Are Archers Doomed to Knights?

[R25132395]

In addition to this posting I have noticed that many on my server agree that Archers are a dying breed as the game continues. Makes me wonder if me spending the mass amount of money for my archer to grow is worth it or if I should stop playing the game all together and find a new game. If the Wartune Managment/Developement team is reading this .. get ready to lose a lot of big paying spenders who have vested a lot of gaming time and dollar to a game that is not catering to each hero character equally. Talents and astrals cannot be factored in the Archer’s favor as ALL hero characters can level up any one of those features when does again nothing for the archer.

[Soratax]

^ This.
When I first started playing this game I thought I made a good choice by choosing an archer. Little did I know what I've gotten myself into. I think things really started to go downhill around level 50. I thought talents would make things better but they made things worse. Now I'm level 66 with 43,6k BR and I can't express how much I regret playing an archer. Let's say you are fighting a well-built knight who knows what he is doing at equal strength then you will get steam-rolled. Period. Have fun fighting against someone with over 13k Patk, 11k Pdef and 50k HP. You can slow down their casting speed with deep freeze but DF is only working in dungeons and solo arena. Outside ouf solo arena there is no way to slow down incoming damage except holy seal or delphic death star. Would you pay 100 rage for a chance to stun? No. Knights can easily take 2 rounds of stun with high block stats. You crit for around 2k, they heal for 2/3 of the taken damage. Bloodthirsty is useless. It hits a front row target and you will hit the knight. Regaining 1,5k HP is not worth wasting 25 rage. This would only work on low levels who put their troops in front of themselves. Not going to happen later on in the game. Another problem is rage. Our skills actually consume a lot of rage and even 3k crit stat is not nearly enough to have a good crit chance for arrow strike and other skills. Socket crit gems and sacrifice health/pdef/mdef while knights hit like a truck with enhanced will destroyer and 4 sockets full of def, hp and atk goodies. You can use runes and throw a delphic sniper here and then but your runes are not unlimited and a knight will survive a critted delphic sniper with half of their HP. Not blocked that is. You better hope your enemy is not using a rune because (enhanced) delphic destroyer and a few more hits is your end. Once your troops are dead (which will happen very fast) you will be having more rage issues if a knight takes away your rage with intercept. It's even worse if you get hit by intercept while casting a skill that requires a lot of rage. If you end up having less rage after getting hit by intercept than the skill requires WHILE you are still casting then you won't cast it. Instead you will stand there like a stupid pumpkin doing nothing, giving the enemy an extra round of attack. lol... At the moment the knights is the powerhouse of the game. Archer or mage, a well-built knight is undefeated. Have fun with that.

And about the guy who said this is rock, paper, scissor mindset: You are wrong. Once again, if you are fighting a well-built mage at equal strength outside of the solo arena you will have trouble. But I am sure I am just not playing the smart way. Right?.. Right?

I saw somebody on this forum writing something about archers: They will all fade away at high levels.
I guess that person was right. The way things are now I won't be playing much longer. I'm not rich. It's sad. Many archers on my server around my level think the same.

Archer = pay ridiculous amounts of cash to win.
If other knights and mages are paying the same amount:
Archer = pay ridiculous amounts of cash to lose.

But this is just my humble opinion.

You are very right.

Wartune is just like a car that came with a broken piece. Time to make a recall, or 33% may quit game.

[Unkn0wnX]

Yes, some high lvl players that understand what archer is like at high lvls, not some noobs posting again. Tell the developer to fix this as soon as possible r2, make the classes truly balanced pls...more fun for people as an archer, more money for you

[R24773681]

Well said Faeryn!!

The only advantage I have now is my lv17 Holy Seal ... it allow me to stun a mage and give me a chance to wipe out his troops before his 2 aoe wipe my troops out.

Also Holy Seal is on 45s CD. If the battle is prolonged, it is actually to my advantage.

About the question on troops ...angel or knights.

I have 65 Angel 57 knights.

Archers need Knights for WB and Angel for BG.

Angel is your best chance to replenish HP in BG. I accidentally led my knights to BG. After 3 successful attacks, HP down to 60% got killed by a Crusader... lost 240 honor.

Archers need Angel in BG!

Dont quit Faeryn, lets see what happens.......


Rick

^ This.
When I first started playing this game I thought I made a good choice by choosing an archer. Little did I know what I've gotten myself into. I think things really started to go downhill around level 50. I thought talents would make things better but they made things worse. Now I'm level 66 with 43,6k BR and I can't express how much I regret playing an archer. Let's say you are fighting a well-built knight who knows what he is doing at equal strength then you will get steam-rolled. Period. Have fun fighting against someone with over 13k Patk, 11k Pdef and 50k HP. You can slow down their casting speed with deep freeze but DF is only working in dungeons and solo arena. Outside ouf solo arena there is no way to slow down incoming damage except holy seal or delphic death star. Would you pay 100 rage for a chance to stun? No. Knights can easily take 2 rounds of stun with high block stats. You crit for around 2k, they heal for 2/3 of the taken damage. Bloodthirsty is useless. It hits a front row target and you will hit the knight. Regaining 1,5k HP is not worth wasting 25 rage. This would only work on low levels who put their troops in front of themselves. Not going to happen later on in the game. Another problem is rage. Our skills actually consume a lot of rage and even 3k crit stat is not nearly enough to have a good crit chance for arrow strike and other skills. Socket crit gems and sacrifice health/pdef/mdef while knights hit like a truck with enhanced will destroyer and 4 sockets full of def, hp and atk goodies. You can use runes and throw a delphic sniper here and then but your runes are not unlimited and a knight will survive a critted delphic sniper with half of their HP. Not blocked that is. You better hope your enemy is not using a rune because (enhanced) delphic destroyer and a few more hits is your end. Once your troops are dead (which will happen very fast) you will be having more rage issues if a knight takes away your rage with intercept. It's even worse if you get hit by intercept while casting a skill that requires a lot of rage. If you end up having less rage after getting hit by intercept than the skill requires WHILE you are still casting then you won't cast it. Instead you will stand there like a stupid pumpkin doing nothing, giving the enemy an extra round of attack. lol... At the moment the knights is the powerhouse of the game. Archer or mage, a well-built knight is undefeated. Have fun with that.

And about the guy who said this is rock, paper, scissor mindset: You are wrong. Once again, if you are fighting a well-built mage at equal strength outside of the solo arena you will have trouble. But I am sure I am just not playing the smart way. Right?.. Right?

I saw somebody on this forum writing something about archers: They will all fade away at high levels.
I guess that person was right. The way things are now I won't be playing much longer. I'm not rich. It's sad. Many archers on my server around my level think the same.

Archer = pay ridiculous amounts of cash to win.
If other knights and mages are paying the same amount:
Archer = pay ridiculous amounts of cash to lose.

But this is just my humble opinion.

[KnowingEyes7]

When the 50 troops come, the knight may take a serious hit in standings.

[emers0n23]

Agree! Archers owned by Knight.. =) told yah!

[SirChuck]

Wow, when I posted this I did not expect a thread of comments 4 pages long. I appreciate the time you all have taken to share your insight of the archer vs. knight dilemma. I just hit level 50 so I have no clue what to expect facing high level knights down the road except listen to the people who have experienced it. Two things recently happened that have really improved my chances against knights. 1. I was able to get the Harpy jewels equipped and maxed which helped Patk take a nice leap forward and 2. I redesigned my gem socketing. I had Patk/HP and either Mdef or Pdef in all 8 pieces. I changed to 1 level 5 HP gem and socketed everything else Mdef/Pdef. I lost 4000 HP, but gained 400 Pdef and 200+ Mdef. With another astral open to insert crit % I've been able to deal and good amount of damage and protect myself better. I'm not saying I found the secret, but have a made a leap forward and not getting completely shut down like I was before.

In regards to scatter I would love to have that skill and completely see the value in it, but at level 50 I havn't been able to delegate points to it yet on either tree. For the pve/cata's tree I've been focusing on maxing DF and Blood. I'll be able to open scatter at 52. For my PvP/WB tree I went with maxing AS, MS, DS, LF for max DPS and the first opportunity to get scatter at 54.

There appears to be a congregation of very knowledgeable archers on here. I would be grateful if you'd share your successful skill builds.

[R21577189]

Coming from a knight here.

Maybe you can take a look at the avg Patk of the knights around your server.
Suppose their Patk is 11k. Maybe you can aim your pdef to be 10k+ to 11k+.

And if their Patk is 15k++ with 13k+ to 15k+ pdef,with 67k to 70k+ hp my advice is to avoid them. I mean if you are not that well funded and you wanna kill Namira of S40 or garter girl of s1 saying Oh I spent so much on this game, and these knights did not spend as much. Then I have nothing to say.

Coming back to the issue, archers not only need high pdef to kill knights, but high level troops in front. Not only high pdef, They also need high illusion astral too ( min lvl 6). If those knights have will destroyer lvl 7 or 8, like garter girl ,zeth or namira. Then perhaps, the archer shld be very careful about the damage received. Probably Onimad can give a better account on how to kill knights like gartergirl, namira and bigblete. Since he would have spent about the same amount as namira of s40 and gartergirl of S1.

[skatsteyp]

this is a sad truth about archers. i thought i am the only one who felt this strange feeling that when i reach level 60 i got weak compare when i was on level 55.

[Superiorman]

humm well im not level 60 yet, but I will say one thing, all classes have benefits and all classes have flaws. Alot of archers build wrongly. 11k pdef is very high but whats ur patt at that stage? ive just turn lvl 50 and have almost 10k patt, now ur talking about 10 levels above me with 2 sets of new gear.... I guess i will find out later, if im wrong or not but i think a good plan of action can make the worlds of difference. archers are fast and dodge us it! archers hit harder than all others max it! skills are rage heavy, talents reduces it, and increases its power! use it. its expensive, but people talk about knights built correctly, the same should go for an archer. We started strong, and now the field evens out a bit everyones all doom and gloom. Be smart work it out, see what works and what doesnt theres always a way to win. scatter, is a very important move it will remove spikes and shield. max lunatic its menacing at level 4, its as good as rain, with the right configs, treble hit..

i personally think people are lazy and too use to an easy life... but Hey i could be wrong, i doubt i am but could be

[Superiorman]

Wow, when I posted this I did not expect a thread of comments 4 pages long. I appreciate the time you all have taken to share your insight of the archer vs. knight dilemma. I just hit level 50 so I have no clue what to expect facing high level knights down the road except listen to the people who have experienced it. Two things recently happened that have really improved my chances against knights. 1. I was able to get the Harpy jewels equipped and maxed which helped Patk take a nice leap forward and 2. I redesigned my gem socketing. I had Patk/HP and either Mdef or Pdef in all 8 pieces. I changed to 1 level 5 HP gem and socketed everything else Mdef/Pdef. I lost 4000 HP, but gained 400 Pdef and 200+ Mdef. With another astral open to insert crit % I've been able to deal and good amount of damage and protect myself better. I'm not saying I found the secret, but have a made a leap forward and not getting completely shut down like I was before.

In regards to scatter I would love to have that skill and completely see the value in it, but at level 50 I havn't been able to delegate points to it yet on either tree. For the pve/cata's tree I've been focusing on maxing DF and Blood. I'll be able to open scatter at 52. For my PvP/WB tree I went with maxing AS, MS, DS, LF for max DPS and the first opportunity to get scatter at 54.

There appears to be a congregation of very knowledgeable archers on here. I would be grateful if you'd share your successful skill builds.

^^

this is the difference between being a player and being a great player! ask how can i improve, what can i do, and so on. so many think they are prefect when they have soo much to learn and do. I still have plenty of growing but im a gamer and i always look for wholes in my play. If you see a problem with ur character fix it!

however to your comment, i have had scatter since level 48, yes it minimizes ur AS and multi shot but it work absolute wonders and the percentage difference between levels of AS and MS is tiny..... remember if a knight KNOWS u will use scatter to remove his shield and stop his spikes he wont use it against u, which changes HIS game plan and makes ur battle easier, as a knight benefits from shielding and rebounding hits, without that he is only left with block and heal, which means they are only using HALF of there benefits that helps them.

Scatter level two is brilliant in cata also, as it removes buffs from lvl 60 - 75 (i havent gotten further just yet).

hope this helps

[kaeknozuku]

use high critical and break their shield

[SuperMimi]

use high critical and break their shield

Critica Damage depends on Base Damage you dealt on your opponet.. =)

[R25622187]

just get the PVE set and you will rip through the knights with scatter/armor pierce combo.

[krackenker]

coming from a knight that have played archer....
sad but true, as you hit 50+, you will start to drop...
My only advice, dont socket crit gems. Crit rate will drop as you hit higher lvl, instead get a good atk and def/hp. Use poison to help dd and ... hope the knight doesnt block to much, use scatter to remove shield and.. try to get in a delphic during 50% if u can survive that long and have rage. I am not sure, but if you got high pdef, maybe u should try angels with front row.
But in the long run.... you're screwed.... with my current knight, i can take most archers, being afk... (that is their ais)