This will surely balance the Archer in a Legal way..

[R26757419]

Why don't you read what SinnedWill stated about DF and how to use the class.

Of course i read it, at least he had the decency to shut up after he talked nonsense.
U quoted it, and still, insist in having some sort of point.
Then u said the only useful thing "that DF will never be as archers want it to be"
But it's not enough. what exactly u want to prove?

Then he goes for poison shot(mmmh... ).. and pve gear.. explaining how to play archer..
And u quote that part too. BUT:
In gb VS Your guild i've never seen anybody from your alliance using POISON SHOT a single time, which can mean 2 thing..
1- Your guildies sux (except i played with many of them, and they don't)
2- POISON SHOT SUX

I'm gonna go for the 2nd one.
If PS is that good, why don't u suggest your guildies start using it (please do that)
And that is all u have done in here. SPamming nonsense.
Wasn't better shut up, and lurk another thread?

[SirChuck]

Hi guys, i posted a thread about AP and IS not even seeing this discussion.

1. Onimad was kind enough to answer but I would like you get others input as well. What situations are AP and IS useful? What MP's? etc... I have already passed the Catacombs.

2. I am only level 56. Would you drop MS to level 3 to be able to add AP and IS for guild battle?

3. Has anyone tried using a maxed AP on WB and did you have better success that using Delphic?
thanks

Any chance you guys can dedicate just a few seconds of your time to help me out in-between arguing?

I have GB tonight and would like to add AP and IS is you think it would be beneficial.

Thanks

[SinnedWill]

Any chance you guys can dedicate just a few seconds of your time to help me out in-between arguing?

I have GB tonight and would like to add AP and IS is you think it would be beneficial.

Thanks

IS would be the most helpful. Much of GB fights involve AoE's to dish out the brunt of the damage and since Inspiration gives everyone 80 starting rage, it's VERY LIKELY that your opponents will either: wait and build rage until the battle fills up or open with their best AoE's if the battle begins with full groups. IS has a 50% chance to hit 3 of your opponents and 50% chance to hit all 4 of your opponents (if it targets the front/center or mid/center players, you'll hit all 4, if it targets front/top or front/bottom, you'll hit 3 -assuming your target's adjacent members of their team are still alive-) and it will also debuff every person it hits. This debuff is quite significant on mages, particularly if they're using a delphic (and with proper patience/timing, you can get IS off before any class can use a delphic).

AP has typically been used far less frequently in GB's from my experiences - probably due to the fact that opposing archers are focusing on using LF, IS, or 2nd Delphic most often.

[SinnedWill]

Of course i read it, at least he had the decency to shut up after he talked nonsense.
U quoted it, and still, insist in having some sort of point.
Then u said the only useful thing "that DF will never be as archers want it to be"
But it's not enough. what exactly u want to prove?

Then he goes for poison shot(mmmh... ).. and pve gear.. explaining how to play archer..
And u quote that part too. BUT:
In gb VS Your guild i've never seen anybody from your alliance using POISON SHOT a single time, which can mean 2 thing..
1- Your guildies sux (except i played with many of them, and they don't)
2- POISON SHOT SUX

I'm gonna go for the 2nd one.
If PS is that good, why don't u suggest your guildies start using it (please do that)
And that is all u have done in here. SPamming nonsense.
Wasn't better shut up, and lurk another thread?

Just because I'm a mage doesn't mean I don't understand how archer plays out, but your point is valid in that taking tips from a mage on how to play archer would usually be the wrong way to go about getting the best advice. However, in my experiences as a mage attempting to grow on a server that WAS dominated by archers -seriously, about 75% of the top 50 players were archers on s7, hense my choosing knights as troops and eventually getting PDEF enlightenment from them... which I have at lv. 7 BTW -/facepalm'd when they announced lv. 50 troops- you may actually begin to understand how intimately I had to know/understand archers in order to compete with such an archer-heavy server.

I pointed out the most significant aspects I feel are being used against me SUCCESSFULLY. Strangely, today, the normal pair of archers that thoroughly trounce my group arena team (Feather and Spare) weren't using poison shot and I guess it must be a strange coincidence that we actually beat them. Seriously, I've been on the receiving end of their poison shots and even with my 12.3k PDEF (without defense pot, and I usually do arena with lv. 3 defense pot), I've taken DoT ticks each time I act for just under 4k. Even my meatshield knights take huge ticks from their poison shots. I suppose the greatest magic behind poison shot's damage is that it occurs when the target takes action, not you, and to take that much damage from a DoT every time I (or my teammates) act in addition to their actual attacks each turn, it becomes difficult for me to time my heals to keep the team alive. Another huge advantage poison shot has is that even if the target Dodges or Blocks the actual poison shot attack damage, the DoT damage is guaranteed and still deals full value.

I'm not going to tell you how to play archer (that was never my intent) - play the game your way and have fun, but I was only attempting to explain to you that archers aren't as badly off as you may believe and I simply suggested that you do the same thing as those whom have beaten me (so easily that it has made me frustrated to even face them at times) have done. Choice is yours, I only hoped to offer advice.

-Sinner

[KnowingEyes7]

Of course i read it, at least he had the decency to shut up after he talked nonsense.
U quoted it, and still, insist in having some sort of point.
Then u said the only useful thing "that DF will never be as archers want it to be"
But it's not enough. what exactly u want to prove?

Then he goes for poison shot(mmmh... ).. and pve gear.. explaining how to play archer..
And u quote that part too. BUT:
In gb VS Your guild i've never seen anybody from your alliance using POISON SHOT a single time, which can mean 2 thing..
1- Your guildies sux (except i played with many of them, and they don't)
2- POISON SHOT SUX

I'm gonna go for the 2nd one.
If PS is that good, why don't u suggest your guildies start using it (please do that)
And that is all u have done in here. SPamming nonsense.
Wasn't better shut up, and lurk another thread?

Look at the title of the thread. Balance.

Sin already stated it has an effect... that shoots the "it doesn't do anything" argument. The rest of the replies are to boost its effectiveness. I vehemently disagree as nearly all stages of the game reward punch damage. You guys rule in many areas. Now you want to slow down all attacks from all classes too? Are you serious?

Personally, I don't care if you use DF, PS, IS or anything else. The point as been made - DF has an effect. Was it intended to be that way? No idea.

[SirChuck]

IS would be the most helpful. Much of GB fights involve AoE's to dish out the brunt of the damage and since Inspiration gives everyone 80 starting rage, it's VERY LIKELY that your opponents will either: wait and build rage until the battle fills up or open with their best AoE's if the battle begins with full groups. IS has a 50% chance to hit 3 of your opponents and 50% chance to hit all 4 of your opponents (if it targets the front/center or mid/center players, you'll hit all 4, if it targets front/top or front/bottom, you'll hit 3 -assuming your target's adjacent members of their team are still alive-) and it will also debuff every person it hits. This debuff is quite significant on mages, particularly if they're using a delphic (and with proper patience/timing, you can get IS off before any class can use a delphic).

AP has typically been used far less frequently in GB's from my experiences - probably due to the fact that opposing archers are focusing on using LF, IS, or 2nd Delphic most often.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I am only a level 56 so I have a dilemma with going with IS.

Would you only go with IS at level 1 with the ability to max AS and MS or max IS and only have 5 skill points to allocate to AS and MS?

Thanks again.

[R26031681]

I'm a level 50 archer and I'll give some insight to what I've seen. Deep freeze works on Dual PVP and some monsters (not NM). it does not work against live competition so it has limited use. It is useful in that it lets you target someone specifically. Armor piercer is useless except that it also lets you target back row. Lowering PDEF by 100 is useless and unless you have a bunch of stamina saved up or use runes you won't be able to build stamina again to stack it 95% of the time. I only keep one of them equipped just so I can target back row. I do use DF for monsters and in Dual PVP. Bloodthirsty strike is glitchy. I only have level 1 so am supposed to gain 50% of my damage back in health. That happens about 50% of the time. Most of the time I get back far less than 50%. Just today I hit a knight for 1800 damage and healed myself 195 health. 50% would be 900, I healed for about 11% for some unknown reason. On the times I don't heal 50% it seems like it's a random amount that I heal but it's always less than 50%.
I find I use AS and MS the most often with LS sprinkled in and Bloodthirsty and I just hope it works. The poison one is worthless. It doesn't hit for enough and isn't worth the rage it consumes. You'll do more damage with any of the others. Better to build rage for LS or use one of the back row skills to hit a mage.

[BlackJackel]

Look at the title of the thread. Balance.

Sin already stated it has an effect... that shoots the "it doesn't do anything" argument. The rest of the replies are to boost its effectiveness. I vehemently disagree as nearly all stages of the game reward punch damage. You guys rule in many areas. Now you want to slow down all attacks from all classes too? Are you serious?

Personally, I don't care if you use DF, PS, IS or anything else. The point as been made - DF has an effect. Was it intended to be that way? No idea.

the point everyone is trying to make is that it SAYS it reduces CASTING speed by 100% but against live players it does NOT reduce casting speed (casting speed being a very general statement)
if it did reduce casting speed by 100% against live pvp players it would slow down ALL forms of atks and/or buff skills because they ALL have casting speeds this wouldnt be a problem but it feels like we are being lied to on how our skills are supposed to work.

[KnowingEyes7]

the point everyone is trying to make is that it SAYS it reduces CASTING speed by 100% but against live players it does NOT reduce casting speed (casting speed being a very general statement)
if it did reduce casting speed by 100% against live pvp players it would slow down ALL forms of atks and/or buff skills because they ALL have casting speeds this wouldnt be a problem but it feels like we are being lied to on how our skills are supposed to work.

Yes, I get that. However there are many skills and talents in the game for all classes where the description is incorrect. Therefore, we all feel as if we are getting the shaft.

What others aren't responding to is the fact that many events are burst/DPS-based. WB, DA, new GB, Tormented, etc all favor the archer. Since the thread is about balance, what can they do to help other classes out versus the archer? When I see another DF thread like this, it just makes me think archers want their cake and eat it too. No disrespect of course.