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Block/HP instead of PDEF/MDEF

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  • Block/HP instead of PDEF/MDEF

    I've seen many players using socketed gems (mainly) and Astrals to increase:

    - PATK/MATK
    - CRIT
    - PDEF
    - MDEF

    Aside from the tiny variations to this pattern (eg: non-crit players who switch out CRIT for BLOCK or HP), I've seen that there's another recurring pattern especially amongst very strong players, such as:

    - PATK/MATK
    - CRIT
    - BLOCK
    - HP

    Is the 2nd setup good? In what cases? Did anyone try both configs? When is it suggested to switch from one to another?

    Thanks in advance for your comments.
    Last edited by GiordanoT88; 04-21-2015, 02:26 PM. Reason: readability

  • #2
    Depends a lot on preference. I prefer block over def, because it's a percentage decrease and is equally effective vs. matk as it is vs. patk.

    That said, there are diminishing returns and no one knows when those begin so I imagine no one goes fully one way or the other.
    Last edited by FufuBunnySlayer; 04-21-2015, 02:01 PM.

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    • #3
      I got the second pattern, patk/crit/block/hp gems. no def astrals, at this moment also no sniper astral, or i have to many crit rate.

      Im a knight, and always block good, have ca 22k block rate, and im a team player. In spire i block around 80-90%. For pvp is also good, always always on ewd and def stats, but for cw didnt help me much, put up a good fight, but i lost because the other did make more damage, and that was not 1 or 2 times, no from the 15 rounds, i had that 6 a 7 times, so no fun. Now on the stats im on now, i do much better, also in cw, its a real fight now. block, bit healing, and reflect/deflect etc. is way more fun playing for me.
      ING: Eukkie changed name to â€*Evilâ€*Witchâ€*, changed it back to Eukkie
      Server: S444 Silent Arena
      Char: Knight
      Lvl: 80
      Br: 6m and crowing.
      Main Sylph: Arise
      Guard: Oracle

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      • #4
        isn't penetration the reason why so many people stopped using bloc ?
        in European server, all the top knight are around 6k bloc
        RETIRED. Too much bugs, too time consuming, too few listening from Wartune
        Wartune : NonoBoulot : S181 : Archer

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        • #5
          maybe, but i dont do bg much, only arena, and stil if you have 22k block rate, that penetration i can have, less block is always better then no block at all.
          i do terrible in arena, so i dont look at that, but in team play, spire, mpd etc i do pretty good with the block, also can survive in DI with agron shield and with block i dont lose hp much, and heal myself, mage's dont need to use heal then.
          ING: Eukkie changed name to â€*Evilâ€*Witchâ€*, changed it back to Eukkie
          Server: S444 Silent Arena
          Char: Knight
          Lvl: 80
          Br: 6m and crowing.
          Main Sylph: Arise
          Guard: Oracle

          Comment


          • #6
            im only 15k block archer and already blocking 90% of hits in PvP.

            as for TC's question, i mix both combination. Left side gears with patk+hp+block+crit, right side gears with patk+hp+pdef+mdef.
            Originally posted by Wraithraiser
            Welcome to R2 forums. Where quality is nonexistent and quantity is only measured in the number of whines a single day can produce.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ArnaudBo View Post
              isn't penetration the reason why so many people stopped using bloc ?
              in European server, all the top knight are around 6k bloc
              Nah just nabs going for br.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by FufuBunnySlayer View Post
                Depends a lot on preference. I prefer block over def, because it's a percentage decrease and is equally effective vs. matk as it is vs. patk.

                That said, there are diminishing returns and no one knows when those begin so I imagine no one goes fully one way or the other.
                supposedly block works like crit with diminishing returns after 20% of defense stat. Dunno how true it is since you have mdef and pdef that can differ, but 20% of their average seems to work pretty good.

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                • #9
                  My stats at the moment, with patk/block/crit/hp gems lvl 11, and i have around 80/90% block in pve fights, pvp im not sure. So i dont use def gems and astrals. block is my def, and ofcourse the res chrystals. Sylph i use cerberus.

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                  ING: Eukkie changed name to â€*Evilâ€*Witchâ€*, changed it back to Eukkie
                  Server: S444 Silent Arena
                  Char: Knight
                  Lvl: 80
                  Br: 6m and crowing.
                  Main Sylph: Arise
                  Guard: Oracle

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Depends on how hard you get hit & how much you could take.
                    more hp is always desirable. but you also need the gem slots for other stats.
                    1k PDEF/MDEF is about 500 damage reduction, +/- some adjustments.
                    1k block is at most 10% chance to receive 25% damage reduction, so at most 2.5% damage reduction on average.
                    if you typically get hit above 20k, 1k block probably helps more than 1k def. but the more def u have, the less u got hit for.
                    defense & hp have no growth limit.
                    block above maybe 10k has diminishing returns.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by R238423534 View Post
                      Depends on how hard you get hit & how much you could take.
                      more hp is always desirable. but you also need the gem slots for other stats.
                      1k PDEF/MDEF is about 500 damage reduction, +/- some adjustments.
                      1k block is at most 10% chance to receive 25% damage reduction, so at most 2.5% damage reduction on average.
                      if you typically get hit above 20k, 1k block probably helps more than 1k def. but the more def u have, the less u got hit for.
                      defense & hp have no growth limit.
                      block above maybe 10k has diminishing returns.
                      If you say 1k block is 10% chance means 10k block is 100% chance, which is false both for PVE and PVP. I would consider block being capped like crit at around 50-60%, and like somebody said above, a 20% block value of your def (dunno what def or maybe total def) might be the best thing. What I did notice though is that opponent BR influences these stats. Weaker opponent means more crit/block, stronger opponent means less. I haven't done any testing, it's just my personal observation over a period of 2 months using block build (played with block stats just like with crit stats), so I decided to switch back to def build.
                      IGN: AncientEvil
                      Server: EU-271+merged
                      Class: Archer
                      Getting less Evil and more Ancient every day.

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                      • #12
                        Block as with crit maxes out at around 90-95% trigger rate, and for knights at least block reduces the damage taken by around 30-35% unless they have changed that as well, so for me as a knight i use a combo build of patk, crit. block def and hp. Dont know how this affects other classes, but keep in mind that doesnt mean that block above 10-12 k is useless, as i suspect there is a corrolation between probably hp and block as it is with atk and crit. And also seen differences in damage taken if i reduce my block ammount as well, i run at 23k block and if i reduce by around 2k i get a bit more damage overall.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ancev View Post
                          If you say 1k block is 10% chance means 10k block is 100% chance, which is false both for PVE and PVP. I would consider block being capped like crit at around 50-60%, and like somebody said above, a 20% block value of your def (dunno what def or maybe total def) might be the best thing. What I did notice though is that opponent BR influences these stats. Weaker opponent means more crit/block, stronger opponent means less. I haven't done any testing, it's just my personal observation over a period of 2 months using block build (played with block stats just like with crit stats), so I decided to switch back to def build.
                          from what I've heard, based on version 1.6, 100 block is AT MOST 1% block chance. your four numeric stats and the level difference between you and the opponent affect the actual block rate non-linearly. I believe 90% or something like that is the cap. I didn't do the experiment myself. I don't think the actual formula is public info. from my own experience, 100 block yields at most 1% is about right, but after 10k, which should yield at most 100%, I could block maybe some 60-85% for PvE or opponent has zero penetration. I guess what happens is that, above the 100% limit, block happens most of the time, but the system has to guarantee that you miss some, so even if you block almost all the time, you must have some non-blocks in each fight or over a certain number of turns. the same thing holds true for crit. I recently dropped back to 8k block, and added def & hp stats, but it did almost same as 16k block, so I'm going to stay with only 8k to save up space for other gems.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Shiva_ View Post
                            maybe, but i dont do bg much, only arena, and stil if you have 22k block rate, that penetration i can have, less block is always better then no block at all.
                            i do terrible in arena, so i dont look at that, but in team play, spire, mpd etc i do pretty good with the block, also can survive in DI with agron shield and with block i dont lose hp much, and heal myself, mage's dont need to use heal then.
                            even 100k br noob can survive with agron shield in DI.. basicly boss hits 100% of your hp and agron shield absorbs 20% of damage so u are left with 20% of your hp..
                            guardian rune dont work because it decreases not absorbs, iris shield works same as agron shield

                            Originally posted by Almera1 View Post
                            Block as with crit maxes out at around 90-95% trigger rate, and for knights at least block reduces the damage taken by around 30-35% unless they have changed that as well, so for me as a knight i use a combo build of patk, crit. block def and hp. Dont know how this affects other classes, but keep in mind that doesnt mean that block above 10-12 k is useless, as i suspect there is a corrolation between probably hp and block as it is with atk and crit. And also seen differences in damage taken if i reduce my block ammount as well, i run at 23k block and if i reduce by around 2k i get a bit more damage overall.
                            knights are diferent from other clases.. when i was runing 350k br archer (without eudaemons) i needed block for expert dimension otherwise was bad no chance for last boses..
                            but having 10-20k block didnt made much diference in damage, only in block rate.. so no reduce damage on higher block for other clases
                            Last edited by R282358633; 04-23-2015, 10:10 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Almera1 View Post
                              Block as with crit maxes out at around 90-95% trigger rate, and for knights at least block reduces the damage taken by around 30-35% unless they have changed that as well, so for me as a knight i use a combo build of patk, crit. block def and hp. Dont know how this affects other classes, but keep in mind that doesnt mean that block above 10-12 k is useless, as i suspect there is a corrolation between probably hp and block as it is with atk and crit. And also seen differences in damage taken if i reduce my block ammount as well, i run at 23k block and if i reduce by around 2k i get a bit more damage overall.
                              Higher block above 10k still consistently yields better results. Let's say, 20k block guarantees to have fewer misses than 10k block. Just the return being diminishing and less worthy. Without changing anything else, for me, 8k & 16k block worked almost same, just 1 or 2 extra misses per fight, which obviously didn't make a life-death difference, so I decided to go with 8k. I had relatively low defense so the extra def stats did help more than the extra 1 or 2 block chances. For people with high enough def I guess they might need to care about the 1 or 2 extra misses.

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