Titan temple

[miranda_psi]

Success in TT depends very heavily on dps, which makes it strongly favor archers. I have a 22 mil BR mage and still sometimes struggle in TT. When facing 4 opponents who are normally 35-40 mil BR range, all using friggas, and with a mix of battle oracles and willpower, the heal and shield spam alone is enough to make the fights take forever, even when winnable.

At 22m br, you should be able to beat tt trivially, regardless of class. If you can't, then you have serious issues with character design or in how you are playing. I'm only 19m br and it's generally all over before they even get a chance to sylph.

The biggest problem with TT is just that the gap between the biggest spenders and the rest of us keeps growing, which pulls TT out of reach of more players with each patch. This isn't a matter of noobs trying to take on TT with 4 million BR and epic failing. This is a matter of players who have been playing for 4+ years, have BRs around 14 mil, and can't even beat one floor. Sometimes there are tips/tricks people can use to have a better shot at clearing. For instance, I like to use moon titan 1st so that my eud can live long enough to debuff the opponents. Aside from small things like that though, this isn't really something where "git gud" is the answer. It doesn't matter how good you are if your toon just doesn't have the dps for it.

14m br is plenty to beat at least a few levels of titan temple - if you can't, you have problems with your strategy, or you have poorly built your toon. Also, if you've been playing for over 4yrs and are still only 14m br, you''ve missed, many, many opportunities. Yes, this is a matter of you have to get better - by designing your character properly and using the right strategies, you can massively increase your damage output. Beating tt is quite possible once you reach a certain point, but you have to figure out how to make it happen - it' not just going to be given to you on a golden platter (unless you are an archer, anyway) - it's something you have to work for (and should have to work for).

Yes, the br requirements are slowly going up (80% of the br gain the top people have now is sylph/eudo which makes no difference to how difficult they are to kill) and on the other hand, they have made it so much easier for new/low players to get br, so it seems to me that new players still have an equitable hurdle they have to overcome to be able to beat titan temple...

[Takashi007x]

Yes, the br requirements are slowly going up (80% of the br gain the top people have now is sylph/eudo which makes no difference to how difficult they are to kill) and on the other hand, they have made it so much easier for new/low players to get br, so it seems to me that new players still have an equitable hurdle they have to overcome to be able to beat titan temple...

For newer players they grow fast, but they will hit a grow cap. Assuming that your not a casher or spender, it will make a huge difference.
Since cashers can probably gain 2-3m br a month, while it may take a non-casher 3months to gain 1m once you hit your growth cap.

Ofc sylph and eudaemon br is all fluff to some extent, unless your able to level your smelt, mount, clothes every week, your growth is minimized by the paywall.
So as BR grows, and the top 100 are primarily full of cashers, some heavy and some casual, this gap will expand when you're hitting your growth wall.

So after 6 months they gain 18m+br on top of 20m to make 38m, your at 20m adding 2m to make 22. As the trend continues, you'll see the gap widen further.
Right now there is no cap, smelt costs are still high, clothes+wings, and mounts come weekly, and top 3 spender rewards monthly?

Even if you discount merged eudaemon impact, sylph HST will grow as well.

The challenge for new KH players is they need 1-2 titans to help get them going, grinding 3-4 months just to get one, they might as well quit because of the frustration.

[miranda_psi]

For newer players they grow fast, but they will hit a grow cap. Assuming that your not a casher or spender, it will make a huge difference.
Since cashers can probably gain 2-3m br a month, while it may take a non-casher 3months to gain 1m once you hit your growth cap.

You should be able to grow very rapidly to ~10m br then still fairly quickly to 15m br and by that point you should be able to make good progress in titan temple, if not passing it.

Ofc sylph and eudaemon br is all fluff to some extent, unless your able to level your smelt, mount, clothes every week, your growth is minimized by the paywall.
So as BR grows, and the top 100 are primarily full of cashers, some heavy and some casual, this gap will expand when you're hitting your growth wall.

Top 100 has been 100% cashers for at least the last couple of years. Yes, there is a growth wall (I'm currently at it), but it is high enough to make titan temple a trivial task. I face up to 50m brs in titan temple and it's not even a close battle - they are completely demolished. Even if they doubled their strength it'd still be no challenge.

So after 6 months they gain 18m+br on top of 20m to make 38m, your at 20m adding 2m to make 22. As the trend continues, you'll see the gap widen further.
Right now there is no cap, smelt costs are still high, clothes+wings, and mounts come weekly, and top 3 spender rewards monthly?

Yeah, the top players have gained that much in the last 6 months and yet they are barely any stronger than they were 6 months ago. BR gains only matter if they come from your character - br from anywhere else is completely useless and the top players have pretty much maxed those out already, so they basically have 0 room for any real growth. My growth may be slow, but it is mostly in real strength, so in reality I am getting closer to them.

Even if you discount merged eudaemon impact, sylph HST will grow as well.

Yes, they're holy swords are going up faster, but I have as tea ro see the level of holy sword make the difference in a fight. The people who have the that high are already so much stronger than you, they'll be 1 shotting you with any sylph.

The challenge for new KH players is they need 1-2 titans to help get them going, grinding 3-4 months just to get one, they might as well quit because of the frustration.

Well, they get 1 as soon as they become KH and a second can be quickly obtained from AA and he third doesn't take long either, Ideally need 1 more after that, then titan temple becomes much easier - but that was true when I went through it, and so it should be now. They have already removed all challenge from the MPDs; they're being trained to expect given everything on a golden platter, but just as in real life, there are some things you need to work for.

The one and only real flaw in titan temple is that it unfairly favours archers, If they can fix that issue...

[KS222]

Miranda_psi, I disagree with your assertions. To essentially say "if you're having trouble, you're doing it wrong" overlooks the many, many variables. Titan Temple can be harder or easier depending on the tops in a given server cluster, what eud they equip, your own character class, and how many titans you have (since the quantity of titans affects the bonuses you get).

As you noted, the event relies very heavy on dps, which makes it unfairly favor archers. There are also the bugs that have never been fixed. Cast a rune and have skill bar greyed out for 3 turns. Kill an opponent at the same time as its healed and face a "dead" opponent that is still attacking. Use the skill that is supposed to 1 shot one opponent and watch it not actually do what its supposed to if the target happens to have any sort of % HP shield up. There is also the bug where if you have 7 titans (refill AP every turn) and you are fighting 4 knights who AP steal while you are sylphed and take all your AP, you sometimes get stuck in sylph form, but unable to do anything but autohit (game sees you lost all AP and should untransform, but then your AP refills, cancelling the untransform...this can cause anywhere from a 1-2 turn "stun" to a permanent stuck until dead).

I saw you claimed sylph and eud growth has no effect on how hard a player is to kill in titan temple. That claim is false. Sylph HP adds to the player's HP, even when not transformed. Also, it seems that eud/willpower either are not nerfed like the toons are or are nerfed differently. They eud/willpower often do more damage than the AI controlled toons. Holy Sword skills also impact it and the higher the holy sword is, the stronger the holy sword skill is when opponent transforms. When you almost have someone down then they transform and instantly get a heal or shield from holy sword, that most definitely makes them harder to kill.

I also see you have very optimistic estimates for growth of new players. The numbers you quote may be possible if they are moderate spenders, but are not likely if the new players are not spenders and are not using cheats or exploits. I am in a guild with a lot of very proud non spenders who are active in the game and have played for 3+ years. They are in the 10-14 mil BR range. How fast a new player can grow often depends on what events are up and whether he/she has the resources to take advantage of it.

[miranda_psi]

Miranda_psi, I disagree with your assertions. To essentially say "if you're having trouble, you're doing it wrong" overlooks the many, many variables. Titan Temple can be harder or easier depending on the tops in a given server cluster, what eud they equip, your own character class, and how many titans you have (since the quantity of titans affects the bonuses you get).

Yes, there are variables and I have taken those into account. For archers I expect them to beat titan temple at much lower brs than mages and knights. The first 3 titans are quite easy to get and give you the best of the tt buffs and after 5 you have all the good buffs...

As you noted, the event relies very heavy on dps, which makes it unfairly favor archers. There are also the bugs that have never been fixed. Cast a rune and have skill bar greyed out for 3 turns. Kill an opponent at the same time as its healed and face a "dead" opponent that is still attacking. Use the skill that is supposed to 1 shot one opponent and watch it not actually do what its supposed to if the target happens to have any sort of % HP shield up. There is also the bug where if you have 7 titans (refill AP every turn) and you are fighting 4 knights who AP steal while you are sylphed and take all your AP, you sometimes get stuck in sylph form, but unable to do anything but autohit (game sees you lost all AP and should untransform, but then your AP refills, cancelling the untransform...this can cause anywhere from a 1-2 turn "stun" to a permanent stuck until dead).

DPS is more for RPGs and other continuous action type games. Wartune is mostly turn based, so DPS makes no sense in this context - the damage per skill is the main factor, and against 8 opponents, yes, knights have an insane damage output. Go down to a single target though and a knight will out damage though they'll still out damage a mage.

he 1 shot skills are skills that deal 100% of opponents hp and bypass all defenses. if you have a 30% hp shild on, you effectively have 130% hp, -100% from the skill and you are left with 30%, so that skill is working as intended, and everyone should expect that.It's the same with the WB 1 shots, the 1 shots from the olf guild battles, the 1 shots from the old gild beast, the 1 shot form the death zone bosses, etc. It's been the same way throughout the game so it really should be no surprise.

For the rune bug, the solution is simple - don't use a rune while a titan skill is going off; wait for the titan skill to go off, then use it. It's a ain, but it's very simple to work around.

Never encountered the auto refill bug, but you probably have the wrong strategy if they are all still alive and are able to drain you like that...

I saw you claimed sylph and eud growth has no effect on how hard a player is to kill in titan temple. That claim is false. Sylph HP adds to the player's HP, even when not transformed. Also, it seems that eud/willpower either are not nerfed like the toons are or are nerfed differently. They eud/willpower often do more damage than the AI controlled toons. Holy Sword skills also impact it and the higher the holy sword is, the stronger the holy sword skill is when opponent transforms. When you almost have someone down then they transform and instantly get a heal or shield from holy sword, that most definitely makes them harder to kill.

Yes, sylph hp is added onto the character hp, but it's negligible. The difference between a 500k and 700k sylph is 40k hp. When these players have 10m hp, 40k form a sylph is like a drop of water in the ocean - you're not even going to notice it. Yes, eudo/willpowers aren't nerfed as much as the players, but it's irrelevant - even at full strength they pose no danger to anyone unless you are very weak. E.g. I am 19m br and I can easily kill the willpower of a 50m br player - it's not even a contest; it's a massacre of the willpower.

I have done tt since it came out, and I have NEVER seen a eudo/willpower do more damage than the players (baring illusion, blocks, etc.). Eudos/willpwer can have high base stats, but they basically have no res reduction, so your res will stop the vast majority of the damage they are capable of, resulting in them doing very little damage. The players now, they have damn good res reduction, even with being nerfed, so they can end up doing quite a lot of damage.

Can't say I've seen them use HS in titan temple, but admittedly they almost never live long enough to sylph anyway...

I also see you have very optimistic estimates for growth of new players. The numbers you quote may be possible if they are moderate spenders, but are not likely if the new players are not spenders and are not using cheats or exploits. I am in a guild with a lot of very proud non spenders who are active in the game and have played for 3+ years. They are in the 10-14 mil BR range. How fast a new player can grow often depends on what events are up and whether he/she has the sources to take advantage of it.

10-14m br is very low for playing over 3 years, even without cashing. For 3 years or so, you should be looking at the 18-21m br range if you actually make use of the opportunities the game gives you, which is roughly where the game caps your growth currently without spending. There is still some room for growth form there, but each little step up takes weeks after that. For the most part, events repeat on a monthly basis and are very easy to predict - there is basically no excuse for not being ready for them. And the numbers I quote are very reasonable for non-cashers - saw someone on my server grow from 10m br to now almost 15m in 4-5 months without cashing - you can grow very quickly to certain points, you just have to take advantage of what the game offers you. If you ignore those, slack off and don't prepare for events, then yes, your growth will be glacial, but that is on you and not the game.

[Freddypainter]

Roll on 7.5 with new willpower that heals more than a frigga, gl.

[Xharry005x]

yeah face 4 merged edus with the players 40 to 50 mill br

1 edu will heal and shield while others debuff and damage way to make things harder

[Meikura001]

10-14m br is very low for playing over 3 years, even without cashing. For 3 years or so, you should be looking at the 18-21m br range if you actually make use of the opportunities the game gives you, which is roughly where the game caps your growth currently without spending.

I am sorry, but what?

I am at 4.5m BR from the time 632 was opened. There wasn't any opportunity after they placed the limits on the ingame currency spending like the adv guild shop. Aside from taking in small amounts of rewards from dungeons, the random possible rewards from archaeology (the one you want comes along about 3-4 days, if you're lucky), minuscule amounts from sylph exploration where you don't have any adv materials, the small (yet stupid) amount of rewards from sky trail, the small amounts during a sylph atoll defense, Day-O dimensions, and much more, there is not very much going on for this game when it comes to growth unless you spend. Even wings are not included in the clothing set, or even a mount, when it comes to the lucky exchange. Folks have to save up clothing shards/beast souls so they can purchase when they do come up.

Unless you bot, you're not going to sit there and tell me that BR amount is possible for the amount of time without spending. It's pure Day-O to me. Sorry, but that's how it is.

Xharry005x Yep, there's going to be a lot of ticked off people now the sea witch is available. Granted I got both of those euds for each guy, but had developed my BO and WR in getting them to 9 and 8 respectfully instead. So it will be a while for me, LOL.

[miranda_psi]

Roll on 7.5 with new willpower that heals more than a frigga, gl.

They have more heals, but they are all far less potent than the frigga heals, but I very much doubt they'll even slow me down. Worst case they'll force me to sylph and then get blown away.

yeah face 4 merged edus with the players 40 to 50 mill br

1 edu will heal and shield while others debuff and damage way to make things harder

I face that every time I do titan temple. They drop dead before they more than scratch me. I used to care when I was 12m br (only cared about oracles, knights and friggas), the as I grew stronger, only cared about knights and now I literally don't care what's in it - they all drop dead one way or another.

I am sorry, but what?

I am at 4.5m BR from the time 632 was opened. There wasn't any opportunity after they placed the limits on the ingame currency spending like the adv guild shop. Aside from taking in small amounts of rewards from dungeons, the random possible rewards from archaeology (the one you want comes along about 3-4 days, if you're lucky), minuscule amounts from sylph exploration where you don't have any adv materials, the small (yet stupid) amount of rewards from sky trail, the small amounts during a sylph atoll defense, Day-O dimensions, and much more, there is not very much going on for this game when it comes to growth unless you spend. Even wings are not included in the clothing set, or even a mount, when it comes to the lucky exchange. Folks have to save up clothing shards/beast souls so they can purchase when they do come up.

Unless you bot, you're not going to sit there and tell me that BR amount is possible for the amount of time without spending. It's pure Day-O to me. Sorry, but that's how it is.

If you're only 4.5m br after 3yrs, you've made it into my record books as the worst player of all time. It might sound harsh, but I haven't even heard of anyone being that low after so long. Eclipsing 4.5m br is quite trivial these days.

Yes, the limits are stupid, but they are relatively new. If you've bee playing 3+ years, you should have passed 4.5m br long before those limits came in, though in reality you really don't need to buy anything from it - it's all quite easy to get from elsewhere. If you do archaeology each day and in he right places you can get all he legendary stones you could ever use. mahra and sepu are basically free flowing everywhere, adv mahra and sepu are quite easy to come by now too, eudo blood/gear refinement and such is all easy to get, mount whips are over flowing, adv henna is easy to get, gems, res crystals, etc are all easy to get. Until you start maxing out all of thee things, there are heaps of ways to quickly and easily increase your br - should be able to get to around 14/15m br before things really start to slow down. If you cash, on the other hand, your growth keeps on going until you get into the high 40ms probably... as long as you spend enough

[Meikura001]

Sorry, mate, but I am not a 24/7 player. I only get to play like 1-2 hours with the way things are going when it comes to performance issues and the ineptness of rewards. If something entices me and tickles my fancy, I will gladly do it every day. However, I get bored very quick when something stupid is presented that I hardly touch it afterwards. I am not even KH yet, else that probably would fluff a bit more.

Anyways, TT reminds me of another game I used to play for R2 (Shadowbound) where I am matched with like opponents (presumably my BR before reset) in 15 stages. On some days, I can do all 15 stages with just a sliver of life left; and on some days, I am up to 14 because I was facing opponents that were the next level tier higher but have better mercs and pet, while I am maxed with my bracket's mercs and no pet (all managing to have the same BR or close around to mine). I used to really hate them Day-O's because the higher mercs had better abilities than my camped out level bracket ones.

I get what you're saying when it comes to strategy. However, this is 7Road/ProCity we're talking about where they take the top spendiest (there are no top non-spenders within the 100) for the server cluster and make them the shadows. When I used to do ToK when it first came about, the guys I fought on had sylphs while the fresh 38's don't even own one. 1 or 2 levels was the best we can do, but sylphs dominated the next one. Well, went and got the sylphs, then later found out I was battling the Euds and no one on my team were level 70 yet. We got the Euds and things managed to go forth okay as we're one level from clearing the first difficulty; then it got shot up to Day-O where no one, unless they have an uber BR person in their team, could beat the first level of the easiest difficulty.

Yeah, I really hated that "one size fits all" methodology as it is Day-O poor design at its worst.

[Freddypainter]

They have more heals, but they are all far less potent than the frigga heals, but I very much doubt they'll even slow me down.

Frigga has 1 heal every 1m, sea witch has 15s+30s heals. That will be cast multiple times, in multiple turns, not like the predictable Frigga heal, which u can negate your skills around. So bit me . Please don't make anymore excuses for r2's poorly thought out event..

[Xharry005x]

Frigga has 1 heal every 1m, sea witch has 15s+30s heals. That will be cast multiple times, in multiple turns, not like the predictable Frigga heal, which u can negate your skills around. So bit me . Please don't make anymore excuses for r2's poorly thought out event..

well said freddy the new sea witch all the top cashers will get just that it heals and shields a lot more times than Frigga does so I expect to see all the top players aving this sea witch and back to using 4x friggas also

[Buuurman]

10-14m br is very low for playing over 3 years, even without cashing. For 3 years or so, you should be looking at the 18-21m br range if you actually make use of the opportunities the game gives you, which is roughly where the game caps your growth currently without spending. There is still some room for growth form there, but each little step up takes weeks after that. For the most part, events repeat on a monthly basis and are very easy to predict - there is basically no excuse for not being ready for them. And the numbers I quote are very reasonable for non-cashers - saw someone on my server grow from 10m br to now almost 15m in 4-5 months without cashing - you can grow very quickly to certain points, you just have to take advantage of what the game offers you. If you ignore those, slack off and don't prepare for events, then yes, your growth will be glacial, but that is on you and not the game.

You are spending so much time here telling others that TT is perfectly doable and that one requires skills in order to do that. But what you stated above is rubbish. Now you are saying that it is the player and you have some example why one would be capable to pull it off.

And you even tell someone that he is a bad player, is it up to you to say if a player is good or not all of the sudden? Players can hit KH today with a BR of 4.8 mill. Well, i wish those players all the luck in the world because the next couple of months they are not able to beat 1 stage of TT. But oke, it is your right to defend the developers and TT but know that it is our right to discuss about it. There is no point in blaming the players, we all are busting our butts off in TT and you can beat several stages, good for you. Others cannot, have some heart for that too instead of playing the same old song that it is doable and that others can beat it too.

We are not you nor are we those other people you are talking about. Hell, we might not even spent the same amount of time in this game but when only playing 3hrs a day isn't enough, what is?

[Meikura001]

Buuurman I think nothing of it as I find it really comical for him to say such (assuming it's a him). I even take the time to find out where things are capped at (equipment, Dragon Soul, astrals, etc.) that cannot be fed into until they level up (if regular) or move onto the next tier (Class Advance, Knighthood) so they can continue. Then gives a little "He-Man/She-Ra" (it's what we call kids when they play off something that is way beyond their own capabilities or the capabilities of play; actually, I would say "He-Man Day-O"; South Harmond Institute of Technology) story on how they can beat TT against much bigger BRs on a cluster that is most likely populated by the top spenders of such (top 100).

But, that's okay. I know of a way we can settle this once and for all. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Others would say "pictures or it didn't happen". And then there is me in saying "a video is much better for the world to see". So, He-Man/She-Ra, either a video showing you can do all that Day-O you have said and proving many of us wrong, or you're just full of it. End of story.

"There are no bad players when playing the game; only those who ridicule others of their ability are the bad players"

[fxsignal007]

holy cow...I faced a nightmare TT last night...First time facing this..

4 Frigga 2 Oracle with LVl 8 Heal, 1 Sacred Knight and 1 Sanctuary Hunter....

SH hits you with Incendiary shot that immediately reduced ur damage 30%
SK Cuts ur rage every 30 secs to zero so there was no way to build up rage to do any freaking damage...Also that piece of this sh.t casting Apollo Sheild on top of FRIGGA SHEILD...

Once all 4 frigga was awaken HOLY *** they constantly steal rage and heal...


Its pathetic that Instant Kill hitting on EUDA and comes back alive next battle...Luckily one insta shot was hit on a Player and I barely survived in 5th try...Big Thanks to that 300% damage TIME CLOCK....


TITAN TEMPLE will be even more broken with sea willpower...good luck boys...