I'm just getting my rage up since an Intercept w/ low rage takes away my resto.

    However, now I'm going to go through some resist-neutral numbers - because resist is a complexity level on top of this, and I just want to deal with the base skill portion.

    If a Mage w/ 500k HP has taken 100k Damage before a 400k Crit-Resto goes off, they've wasted 300k Healing and only healed 100k, correct? Lets say they Resto then Sunto + Awaken. That's 30k Healing for 7 Turns for a total of 210k Heal - the 1st 3 ticks all likely over-healing, but we won't count that. Then they're pretty much out of healing until pet is done since they're saving for the OP Guardian Rune. So that's 500k HP post Resto + 210k Sunto = 710k HP to go through.

    If a Knight with 600k HP (20% more than the Mage) takes 100k Damage and throws a bubble and then Apollo before awakening, he's going to effectively negate the next 120k Damage (20%) directed at him, mitigate 30% damage on the next 3 attacks (losing one for the awaken) and still have a Heal Rune ready to go when the Bubble goes down for another 300k HP. He's also mitigating 7% More Damage on every attack than a Mage via his Passive - that adds up too across 8-10 pet sequence attacks.

    So that Mage, at 500k HP upon awakening, can take 710k damage, less the 70% mitigation of 2 attacks from Guardian Rune. When you awaken, why not keep pummeling him with non-delphics until he's forced to use the heal rune or prematurely guardian out of panic?

    The Knight, on the other hand, mitigates all attacks at 7%, 3 of those Attacks at +30%, has 500k HP available, a 120k HP Bubble and a 300k Heal Trigger in his back pocket. That's 920k HP the Mage has to go through compared to the 710k a Knight has to go through - less the damage mitigation factors - which while favoring the Mage IF they can time it for the big-hit, over the length of the full awaken, favors the Knight.

    I've said it time and time again, the biggest challenge I have are Knights with good anti-mage strategies - by long and far. Maybe it's because I run a PAtk pet - but most Mages do now, at least in my server time zone. Yeah, the Knight that throws an amnesia / chaos before I awaken and always calls up the delphic once 50% comes up - they go down easy. The Knight that baits me to throw my heal while doing 55k damage a shot with basic hits & a 40k default trickling in, keeping his heal ready and biding his time, he's more than capable of taking me down, usually on a 2nd pet sequence, because once we unpet, we go back to being useless. He gets another 50% Heal Rune (300k), Bubble (120k) and Apollo. I get 2 Restos (~150k Each - I'm EWD) and a Heal Rune - and we go at it again from essentially full, this time at 100% boost.

    Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
    That's kinda my strategy (combined with amne) but sadly it's a nuke and hope to survive kind of strategy, i know knight have more hp then mage but we have way lower mdef and mage have higher matk then knight patk on averange (hats much) which mean knight does less damage on mage while mage does more damage on knight given same res and res red so don't think it's an easy task survive an hercules delphic for knight because it's not.
    Well, yes and no. I won't argue that the Mage does have more MAtk available than a Knight has PAtk available - but it's really a level of casher thing.

    But the reality is that only the most excessive cashers both have all these items and, more importantly, have them to 5-star maximums. In my server cluster as an example (One that's been active since Apr 2013), the top Active Knight has his clothing Strength stat at 1444. The top Active Mage is 1180, I'm at 1116. We did have one heavy cashing Mage that was > 1400 - but he's left.

    Yes, based on the volume and quality of hats available in clothing over those #s of Weapons available, there's 380 more Intellect to be potentially obtained through 6 more A-grade items and 5 more B-grade items, less 1 D-grade item on the Weapon Side extra. That's +1520 MAtk and +380 MDef more than the PAtk/PDef that can be obtained by Knights / Archers.

    In raw numbers, that's 1,520 / 2 = 760 Damage per Strike, less DRs...

    Apply 14% Talent DR = 653
    Apply 7% Passive DR = 607
    Apply 35% Astral DR = 395 (Astral Slot Enhancement +5%)
    Apply Rank1 Medal 24% DR = 300

    I think you see what I'm getting at. Even at max, it's not really ground-breaking damage enhancement. Before resists are applied you're looking at an extra +900 Damage from a 200% Attack Skill at the 50% Bonus. +1800 if it Crits. Meh. Seems like a drop in the bucket for a pet round that must be doing 900k+ damage to end you, assuming it goes through a Bubble, Apollo and Heal Rune.

    Originally posted by SlowPlay View Post
    I think u missed the anti mage sylph out there (except fire), aegis is the best sylph to use against mages (must have mdef buff passive), if mage have hercules you'll do patk damage while mage does matk and aegis is a more strategic sylph then hercules which make it fun to play too, if mage has dark well at least it's gonna be fun. Wind is a support pet, it's pretty op in arena for example but not that good on 1vs1, triton -200 electro is a suicide unless you're running electro dimensions and is also a support pet, not a 1vs1 pet, fire as i said is the real counter to mage with hercules and light is a joke of a sylph, crappy skill and also matk damage, not a good option against archer/knight and definitively a bad option against mages.
    I think you've hit the nail on the head here. Not counting resists, which throws a new level of complexity into it, Mages have issues with the Hades and Cerberus pets, BR bring equal. Hercules as well with the MDef debuffer - but once that thing is up on us, we just pop guardian more often than not. In particular the Cerberus Bleed and the Hades 2-Round Healing Debuffer are brutal against us if played right.

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