Short End of the Stick?

[karacks]

Lets take a look at the first new Mage knighthood skill


Lets take a look at the first new Archer knighthood skill


Lets take a look at the first new Knight knighthood skill



Keep in mind all the new skills have similar hi rage costs across the 3 classes.
Knights and archers have new passives that further increase rage gain mage do not.
Archers have a passive in the survive skills that decrease enemy rage when attacking.

[AdaJames]

I have said many times that R2 staff play archers exclusively. This only proves my point.

[R238423534]

i'm archer & the only one got beat by people with less br than me (just got whopped by 3 knights & 1 mage in a duel before maint.), but teammates with 1m+ higher br than me aren't more helpful for group runs other than arena while i got to listen up coz they have higher br (even tho that jeopardizes 2 levels of DI each day for they brought 3 knight kids into it & refused to try wind ranger for even once). fair or not?

[AdaJames]

What's your point? You got lousy friends?

[MrFancyPants]

The rage gain differential is weird, since mages won't have the rage-reducing talents any more. And I don't recall seeing any rage gain passive boosts either (which archers do have). So that does seem like a giant middle finger to mages, especially with archers getting a rage steal passive skill too.

Keep your rage runes handy, I guess.

[SlowPlay]

Archer also get better requirement for knighthood (higher strenght required, tho without adv henna can't have both skill tree open).

[princestewii]

sigh, and when we were crying that the heals from mages were too OP they bashed us for being whiners and now that we got a rage advantage that knights had already the mages start to whine. Relax bruh, only the elites will experience this feature for a good period of time while the rest of us play catch up in an already unbalanced game. Got hit for over 1mil from a regular skill by a player who has knighthood including using my guard rune.

If you want to talk about short end of the stick all us normal players are getting it pushed in way deep

[dennyh]

any lubricant used or was the stick dry?

[Meikura001]

any lubricant used or was the stick dry?

Holy <expletive> <expletive>, Batman! Ouch.

Yeah, seems like this game's gone to Hell in a handbasket. If we haven't experience "Broke beyond Repair", this is quite it. Fairness has gone out the window. Cheats enjoy more, whale spenders enjoy more, and people who waited until R2 made monstrous fluff BRs enjoyed more. The day of the casual player are nearly long extinct. All our hard work down the tubes. Folks ask me why I haven't done stuff these days; well, this is the reason. I worked hard on these accounts and I am not going to get banned/lose items (even though I had neither happen to me) just because of brazen stupidity fueled by the mistakes of the provider.

As for knighthood, I know I don't spend, I know that it will take a very long time to get to that point, and I know I have to make a choice of which path I need to take. Some things will be good of it, and some won't be so appealing. I mean, look at the tattoo system where you get a boost in one stat while you get a reduction of another. There are days I had hoped for either INT (on archer), STR (on mages) or Charisma reductions (on both) along with the respective boosts.

[Alsatia01]

The rage gain differential is weird, since mages won't have the rage-reducing talents any more. And I don't recall seeing any rage gain passive boosts either (which archers do have). So that does seem like a giant middle finger to mages, especially with archers getting a rage steal passive skill too.

Keep your rage runes handy, I guess.

Are they completely gone though? I mean obviously you can't see the old talents or skills anymore, and you don't have the exact same skills anymore... but maybe just hidden? Video on youtube of a mage with the knighthood who still has holy seal..... so makes me wonder if there's more to it than that.

[Zorich]

Lets take a look at the first new Mage knighthood skill
[ATTACH=CONFIG]158021[/ATTACH]
Lets take a look at the first new Archer knighthood skill
[ATTACH=CONFIG]158022[/ATTACH]
Lets take a look at the first new Knight knighthood skill
[ATTACH=CONFIG]158096[/ATTACH]

Keep in mind all the new skills have similar hi rage costs across the 3 classes.
Knights and archers have new passives that further increase rage gain mage do not.
Archers have a passive in the survive skills that decrease enemy rage when attacking.

Well, lets go with what we know...

Each of these Knighthood Classes has 2 Standard Skills that either path gets.

The Mage (At L5 Skills) has:
- Thunder Gust 190% Damage, +10 Rage + Passive Effect: +20% MATK.
- Fiery Lotus 260% Damage (AoE) + Passive Effect: +20% HP, +30% MDEF

The Archer (At L5 Skills) has:
- Armed Shot 190% Damage, +20 Rage, 50% Crit Rate Boost of 50% + Passive Effect: +20% PATK, +30% Critical Damage
- Multi Shot 260% Damage x2 (520%), 50% Crit Rate Boost of 50% + Passive Effect: +20% HP

The Knight (At L5 Skills) has:
- Gash 260% Damage, +30 Rage + Passive Effect: +20% PATK
- Wrath Strike 380% Damage, 50% Chance of invoking 50% Damage Shield (2 turns). Passive Effect: +30% HP, +20% PDEF

Based on these raw skills, yes, the Mage is yet against on the short end for both damage and passives. Here's why...

All Classes get a 20% Attack Passive and at least 20% HP Passive. The Mage gets an additional 30% MDef Passive which is only good against unawakened Mages and non-merge MATK Sylphs. Merge Pets always attack lowest defense, which for a Mage, is PDEF. The Archer gets an all-the-time awesome +30% Damage boost on Criticals. This is HUGE. That turns his 520% Damage Multi Shot into an equivalent 675% Damage when they Crit. The Knight's passive bonus is +20% PDEF (good against 2 unawakened classes, not useful vs. Merged Sylphs) and an extra +10% HP. The HP boost is nice, and is a good buff for BR and Sylph Troops in a CW environment.

As to the active Basic Skills...

The Knight as usual gets the massive Rage benefit. The Archer both gains and loses - they lost the +5 Rage per Crit, but have a solid +20 Rage Gain action. The Mage takes it in the rear twice... First having the lowest Rage Regen at +10 and 2nd in losing the Skills & Talent Triggers to reduce rage when advancing to Knighthood. The Mage is actually WORSE off in terms of Rage than before.

The Archer gets the pure DPS benefit (two skills combine for alternating 710% vs. a Single Target, before Crit Damage Boosting). The Knight's a distant but respectable 2nd (640% Damage per two alternating actions, ~10% less than the Archer). The Mage is an distant 3rd (450% Damage per alternating actions, nearly 40% less damage than the Archer). The ONLY time the AoE Effect of the Fiery Lotus is worthwhile is the first hit which clears troops in BG Fights and in Group Battles like Titan Wars - however, it's still a weak effect comparatively due to the active AoE Skills both Archers (400% AoE) and Knight (280% AoE + 150% in AoE Bleeds = 430% AoE) can get.

Based on just the Basic Skills and Passives (before choosing a path), the Mage is the weakest in all measurable categories except for having the better basic AoE.

[R238423534]

What's your point? You got lousy friends?

those aren't even "friends" by my definition. just merely a bunch of people needing a teammate. my real "friends" (as in maxed friendliness & still in contact outside of game) on that server had been gone for long. i don't spend on any server where i'm not the sweetheart (title holder). i stand up to my claims.

[R238423534]

Well, lets go with what we know...

Each of these Knighthood Classes has 2 Standard Skills that either path gets.

The Mage (At L5 Skills) has:
- Thunder Gust 190% Damage, +10 Rage + Passive Effect: +20% MATK.
- Fiery Lotus 260% Damage (AoE) + Passive Effect: +20% HP, +30% MDEF

The Archer (At L5 Skills) has:
- Armed Shot 190% Damage, +20 Rage, 50% Crit Rate Boost of 50% + Passive Effect: +20% PATK, +30% Critical Damage
- Multi Shot 260% Damage x2 (520%), 50% Crit Rate Boost of 50% + Passive Effect: +20% HP

The Knight (At L5 Skills) has:
- Gash 260% Damage, +30 Rage + Passive Effect: +20% PATK
- Wrath Strike 380% Damage, 50% Chance of invoking 50% Damage Shield (2 turns). Passive Effect: +30% HP, +20% PDEF

Based on these raw skills, yes, the Mage is yet against on the short end for both damage and passives. Here's why...

All Classes get a 20% Attack Passive and at least 20% HP Passive. The Mage gets an additional 30% MDef Passive which is only good against unawakened Mages and non-merge MATK Sylphs. Merge Pets always attack lowest defense, which for a Mage, is PDEF. The Archer gets an all-the-time awesome +30% Damage boost on Criticals. This is HUGE. That turns his 520% Damage Multi Shot into an equivalent 675% Damage when they Crit. The Knight's passive bonus is +20% PDEF (good against 2 unawakened classes, not useful vs. Merged Sylphs) and an extra +10% HP. The HP boost is nice, and is a good buff for BR and Sylph Troops in a CW environment.

As to the active Basic Skills...

The Knight as usual gets the massive Rage benefit. The Archer both gains and loses - they lost the +5 Rage per Crit, but have a solid +20 Rage Gain action. The Mage takes it in the rear twice... First having the lowest Rage Regen at +10 and 2nd in losing the Skills & Talent Triggers to reduce rage when advancing to Knighthood. The Mage is actually WORSE off in terms of Rage than before.

The Archer gets the pure DPS benefit (two skills combine for alternating 710% vs. a Single Target, before Crit Damage Boosting). The Knight's a distant but respectable 2nd (640% Damage per two alternating actions, ~10% less than the Archer). The Mage is an distant 3rd (450% Damage per alternating actions, nearly 40% less damage than the Archer). The ONLY time the AoE Effect of the Fiery Lotus is worthwhile is the first hit which clears troops in BG Fights and in Group Battles like Titan Wars - however, it's still a weak effect comparatively due to the active AoE Skills both Archers (400% AoE) and Knight (280% AoE + 150% in AoE Bleeds = 430% AoE) can get.

Based on just the Basic Skills and Passives (before choosing a path), the Mage is the weakest in all measurable categories except for having the better basic AoE.

IMO mages have been receiving the short end of most things since Class Advancement had been introduced. In the good old days (3 years ago), it used to be the pwns-all class that required less investment to achieve the same. But not any more. After eudaemons were introduced, almost every event/activity favors the other 2 classes more. Maybe that's some sort of "payback" on the sweeter early days, or maybe the game is really approaching Apocalypse. I had tried to convince myself to continue on with my mage (which had been hit by a lost mail accident 9 months ago), but lost interest & gave up. Ironically, my archer was also hit by the same incident recently, while I still picked her as my only one (I retired the knight).

I'm not looking forward to this knighthood craze, not only because it's (currently) a casher event, but more because it's destruction to our existing build. Knighthood essentially destroys the old toon & gives a new toon with higher stats, but all skills/talents/etc. are new, which requires a restart from scratch. Even the rage regain & skill behavior are different, which essentially means we either have to max EVERY stat or redo our stat mix (and subsequently, clothing level as well) to suit this new skill set. Besides, although the old skills are much weaker, each skill has their unique purpose & usefulness, & every member of a team contributes using their own build strength & skill rotation ability, while this new skill set basically turns everyone into an OP character of some sort & lacks the comprehensive structure of the old skills.

[SlowPlay]

Zorich you like to write wot and whine a bit too much about mage tbh. Will reply only about the passive part because i'm lazy.

The Mage gets an additional 30% MDef Passive which is only good against unawakened Mages and non-merge MATK Sylphs. Merge Pets always attack lowest defense, which for a Mage, is PDEF.

Wrong, freya/frigga attack is MATK and the passive don't change his attack type but his defence type so the 30% more mdef is awesome against freya/frigga (things change if both players have a merge pet ofc but i'll play your whiny game).

The Archer gets an all-the-time awesome +30% Damage boost on Criticals. This is HUGE.

True, archer always had higher damage (better for pve) but unless you copy/pasted wrong they don't get a defence bonus which kinda counter it (doesn't make it even but it's no more the +20% damage they have now)

The Knight's passive bonus is +20% PDEF (good against 2 unawakened classes, not useful vs. Merged Sylphs) and an extra +10% HP. The HP boost is nice, and is a good buff for BR and Sylph Troops in a CW environment.

That bold part it's a rhetorical trick to make people think that passive is better than others. It's not. If a knight face another knight, they both have the same passive. If a knight face an archer, the archer has a damage boost while of 30% while knight have a def boost of 20%, overall archer win. If a knight face a mage, both don't care of the defence passive because it's of the other kind of damage. Basically what you said it's pointless. You're right tho that it's useless against merge sylph because freya/frigga use matk and the other 2 will also use matk against a knight.

The hp boost is nice and i agree. All that "br and sylph troop in cw enviroment" is something you did add that is, once again, useless. On cw knight face other knight so it doesn't even matter. About BR, it's more about pride than anything else. Knight have easier life being top in rank and the only event where higher br is usefull is chaos war to be top 40 (tho i'm not sure that there's a server that can have the whole top 40 online on preliminar or finals) and a possible HOF event (which if it'll ever come again, i'll be a lot surprised). Also title for top 1/10 has become so old that you don't even see the difference if you lose them (i had the br rank bug and i saw that only because a guildie told me i wasn't where i should have been, lost 2 title and didn't even notice).

My idea of passive is that overall it's even, mage get a good passive against frigga that it's the main sylph on every pvp event except class war maybe, archer get a good passive to deal more damage but lack of defence, knight get more hp which is good because increase the amount you can heal with rune/sunt. Won't talk about the skill untill i see every single skill and effect.

[Alsatia01]

- Multi Shot 260% Damage x2 (520%), 50% Crit Rate Boost of 50% + Passive Effect: +20% HP

I don't think its counted as 520%. Every source I see shows it working exactly like the regular multi-shot; cumulative damage of 260%.

Can anyone confirm?