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My little opinions, elaborations and ideas about the current BattleGrounds

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  • My little opinions, elaborations and ideas about the current BattleGrounds

    Point 1:
    I am a player who played in s66. I am hoping the quality of the battleground in wartune can be improved.

    Just 2 days ago one of the low level player sent me a pm and his words hurt my feeling. He said I must be feeling "very big" by owning players lower than myself. But he do not understand, I am just able to own him because I am pressing levels in a level 30 Battleground. I would be totally asame like him when it comes to level 40 Battleground - there would be no one I am able to defeat at level 40 Battleground at all.

    It is not that I prefer to pick on lower level players, I do that without much choices on my hand. If you do not try to get some honour before lvl 40, it will be even harder for you to obtain honour once you level up to 40. While my guild are mostly consist of 50s and 60s, I do not have the guts to ask for a participants as a low level player like myself to enter the Guild Battle, that would be a very selfish request. Either own others now or get owned later, it is just as simple as that.

    As the rewards for the honour (for medals), overides the importances of the winning or losing of the game, many do not care a bit about the match winning or losing. They just aim to be a MVP or trying to get as much honour as they could. This make matches lose its meaning, but becomes a one man show event which the stronger keep owning the weaker.

    When I am playing Battleground, I could just go for maximum honour gain but I do not do that. I picked to take off all the Guardians, Gryphons and Knights in the opponent base so my team would have a higher point in winning the game. Fighting with the Knights especially took me a lot of time and need me to waste 200 points after defeating it, which I could have trade those time and those points by keep on owning lower level players and gain more honour and perhaps I could obtain the MVP title by myself.

    I select the winning of the team over the gain of the total honour I could gain in the game, because I care about those low levels in my team who can mostly only obtain their honour through gathering crystals, that's why I felt a bit hurt when that player sent me a pm and said I must be feeling very big or so on, while what I had been doing so far I did care about the low level players in the game.



    But that is not the point here, the point is effort should be done to make the battleground more balance a bit. When you are introducing a level 30 player with 5k BR in a match together with a 15k BR above, that means there is something wrong with the structure of your game. You could argue by saying the lower level players could play for the winning of the team, but the fact is -- no one is playing for the winning or losing of the match. They just keep hunting honour that is.

    So there is eventually nothing for the lower level or lower BR players to play in your match at all. Get owned in level 30 Battleground, and get owned again in level 40 Battleground. When players feel meaningless in playing your matches, they blame for starting into the server late, and quit the game. You prevent that to happen by keep on launching new servers. Eventually by doing this, you are just telling people that your game is only "playable" if only you join the server early when it is launched, if not, it would be great disadvantages to join late.

    So what I am predicting here is, the amount of registered player in all of your servers, only reach the high peak at the first few days of server launching. Afterwards the players join the server are (most probably) will be quitter in the end. So the amount of "real" and "solid" players in your server, can only be measured in the first few days of the server launched.

    The reason is pretty simple. For those whom the mindset to spend balens in your game, why do I need to spend in a late joined server? I would rather spend in a new server which I join at the date it is launched. That would make me spend lesser and all the balens I spent, would worth more. I could play for fun and just spend when a new server launched. Is that correct?

    So eventually the players that spent in your game are hugely separated in all of your different servers. And you need more servers to support just a few real balen spending players -- which contribute to another reason -- your items sold in game must be high enough in order to support your expenses.

    It does not need to be this way. 100 servers are just way too many, not to mention so many servers in such a short time, how long just Wartune is being introduced to the world? We have a local saying in my place:"Anything that is over the limit, will collapse in the end." For an amount of over 100 servers, even maintenance alone, will be a huge headache for you.



    Point 2:
    So my idea here is, if we are going to make this battleground more fun to play, firstly, we must get rid of the idea that the purpose that players only play Battleground, is only to gain honour. As long as everyone is playing only for themselves, teamwork will never exist in Battleground and when there is no teamwork, there is no fun. And left only suffering is the low level players who only can put their hope into the high level players in their team and hope them win the match for them, and when the high level players in their team do not care about that, then these groups of low level players are just -- a group of plain sad players, who participate Battleground only to suffer.

    For the "pattern" of level 30 Battleground, I can tell you that the only factor that could distribute to the winning of the match is simple to understand -- Enough high level mages who can do good aoe damage+heal themselves in the game. Since level 30 Battleground, is another view of an "immature battleground", which low level players who just enter your server and reach level 30 in 2days time, are competing with those who press their levels for a month or so. There is no way they could win, and thus Mages play the only factor to win in the game, by keep on killing low level players in a fast speed with their aoe skills and slow down the gaining of the carts returned.

    For level 40 above Battleground is more likely a mature battleground, but unfortunately it is even worse. This is a battle ground which Dryad blessing lost its function because you do not limit the levels in the match. For level 30 Battleground, the limitation on levels is between 30-39. For level 40 Battleground, it is just level 40 above. That means a level 40 player can meet a level 60 or 70 players in the game, and this is just plain sad. I have met a lot of players that choose to play Wartune in a manner which they do not care about leveling. They just stayed at 39 forever and keep pumping their stats and owned the newbies whenever they feel they want to play the game. When you are having this kind of players in your game, that would be not healthy for you because imbalance creates complains, and complains creates disastifactions and disagreement of the game you are offering to them.


    What I am proposing here is, setting a waiting space which all players get in and do not distribute them to their team yet. Depends on their BR, levels, and classes type, modification should be made so both team can be balanced up. For example, we should not have too many Mages on a side in BG, because aoe skills is what that matters in Battleground -- those who killed fast slow the gain of carts and win the match. When teams are balance in all areas, there is only real competition exist.

    One of another way of making Battleground more balanced, is by copying your own Guild battle style into the Battlegrounds. Players who won the match gets to assigned to a higher difficulty of Battlegrounds, and higher Battlegrounds have more juicy rewards since what consisted there would be real players that plays the game instead of afkers or alternates. And final Battlegrounds have to be played from the first, or the rank dropped or so on.

    Getting out of the Battleground is a joke. We should not let that happen. For players who gets in and gets out eventually as they like spoiled the game. One person leaving means wasting another 14 players time if that contributes to the losing of the match. Either play it or leave it, as long as your matching system work more balance, you would not need to offer the freedom for players to leave the game. Players leave your match simply because you do not have any matching systems that works in Battleground game, that's all it means.

    By setting an awaiting space before the match start, we can assign players into rooms of matches for a more balance team gameplay. How many rooms for matches are necessary? That can be decided by obtaining the numbers of players in the awaiting room.

    However, balancing the game will mean nothing, if you do not get rid of the idea that players only play for themselves in Battleground -- honour hunting for the medals. In order to create an environment which will encourage the players to play for their team to win but not for themselves, the type of rewards have to be rethought because in this case, it is the rewards that drives the players into their directions.


    Point 3:
    For another matter, honour gain is way too high in Guild Battles. When Guild Battle is being introduced, I never expected that it would offer honour for the players. I expected that it would offer something for the building for the Guild instead. A stronger guild with some "functions", or "rewards" will offer the players of the same Guild with more benefits in the battle, for example? That is what I thought it would be. For what purposes you offer honour as a reward type in this matches, honestly I have no idea why would you want to do that.

    The honour set by the different rank is just too.. I would say not very nicely designed. When you need to introduce a huge amount as part of the calculation in reaching a new stat, that simply means the calculation done is not enough. For example, why would you want to introduce a heavenly-like figure for such as 10k, 20k, 100k honour points for the next new level, which the low level honour just a few thousands? Because the ways to obtain honour in your game is simple. Just make it interesting or harder to gain the honour, better than just introduce a huge amount in order to reach the levels. That makes the progress of earning honour too dull, or impossible to reach for those who can't play the game everyday. And when stress, many would pick to quit the game.


    Point 4:
    When I am playing your game, I am trying to think how to get my character better and faster. No offence, in the process of playing the game, I have noticed your game has eventually a lot of failed elements included in your game. Why would I say that, the reason is simple. A lot of items in your game does not mean a meaning at all.

    There are eventually 2 main sets of gears you are introducing to the game. 1) Arena set, 2) Dungeon set that offer Rage, 3) Random purple set with no other benefits.

    And the only set players are using in your game, is Arena set.

    Imo, Dungeon set that offers more rage does have its purpose, but it purpose can't be properly displayed.

    As differences of the skills in the 3 different classes you had introduced, it is not hard to notice that, there is always a pick of skills that works more beneficial towards as an entire team (some proly only for the purpose of dungeon though), while one skill works as a heavy damage dealer. But these "teamwork skills", requires rather a lot of rages. So these Dungeons sets are initially designed with the purpose of activating these skills, but in the end, the truth is no one is going for the dungeon sets. The only set that exist in Wartune, is only arena set. From the way how you are increasing the gaining of insignias for the players in your matches and events due to players complains, this is the same as telling that you had given up the design of the game and admit it as a failure. You offered too many insignias to the players until it destroyed a very good design of you game, that is really a waste imo, that is really a waste.

    Many of your awesome designs do not even have the chance to show its bright under the sun because many players quit before they reach the high levels to discover that. But you can't blame them for that. You are offering way too many works to be done (daily), too much suffering to be endured (in BG daily), that no one would play a game only for the meaning to suffer, they play to enjoy.

    What I am thinking is perhaps you do not realise, but this is a very brilliant design of the game. It is a very good design, but poorly pick of choices in handling unexpected events. It does not need to be this way. You are dealing it way too impatient with the thoughts of wanting to expand the games servers in godspeed without considering much, and it ends up this way. The modifications you are making now are getting more and more out of control from what the original design has been planned to be earlier.


    I am quite interested in Wartune as the long I played the game, the more I feel this game has a lot of potential that it can be much more fun and playable for the game in the new century. The original designs of the game structure is brilliant, but the implementations moved away from its path, correct me if I am wrong, but this is the way how I see the game have been. I am interested in offering to improving the game, but that makes me very unfair as I am offering my ideas while gain nothing in return. If I were to be involved in the game modifications and improvements, I wish to be officially participated not as a virtual gamer who talks in the forum, but a part in a real development team, that is one of the reason why I took the time to make a long post. If you are interested in my ideas, I hope I could be offered a communication between us, if you feel my opinions are worth it of course, if not then just forget about it.

  • #2
    There are some good points you pointed out from your observations during the period that you've played the game.

    Though the system of Battle Ground matching is a bit flawed right now, it is going to be changed later when we get to play the later patches from the original developers. And those belong to 7Roads. R2Games does not hold any authority to change the game's mechanic.

    Although you may think that the PvP set is more favorable in this game. I would suggest you to actually use the PvE set, compete against players around your range of BR and see the advantages it can give you. Don't simply simulate situations from their bonuses alone.
    The Last Remnant OSTs Go!!!

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    • #3
      I have already long tried the PvE set before against the PvP set, it does not work out good. It works out.. terribly lol.

      There are 3 benefits in PvP sets.
      1. an ignorance of defence
      2. an initial of 30 rage
      3. extra endurance

      So that only means in another way:
      1. equals to the meaning of = increase of damage dealt (for example, you are actually having an increase in pattk or mattk, even it does not show it and it does not revealed in BR)
      2. equals to the meaning of = save up a few rounds (in order to gather the rage)
      3. equals to the meaning of = save up a few rounds again (more hp could last longer for you to cast more skills for extra rounds)

      So, the logic derives from the PvP set against PvE set, it eventually neutralize PvE into a set of meaningless item. The only benefit that shine in PvE set is the extra 10 rage gained per action. Imo, the person who develop this set comes with a mistaken idea that perhaps he thought by gaining let's say 10 rage extra per one action, means by "saving one round" of action alone.

      But that is not true. What you miss out here is, eventually you need one action to gain the rage, and you need another action to "spend" the rage. Right? One round to gather, one round to spend. It is not that you have gained the extra rage and you can immediately put it into use. So this lower the meaning of the PvE set even more.

      The next point is, depends again, different actions (skills activated) has different cool down time. Good skills that applies high rages usually too, take longer cool down time. Thus even when you gain an extra step earlier in casting a higher level skill, your opponent (who wearing a PvP set with a higher damage than you), may be able to cast 2 basic skills on you, which do not/require only a min amount of rage. This is a fact that lower the meaning of PvE set into nothing again.

      So what's the point here? It is simple. PvE set's advantages only means to get/save a few step faster/earlier to cast a high rage consumption skill. But when a PvP set can offer more hp, more damage, and an initial of 30 rage, that really render the benefit of PvE set user into nothing.



      The last point is, imo, a player true strength is not measured alone with its BR. It is measured by his levels first, then only comes to see whether what BR he is at the moment.

      The reason is simple. Let's say there are two same BR player in the server. One is level 35 with 16k BR. One is level 40 with 16k BR too. Will these 2 players able to mean each other in the game? No. They could hardly to. So you see the meaning here? We look at the level first, then only comes by the BR.

      1. In arena, when you are a level 40 player, you will mostly get to team with a level 40 player. So if you only have 16k BR on your level 40 and others have 20k, you get owned, that's all.

      2. Then we look in Battleground, does BR matters anything to you? No, Battleground is a chaos place which all players with different levels, different BR get mixed together in a match. The rage obtained in the previous match can be brought into the next match. PvE set in Battleground display the minimum effect here. But anyway, the real problem (mentioned post above0, the difference in levels and BR can be so huge that any sets will not mean anything at all in the match. It is because the opponent matched against each other, are already imbalance. This is not an issue of the set.

      3. In Guild battles, I am not sure how many players maximum can be entered into a match, is it 9v9 or 16v16? AoE skills rule in Guild Battles, this is a match for mages, lol, come on, everyone knows that. Whether you can defend the tower or not depends on how many powerful yet active mage you have in your guild, in that particular match, that is.



      So the conclusion imo is, when a player true strength can be only measure by his levels then only followed by his BR, then it eventually means for example, let's say 2 players with a same level, who is wearing a PvP set, and another one wearing PvE set, their BR together at the same level, could hardly be the same.

      Or changed into another saying is, if let's say you are level 40 and by wearing a PvP set you could have 1k BR higher (at least, including the ignorance of defence that does not included in BR measurement), and by wearing a PvE set, you would have 1k BR lower, which set would you prefer?

      Or it would be like this, if by wearing a PvE set you can only able to match with a player similiar BR with you, but the fact is, you can already won him when you are wearing a PvP set which is, eventually a higher BR than him, so why would you bother to consider the PvE set at all. That's the mindset of all the majority players in the game atm.



      PvE set is a design certainly made for skills that apply high rage, I have totally no doubt about that. I am not awared that r2games are not in charge of the coding of the game, it is a pity really, I heard that 7road are located in China, guess it would not be possible for me to join the team then.

      Imo, if you want to improve your game, firstly, you have to improve your matches, for example the Guild battles, Battlegrounds, or so on.

      People pay a deal lot just to get their game tested for suggestions and feedbacks before it is launched. Just by this above underlined statement alone and the few points here, it is certain I would have been paid (in normal occasion of course, if I am officially been hired as a game tester that is) It is already a critical point I pointed out, but this is the most I can offer, anything more would be very unfair for myself.

      So good luck, hopefully we could see changes in the coming wartune patches soon.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have always achieved victory against players with higher level, and higher BR than my own with PvE set, while they use PvP sets. Unless they pay $500 more than I do, I have no problem winning against them.

        The PvE set is designed for skills that cost a bit higher rage, but lower cool down. The set up for those skills on each class is relatively similar.

        For Knights: Slasher, Ultimate Slasher, Shadow Thrasher, Agoran Shield and Reverse Damage.

        For Archers: Arrow Strike, Multi-Shot, Lunatic Fire, Deep Freeze, and Armor Piercer.

        For Mages: Lightning Bolt, Rain of Fire, Meteoric Destroyer, Restoration, and Suntoria.

        With the skill sets above, the PvE set will give you major advantages against others, given that the gear level difference isn't too far.
        The Last Remnant OSTs Go!!!

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        • #5
          Point must be noted for PVE set followers

          The PVE set is very weak unless u use legendary and unlock all the sockets and full enchant

          also right skills must be used for it to be fully effective

          also PVE set works terribly in BG since u have dyrad and pots there

          but on regular PVP bases it works like a charm
          Learn the search function and use the search function help r2 by reducing the threads which might have already been posted

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DeathRiver View Post
            I have always achieved victory against players with higher level, and higher BR than my own with PvE set, while they use PvP sets. Unless they pay $500 more than I do, I have no problem winning against them.

            The PvE set is designed for skills that cost a bit higher rage, but lower cool down. The set up for those skills on each class is relatively similar.

            For Knights: Slasher, Ultimate Slasher, Shadow Thrasher, Agoran Shield and Reverse Damage.

            For Archers: Arrow Strike, Multi-Shot, Lunatic Fire, Deep Freeze, and Armor Piercer.

            For Mages: Lightning Bolt, Rain of Fire, Meteoric Destroyer, Restoration, and Suntoria.

            With the skill sets above, the PvE set will give you major advantages against others, given that the gear level difference isn't too far.
            Yea I have to agree. I don't use the pve set because its a literal pain in the backside to get. Way too much time to get the lvl 50 or lvl 60. But I can't help but think a knight with epic 50 or epic 60 pve gear and the right skills would literally dominate just about anything. Yea they wouldn't have the initial starting rage but dang that rage gain per hit would be sweet. A 11k or higher patk with a lvl 4 ST using about every other turn or so...that would hurt.

            A build that I wondered how good would be is a knight spec'ed for tanking, fully socketed and fully enchanted lvl 50 epic gear and with a high lvl hp, block, mdef and pdef gem in each piece. Wouldn't need patk really. Lvl 3 RD with our passive that reduces damage and a high block stat? Pwnage all day long.
            Yitien:

            Class: Assassin lvl 78
            BR: 67K
            Server: Qianfo Hall

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            • #7
              Hyorinmaru6: strange counts... imho with 60 pve set you outclass 55pvp set. Well, you can not ignore opponent's defence, but your attack is so raised that you do not need that. The rage of your pve set is so accumulating that you can smash the opponent with powerful attacks much more efficiently.
              We have stepped accross a mage in group arena. We were three in pvp sets she was only one with pve set. Its true we were 65 levels and she 71. But she was healing herself so quickly combining healings with aoe attacks, that we failed even game gave us +200% all

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Hyorinmaru6 View Post
                Point must be noted for PVE set followers

                The PVE set is very weak unless u use legendary and unlock all the sockets and full enchant

                also right skills must be used for it to be fully effective

                also PVE set works terribly in BG since u have dyrad and pots there

                but on regular PVP bases it works like a charm
                Exactly right, i think the only PvE set worth getting is lvl 60 legendary(not normal), before that just own with the PvP sets

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LordRaider View Post
                  Hyorinmaru6: strange counts... imho with 60 pve set you outclass 55pvp set. Well, you can not ignore opponent's defence, but your attack is so raised that you do not need that. The rage of your pve set is so accumulating that you can smash the opponent with powerful attacks much more efficiently.
                  We have stepped accross a mage in group arena. We were three in pvp sets she was only one with pve set. Its true we were 65 levels and she 71. But she was healing herself so quickly combining healings with aoe attacks, that we failed even game gave us +200% all
                  U lost coz she had one more astral and was 6 levels ahead of u, actually what most people dont understand is that an increase in PATK is not as deadly as an ignore in PDEF, a +500 PATK does not equal a -1000 PDEF, its much more than that as in the latter the effects from the skills shows itself alot better, i can bet anyone around my BR with level 60 PvE(not legendary) wont beat me, just coz he/she wont hit hard, while i will be hitting really hard.
                  So in short, PATK increase aint as deadly as -PDEF decrease(according to maths) unless the PATK increase is way higher which can only be achieved by getting legendaries and full sockets.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Barbarossa View Post
                    Yea I have to agree. I don't use the pve set because its a literal pain in the backside to get. Way too much time to get the lvl 50 or lvl 60. But I can't help but think a knight with epic 50 or epic 60 pve gear and the right skills would literally dominate just about anything. Yea they wouldn't have the initial starting rage but dang that rage gain per hit would be sweet. A 11k or higher patk with a lvl 4 ST using about every other turn or so...that would hurt.

                    A build that I wondered how good would be is a knight spec'ed for tanking, fully socketed and fully enchanted lvl 50 epic gear and with a high lvl hp, block, mdef and pdef gem in each piece. Wouldn't need patk really. Lvl 3 RD with our passive that reduces damage and a high block stat? Pwnage all day long.
                    Yeah pwnage in theory... that ST will hit me for 2k which aint anything, on the other hand if the same ST comes from a guy wearing lvl 55 PvP, itll hit me for 3.5-4k. PvP> PvE(normal) nuff said

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                    • #11
                      pvp is better because :
                      1. easier to get
                      2. add 30 initial rage and endurance
                      3. - def for enemy when against other player/s

                      but still, i want to have pve60, and if possible upgrade it to leg60.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That is right, if you see through the opinions of comparisons between the PvE and the PvP set, it will not be difficult for you to find out a similiarity: Usually the one who is using PvE set, need to be a few levels higher if the PvE users, are going to win against the PvP users.

                        However that is already a point made in my previous post: If you want to compare in such a way, a higher level using different set can win another set, is there really a point to do so? No, it does not. It does not has much meaning at all.

                        It does not have to be PvE set against PvE set. I could tell you two players wearing the same PvP set, the higher level will have a higher chance to win against the lower level. To compare the set in such a way is not appropriate. Thus if you mean by a higher PvE set user can defeat a lower PvP set user, that simply just mean one thing, he must be very strong enough that even with a weaker set, he can still own you, that's all it means.

                        If we were to compare something, we have to do it among the same level, and then we see what the effect can bring us. So far all I could see, given approximately equal strength (mentioned about BR) and with the same level, I have never seen a PvE set beats a PvP set before.

                        An initial 30 rage is no joke. You will not be able to see the difference if you are just reading the game manual and thinking 1on1 basic without playing the game before. But once you actually get into the game and actually play the matches, you will realise the PvE set totally has no chance against PvP set.

                        This, especially given in matches such as Guild Battles or Group Arena, where 3 or more than 3 mages cast AoE spells together, while you are thinking you are able to "slowly gain your first rage" with the 1st basic skill, the outcome is more than obvious isn't it? There is no chance of winning at all.

                        No game developers will introduce an element in the game and ending up no one is using it. If that happens, then for me I would conclude it as a miscalculation or a mistake done that's all. The idea of seperating 2 sets into PvE and PvP set for user to select is a brilliant design, but still it is a truth now when there it appears there is no one using it at all.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          there is only one reason I want a pve set. for the higher level dungeon. I regret not getting the level 50 pve set. This does not mean I will give away my pvp set. I am working on my 60 pve set. I will fully gem it out and switch to do higher level dungeons, then switch back to my pvp set when I am done, unless proven otherwise that this 60 level set does greater damage than my pvp set. Otherwise, I will work towards my level 60 set and KEEP my pvp set too. My g.m. keeps both too. she is working on level 50 legendary rings to keep with both and working towards level 50 pve set then she will work on level 60 set after and right now she still has her level 40 pve set until she gets the 50 set. I see no reason not to have both, as while making your jewellry and rings legendary you get many level 4 crystaloids to make your level 50 set, which you will need to get your pieces for your level 60 set. I will have to do it the hard way, but I will synth my level 4 crystals to level 5 and keep going for level 60 set. As for arena, until I get such set and it is proven I can do better with my pve set, I will continue to use my pvp set, as it is intended for pvp. My pve set will be for pve and pvp set for pvp.
                          Death comes when you hear the Banshee.....

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                          • #14
                            I think the theory is misleading, let me explain:

                            1) "an increase in PATK is not as deadly as an ignore in PDEF, a +500 PATK does not equal a -1000 PDEF" - if you will take higher ATK from items itselves, bonuses from the random stats and add +500 ATK from the set bonus, you are compensating the lost 1000 DEF points a lot.
                            2) "the effects from the skills shows itself alot better," - in pvp set (if i wont get castinator or talent) I can cast meteor, lightning, rain. In pve set I can cast lightning, rain, thunderer

                            In my opinion if your opponent is a skilled player, he must pawn you.

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