Why is it that R2 and Kabam Staff dont listen to the Community

[Froggster]

What was explicitly written in other thread by one of the moderators - R2Games does not have the product management function = they can resell only what 7road developers provide to them

So they maybe listen, but nobody listen to them at 7road

sry wrong!! the one that holds the licence for the game can decide what he wants in game and what he dont want (not the complete things but there are options they can decide to have or not to have and they decide about the cost of the items in shop, etc)
just take a look at the german version of wartune: they had functional auction house, could send items from 1 to another and become vip with bb to pay for (dont know if they still have cause stopped playin there, cause all friends left)



and in general: sure they would listen to community as long as community sends ticktes and they see its from a big whale, all comments from normal players or low cashers go directly into trash, cause all they listen too is money and thats all they think about whole day, not to make game fun and playyable but to rip the last cent out of ur wallet

[AdaJames]

Let me give you a real life example of a licensing and content customising scenario:

My company would like to upgrade its ERP system. They go to the market and discuss their needs with various suppliers of software (e.g., 7Road). They choose one of the suppliers. The supplier then installs, sets up and CUSTOMISE the software to suit my needs. After all, my company's needs would be different from, say, Air NZ.

The software supplier first understand my needs and wants, compare it with an existing programme that they have, and then adapts the programme to my company's needs. There are some things that they cannot do, of course. It would be unreasonable to expect an ERP software to cook my breakfast. But what it can do is set up a reminder for my secretary to do so before I arrive in the office every day.

But here is the kicker, I get to specify which part of the existing software that I do NOT want activated in my ERP system. I might not need a massive email alert system if my company is not a big multi-national, for example.

The auction house exists in Wartune. It is not the developer (i.e., 7Road) who dictated that it not be activated. It is the end user (i.e., R2) who does. To say that the dev is the one who controlled it or made the decision because they didn't supply the code is blatant bull. A supplier will not supply something if the customer does not want it. But to blame the supplier for not supplying it when the customer does not want it is deceptive, deceitful, fraudulent, low and honourless mutilation of the English language.

[P-J-J]

sry wrong!! the one that holds the licence for the game can decide what he wants in game and what he dont want (not the complete things but there are options they can decide to have or not to have and they decide about the cost of the items in shop, etc)
just take a look at the german version of wartune: they had functional auction house, could send items from 1 to another and become vip with bb to pay for (dont know if they still have cause stopped playin there, cause all friends left)



and in general: sure they would listen to community as long as community sends ticktes and they see its from a big whale, all comments from normal players or low cashers go directly into trash, cause all they listen too is money and thats all they think about whole day, not to make game fun and playyable but to rip the last cent out of ur wallet

Albeit Ada gave nice example,

there is still the legal point of view:
- publisher owns the Author rights = if some feature violates other software right, he can be sued. 7road is developer, publisher and owner of the licence

Distributor can through configuration customize the interface for individual market need, by blocking eg the auction house or by selecting other module - eudemons instead of kids, but the configuration option should be there from publisher. Which Proficient City decided as told by R2Games.
- and distributor owns sublicence, not licence (albeit it is named this way in some countries, the Author law is strict due to ownership of rights)
- and owns government licence to sell on respective market (usually government protecting somehow both the distributor and customers and wants VAT/tax as fee).

Reseller can further customize the product through customizing interface, or if value added, can add something approved by licensor (not sublicensor) through API.

The German reseller acts through other chain of reseller/distributor, where no-one blocked the auction house.

And topic of the discussion is if R2Games is not reseller connected to worldwide distributor Proficient City, but connected directly to 7road/ChangYou, they decided (even after agreement with Proficient City).

[Froggster]

sry bit wrong from me, just wanted to show that publishers can decide what they want in game or not. sure kabam has some rights to tell what they want , i dont think 7road blocks all options cause they dont want us to have auction house, cause after all dont think they really care about us as customers, alll they want is their money from the company that hired the licence, and as long as they pay they dont care if all they want is in the complete package 7 road offers as "their" product.

7road offers a package containing many options and im sure if u pay enough for ur licence u can order beside the basic game what ever they offer as an extra (in case of kabam they just dont want us to have the auction house) thats just what i wanted to say. and i they take us economics as basics to explain their prizes, then why is german prize cheaper the the us version ? wanna tell germans are poorer than us americans ? good joke tell this the german government so they might lower the taxes a bit ^^

[P-J-J]

sry bit wrong from me, just wanted to show that publishers can decide what they want in game or not. sure kabam has some rights to tell what they want , i dont think 7road blocks all options cause they dont want us to have auction house, cause after all dont think they really care about us as customers, alll they want is their money from the company that hired the licence, and as long as they pay they dont care if all they want is in the complete package 7 road offers as "their" product.

7road offers a package containing many options and im sure if u pay enough for ur licence u can order beside the basic game what ever they offer as an extra (in case of kabam they just dont want us to have the auction house) thats just what i wanted to say. and i they take us economics as basics to explain their prizes, then why is german prize cheaper the the us version ? wanna tell germans are poorer than us americans ? good joke tell this the german government so they might lower the taxes a bit ^^

As 7road owns the code, licence and change management between clones, they can be forced by distributors to either make the clones configurable or they can select what they want in the clone. Ie. Legend clone got sylphs few months ago, year after us.
And I think that the auction house option on/off they have perfectly paid from distributor.

Kabam for me is same branch of distribution as R2Games, so I assume the decision is made by distributor.

I feel that auction house, 60,000 ub price for fused sylphs and turning free advanced sepulchre to paid is greedy business strategy from publisher (whoever it is) do not respecting the game idea and playability, which in fact is more and more visible by illogical changes in drops (star tear shards), boring experience (sylph arena) or ignoring UX (why sylph and eudemon prioritization behave differently?).

This is why I simplified the equation: Auction House decision = clone owner, which can be publisher a/o distributor (in case it has delegated rights from publisher to switch features on/off). So at the same time nobody can be game publisher and does not own the decision made. For me being reseller is not reduction of importance (still the money flow through them), bad is to provide same "support" as R2 currently provide both in game support, testing and community announcements, not speaking about technology issues with the new portal.

This thread is about Community feedback loop that is ignored here. Until now I see no improvement or at least ownership of the issue, only fight on terminology.

Give you hint: On test servers are new features that can attract people, should we look at blogs, private FB pages that do better community work than people here?

[Arlad]

anyway, wartune-dot-com is owned by proficient city, not R2.
take that as you will.

[Barraind]

The more that gets posted about who makes what decisions, the less sense any of it makes why any of those decisions are made.

What I got from it is that R2 and ProCity need to agree on things that go in R2's version, but ProCity has features in its version that R2 doesnt have, despite them having to agree on what goes in the game versions...

R2 is a publisher. Proficient City is a publisher of the english language version of Wartune, along with R2, as a partnership (as in, both companies own the same license to publish the game according to the terms of the contract). That is where the relationship ends.

It is a partnership, and both partners need to agree on the content.

What ProC does, where they do it, and how they do it, doesn't matter to us.

Only it does matter, since they apparently have a say in everything r2 does, AND have the final say, given that

The devs won't send R2 the code for the auction house, which was intentionally removed because ProC doesn't want it.

Based on the response I got when I asked about the absurd pricing for the fused sylphs (which is not forum appropriate so cannot be shared), I'm positive that price was not R2's idea.

So from that cantankerous spew of nonsense over 9 posts from Mem, Procity runs the show, and r2 cannot do ANYTHING Procity doesnt want to do.

[P-J-J]

The more that gets posted about who makes what decisions, the less sense any of it makes why any of those decisions are made.

What I got from it is that R2 and ProCity need to agree on things that go in R2's version, but ProCity has features in its version that R2 doesnt have, despite them having to agree on what goes in the game versions...






Only it does matter, since they apparently have a say in everything r2 does, AND have the final say, given that





So from that cantankerous spew of nonsense over 9 posts from Mem, Procity runs the show, and r2 cannot do ANYTHING Procity doesnt want to do.

Despite above, in line with the original topic how R2 and Kabam have issue with listening for community:

1) R2 is fully responsible for late, incomplete and sometime not valid announcements
2) R2 is fully responsible for stopping to do manuals (seems 1.5 year outdated)
3) R2 is fully responsible for poor support system (why we need escalation so often?) and non-functional ticket registration emails [check what was written in announcement and situation now after 1 month]
4) R2 is fully responsible for prioritization of the issues from portal threads
5) R2 is fully responsible for informing their mentors/moderators about how things in game work, for example sharing of attributes between eudemon and main toon, fused sylph behaviour etc

[captsteverogers]

What was explicitly written in other thread by one of the moderators - R2Games does not have the product management function = they can resell only what 7road developers provide to them

So they maybe listen, but nobody listen to them at 7road

gotta go higher on the foodchain , r2 does all they can

[Froggster]

another problem is that they put different versions and options into one pool to let them fight in crossserver events. at least they should change this to give all the same chances (what seems against their politics anyway)

[P-J-J]

another problem is that they put different versions and options into one pool to let them fight in crossserver events. at least they should change this to give all the same chances (what seems against their politics anyway)

I see that pool is only pool of proxies, the issue is cluster for CW/TW etc, if not shared between clones, they can coexist freely in the same cloud by tuning dungeon times to have the proxies balanced over shared proxies.

But back to topic:
- you see the feedback we got with today's patch, even those biggest lag generators were not touched (damage/heal numbers), they hide toons/euds but not animations of own toon/eud skills?
- what was feedback here? Simply ignored or forwarded by people who do not care/do not understand.

Response to anonymous evaluator:
- Please check my text, and the original Lag reduction thread from R2. I also asked for hiding clothes, but this way how it is programmed it generates more lag.

[R2111470937]

The important detail is that the system creates multiple layers for passing the blame onto other entities ... even if all the different entities turn out to be one person under different company names.

[P-J-J]

The important detail is that the system creates multiple layers for passing the blame onto other entities ... even if all the different entities turn out to be one person under different company names.

As R2Games is not enlisted between 7road's publishers and distributors.

So maybe they are collocated, shared operation, participation on distribution ... but still reseller with chaotic and forwarding-only support and late community publishing.

[Swinella]

There seems to be an increasing level of unhappiness with the users. Users start trolling the R2 team. R2 team becomes annoyed with the constant whining and stops listening. Users increase trolling. R2 ignores the users further. User dissatisfaction increases. More trolling. R2 trolls back. Players troll and whine. R2 employees troll and whine.

Both parties think the other is a group of morons. Sadly, both parties would be correct.

[P-J-J]

This topic is not how we treat each other, I still see some good moderators, but some that are less good if not problematic.

We asked by title, why they do not listen to us and use feedback for planning.

In summary we got:
1) Community team is not in the change management loop, so they can only propose, but they are upstream in same situation like we are with R2 support (for me developers = black hole, or defy listener).
2) Community team is not well informed about topic of their work - some feel substitute for support, some feel reply machine with generic phrases, some even not read what they reply to, but still some of them have the clue
3) Community team is not well informed about game - mentors usually have only information they gather themselves, they can discuss it with other players-moderators/mentors; but rest of company is not involved

So in summary, community team is players and volunteers, instead of simplification of the feedback loop with the design team, they are creating Great Wall to protect us? developers? or maybe both? and stand in the middle.