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R2...not fair..

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  • #16
    Sure, you can, but do I give a flying <expletive>? Not really.

    You know why? Because what you said back there was ancient history as it has no value in this day and age. Sorry to burst your bubble on that.

    And maybe the reason why I know somewhat is because my account seen some battle scars (number of posts and activity) whereas I can't really say the same for yours (just 3 posts). So do me a favor and pucker those lips elsewhere for my <expletive> doesn't need them.
    Vicious! Approach with Caution!
    Because some noob has called me such and had said it so
    Mobile Strike Player: Base 1102 / Com 550 / 672* Power / VIP 1300
    Dissidia Final Fantasy - Opera Omnia: Rank 60

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    • #17
      Originally posted by R229619798 View Post
      feedback section/ hot events/recent event changes! votes are 5 to 72+ that they DONT like the new event system and they complain about it...
      That poll on the forums is garbage. It merely says 'Do you like the new event system?'. I could not come up with a more vague question if I tried. There are a lot of different aspects and variables that go into the events, and to sum it up like that and get those results is like asking "What's 2+2?" and being shocked when the vast majority of people say '4'.

      Originally posted by R229619798 View Post
      and btw next time u got diferent opinion with smthing cut the sarcasm it does show how high is ur IQ
      Please don't go down the 'IQ' road....

      Originally posted by Meikura001 View Post
      Not saying that the same thing is happening here; and not saying that it doesn't. However, if it does, I am sure the staff on here are having a really hard time trying to get in contact with the devs to let them know. It's a good thing I am not a moderator here, else I would have lost the position the same day when I will up and tell the development staff to get their heads out of their <expletive>es and get it in gear towards making the game great again. Personally, I do not hold anything against the mods, admins, or mentors of this forum since they are just like us.
      I agree.

      The moderators here on the forums seem to be pretty decent at their jobs, and overall pretty knowledgeable. Of course there are some hiccups or some missteps every now and again, but as to be expected. The real problem I have, is the disconnect between the mods and their employers, and the developers. I cannot count how many times a mod has told me they would poke the ticket fairies on their side to look into my ticket; which is still unresolved since last year.

      So, either the moderators have told me several dozen times that they would relay my tickets, and haven't - or it's a different department that's cupcaking up. The solution seems obvious to me with two words - Occam's Razor.
      Last edited by Alsatia01; 04-08-2016, 01:29 AM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mentor_Magik View Post
        We do understand the frustration especially over the recent events, however this is not a bug and it is still a free to play game. Some people, yes, play for certain added things in game, and that is their right and privilege.. such as VIP... items in the flash sale, hot shop and the like.. I know it can seem incredibly unfair, but please know, the game is free to play.
        just because a game is F2P doesnt mean its exempt of criticism, let alone of said business model

        How can anyone seriously defend what R2Games has been doing with their games, one has to wonder

        how come that games like LoL, Warframe or even DFO managed to have a business model that

        1.doesnt feel like putting a huge paywall
        2.doesnt make free users second class players
        3. is actually balanced?


        feel free to do some quick search over google and see what the majority of players think about R2, you would be surprised.
        Last edited by R233163926; 04-10-2016, 04:04 AM.

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        • #19
          Oh, so now you have a problem with the entire business model?

          Look, it is simple: No one is forcing you to play this game. You don't like it, fine, there's the door.

          There is a line between legitimate complaints and concerns, and completely UNREASONABLE, EXAGGERATED, ILLOGICAL, DECEITFUL wailings. Saying that Wartune is not free to play is far into the realm of the latter. It is clear as day that it is, and just because you and most of the players hate R2 doesn't make it any more truthful.

          Get your head out of your *** and learn that just because you THINK that something should be the way you want it to be does NOT make it real or even correct. Frequently, it is NOT.

          Reality is a nasty female canine, and you either accept it or end up in the loony bin, and NONE of your complaining, whining, crying of "unfair! unfair!" will change that. You take your pick.

          AND GROW THE HELL UP!
          Last edited by AdaJames; 04-10-2016, 04:27 AM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by R233163926 View Post
            how come that games like LoL, Warframe or even DFO managed to have a business model that

            1.doesnt feel like putting a huge paywall
            2.doesnt make free users second class players
            3. is actually balanced?
            I answered that one page back.

            Originally posted by Alsatia01 View Post
            There are 4~ different types of games from what I've seen.

            1) The completely free games.
            2) The free games that offer an 'item mall' for mostly cosmetic changes; game-play largely unaffected.
            3) P2W games, like Wartune. More money has direct causation on win/benefit.
            4) P2P games (most games), you pay a certain amount, and you are able to play with the full benefit. The game is more about the game; skill/expertise/strategy/etc.

            In my opinion, the 3rd is the worst setup. From a business perspective, it makes the most money though; R2/Proficient City are businesses, not game companies.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by AdaJames View Post
              How is it fair you get to play for free and R2 has to pick up the bills for the server and other infrastructure?

              If you are a free player, the LAST THING you can complain about is getting unfair treatment. You can complain about bugs, you can complain about hackers and bug abusers, but NOT fairness. You want fair, then start PAYING like the spenders. THEN, you have a right to complain about fairness.
              yeah so unless we are dropping a couple of grand on the game like the whales we arent allowed to voice our opinion about the game, right?

              listen, the problem here isnt the fact that there are microtransactions, perfectly fine by me

              the problem here and its the big literaly giant elephant in the room: THE BALANCING!

              any game where CC warriors can literally annihiliate people who cant afford to spend money on the game is a business model that I consider to be abysmal but then again thats probably the norm with these games. Its not about making it possible for freeloaders to get on the top of leaderboard but rather making the game fun for everyone to play, without basically handicapping free players in artifical ways to get them paying (and I consider building cooldowns and such to be nothing but tools of such)
              Last edited by R233163926; 04-10-2016, 07:05 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by AdaJames View Post

                There is a line between legitimate complaints and concerns, and completely UNREASONABLE, EXAGGERATED, ILLOGICAL, DECEITFUL wailings. Saying that Wartune is not free to play is far into the realm of the latter. It is clear as day that it is, and just because you and most of the players hate R2 doesn't make it any more truthful.
                Although i would have agreed with that a while back, at this point in the game i think i have to disagree. It used to be free to play .. this is no longer that. Free to play doesnt just mean being able to login for free. It's one thing if ppl can buy mounts and stuf for br but the game went in a totally different direction which actually makes it not free to play. I can name a lot of games with monthly fees where they let u play for free to a certain level, or with access to only a map. If loging in for free is what makes a game free then almost every game on this planet is free as most of them let you try them out with limitations regarding latest expansion and stuff like that, holly molly guess what.. just like wartune now. So loging in doesnt make them free does it? as they are obviously monthly fee games. If u no longer have free access to the basic stuff of a game like talents and dungeons that game is no longer free to play. With this new patch there will be a total of 3 dungeons that u dont have access to, also the new talents u dont have access to , although they are BASIC things in any game and not smth to pay for in any free to play game. Main point..when it is no longer just about buying br but also about buying access to main content ( dungeons/talents) that game is no longer free to play for the obvious reason that the main content is not free which is the basis of any other free to play game. So in my humble opinion taking in consideration a wide area of games..this game stopped being f2p about 2-3 patches ago whenever they introduced the 2 new dungeons and new talents. Just my 2 cents.
                Last edited by Darkwise; 04-10-2016, 08:04 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by AdaJames View Post
                  Oh, so now you have a problem with the entire business model?

                  Look, it is simple: No one is forcing you to play this game. You don't like it, fine, there's the door.

                  There is a line between legitimate complaints and concerns, and completely UNREASONABLE, EXAGGERATED, ILLOGICAL, DECEITFUL wailings. Saying that Wartune is not free to play is far into the realm of the latter. It is clear as day that it is, and just because you and most of the players hate R2 doesn't make it any more truthful.

                  Get your head out of your *** and learn that just because you THINK that something should be the way you want it to be does NOT make it real or even correct. Frequently, it is NOT.

                  Reality is a nasty female canine, and you either accept it or end up in the loony bin, and NONE of your complaining, whining, crying of "unfair! unfair!" will change that. You take your pick.

                  AND GROW THE HELL UP!
                  classic just ignore it excuse

                  this is the behaviour that does more damage than good, when people just ignore every **** companies do

                  oh well, I suppose R2Games will start to care when people will vote with their wallet.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Darkwise View Post
                    Although i would have agreed with that a while back, at this point in the game i think i have to disagree. It used to be free to play .. this is no longer that. Free to play doesnt just mean being able to login for free. It's one thing if ppl can buy mounts and stuf for br but the game went in a totally different direction which actually makes it not free to play. I can name a lot of games with monthly fees where they let u play for free to a certain level, or with access to only a map. If loging in for free is what makes a game free then almost every game on this planet is free as most of them let you try them out with limitations regarding latest expansion and stuff like that, holly molly guess what.. just like wartune now. So loging in doesnt make them free does it? as they are obviously monthly fee games. If u no longer have free access to the basic stuff of a game like talents and dungeons that game is no longer free to play. With this new patch there will be a total of 3 dungeons that u dont have access to, also the new talents u dont have access to , although they are BASIC things in any game and not smth to pay for in any free to play game. Main point..when it is no longer just about buying br but also about buying access to main content ( dungeons/talents) that game is no longer free to play for the obvious reason that the main content is not free which is the basis of any other free to play game. So in my humble opinion taking in consideration a wide area of games..this game stopped being f2p about 2-3 patches ago whenever they introduced the 2 new dungeons and new talents. Just my 2 cents.
                    You are playing a different game than me. The ONLY thing I pay for is VIP. I don't cash on balens. I not only play but have fun with friends most days.

                    The difference is that I ACCEPT that as a relative non-casher, I will NEVER be able to match the cashers. That is fine. I play for fun, not for bragging rights. If I lose a match, so what? Such is life.

                    I do NOT cry about it being "unfair" or that "cash wins". OF COURSE IT DOES! Why else would people spend REAL money on IMAGINARY pixels?

                    What is unfair are the FREE players wanting to be as good as PAYING players without WORKING for it.

                    As for your rant about people NEEDING to buy content, since when? You do NOT need to buy them. Just as you don't need to buy that special class in other online games (D&D Online is a classic example of this). Game is fine without it. In fact, I estimate it will take me a year to get Knighthood, so none of those things you mention is even within the realm of me reaching them for a good long while, possibly longer than the game will be around. Why would I care about something that I will never reach before the game is over? That is just being stupid and taking on faux outrage on yourself for no good reason. OK, granted that there is a large segment of our society that does nothing BUT take faux outrage over things that they are not even part of, will not affect them or had absolutely NOTHING to do with them, but let's keep that kind of jerkass stuff OFF this game and forum, IF YOU PLEASE!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by R233163926 View Post
                      classic just ignore it excuse

                      this is the behaviour that does more damage than good, when people just ignore every **** companies do

                      oh well, I suppose R2Games will start to care when people will vote with their wallet.
                      Yes, let them vote with their feet and wallet. That is how business goes. The business does things their customers do not like, the customers walk. Such is LIFE.

                      It is NOT your right to start TELLING LIES about the company in order to get them to do things YOUR WAY.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by R233163926 View Post
                        the problem here and its the big literaly giant elephant in the room: THE BALANCING!

                        any game where CC warriors can literally annihiliate people who cant afford to spend money on the game is a business model that I consider to be abysmal but then again thats probably the norm with these games. Its not about making it possible for freeloaders to get on the top of leaderboard but rather making the game fun for everyone to play, without basically handicapping free players in artifical ways to get them paying (and I consider building cooldowns and such to be nothing but tools of such)

                        I think that the balancing is exactly the problem here. That's not to say that Wartune was ever really balanced game in the first place as no "pay to win" game is ever really balanced. Those who are prepared to pay will always have advantage over free players and you just got to accept that and move on to other games.

                        However, in the past there was a chance for free player to compete with moderate-semi high cashers, if free players spend time and collected material. That however changed about year ago, when we started to get new patches in really fast pace. Not only these patches changed the gameplay in many ways, these patches added a lot of stuff that you only got initially by paying for them, like adv Mahra/Sepu, lot eudaemon materials (especially gear related material), LOT of new high stat mounts with titles, fused sylphs and finally knighthood. All of these "cash advantages", especially latter three, were so problematic for the game balance as free players and even light-semi cashers had no chance to fight against people with these items, which just lead to frustration for many.

                        True, even with that, things aren't really hopeless for free players either as they have gave us stuff that helps free players. Farms were good example as especially eu blood and mahra were really good for free players. Also adding Archaelogy in previous patch was like jackpot for all, but especially for free players. As with time, you can get lot of various material, especially adv mahra/sepu and eu related material, which were cash only in the past.

                        With these free players could have competed with cashers over time, but only if they would have had lower new patch release pace. But no, they released a lot of major patches in short time. Patches that added lot of new powerful stuff for those who were willing to pay. But unlikely all previous additions (like Hades/Apollo or souls seals for example), fused sylphs and now Knighthood are so much more powerful than all of the previous stuff that the cap between cashers and free players had become too wide. You barely had a chance to fight against fused sylph with your normal sylphs, but now you have no chance against someone with knighthood skills.

                        Yes, I'm sure free players will eventually get a way to get Knighthood easier and fused sylphs too, but the damage had been done already. Also, when you take into account mini-game changes, arena matching change and latest removal of unlimited events, which hurts free players especially, the cap between cashers and free players is getting wider. And with this patch release pace, free players doesn't even have theoretical chance to catch up to cashers.

                        TMLSS: What causes current balance problems in the game is too fast new patch release pace. Because majority of these patches had added initially powerful cash only items, it had caused the cap between free and cash player to get too wide. At the same time fast release pace means that free players doesn't have proper chance to catch up in month or two, before cashers get again something new in next patch that makes them even stronger.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ShadowVarjo View Post
                          I think that the balancing is exactly the problem here. That's not to say that Wartune was ever really balanced game in the first place as no "pay to win" game is ever really balanced. Those who are prepared to pay will always have advantage over free players and you just got to accept that and move on to other games.
                          You touch on it, and Ada touched on it earlier, but there's not supposed to be balance. If free players could stay relatively competitive with whales, there wouldn't be whales. There would be little to no incentive to spend the ridiculous amounts of money they do spend.

                          The free to moderate cashers are essentially there to provide ~3 things.

                          1) Community. Even whales would get bored talking to themselves in the off time.
                          2) Fodder for the whales. Free players are used to show the contrast in strength between the general population and the heavily spenders.
                          3) Potential spending base. Humans are prideful by nature, frustration in being beaten can lead people to spend.

                          It's not about making a balanced game that entertains its players and makes a little money. It's about making money, using whatever amoral tactics available.

                          Originally posted by Alsatia01 View Post
                          R2/Proficient City are businesses, not game companies.

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                          • #28
                            R2 sold too 7ROAD, So now they work together as 1 in Wartune, there is going to be a lot of change, but the heavy cashier's are getting slimmer, R2/7Road Wartune want you too believe that the heavy cashers are what carry this game, it isn't it the med,
                            and light casher that carry this game. they are getting slimmer as well. mainly they are going to tear down everything you built, so they can get you too buy more of thier inventory, so they can regain what they are loosing by screwing the players over
                            and over. But I think you will see a change as I have seen a new group on Facebook calling for the the boycott of spending in Wartune. there is a new group and is growing at a fast pace. Sometimes the greedy loose when the people they a screwing
                            finally see what is happening to them. Even the high spenders get tired of being had to many times in a row.
                            Last edited by R237584386; 04-10-2016, 03:50 PM.

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                            • #29
                              The only thing I can scream "unfair" on is when R2 decided to slam on the brakes with the events that people were used to along with other in-game features (cough cough Cloud Adventure cough cough). As I have said, I was prepared to get a few VIPs going (won't do the balen thing though since I don't spend much balens --- I got 6k bound now, wooohooo LOL), but after seeing where this game was headed with all these game breaking changes I've decided not to VIP them. Five accounts, that's 40 dollars a month they are losing out; and even though it might not be very much from this one guy, I am sure it adds up when others stop their VIP renewals along with other stuff.
                              Vicious! Approach with Caution!
                              Because some noob has called me such and had said it so
                              Mobile Strike Player: Base 1102 / Com 550 / 672* Power / VIP 1300
                              Dissidia Final Fantasy - Opera Omnia: Rank 60

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                              • #30
                                Darkwise has a point in here. The game is now broken in the sense that non-paying players can't even play the game like a normal player any more.
                                Many features are simply unavailable to free players in the near future. By "near" I meant "before everyone quits and before the game is shut off".
                                It's not a matter of "winning". The game is P2W. The winners have to pay.
                                It's a matter of playability.
                                If the game is F2P, it needs to be playable by free players. Right now it is growing in the direction of making it unplayable by non-paying players.
                                Most non-whales are going to have a gray icon at the bottom of their screen for months, if not forever. That perfectly qualifies Wartune as an unplayable game.

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