Suggestion: Eternal World Boss

[R24465997]

While I'm still not sure what the "WB stand in" is exactly (as my server didn't get the patch yet), I'd say that the problem for most of the players wasn't the constant clicking around as much as the lack of time to be there for all of the world bosses. This could solve that problem.

when a player reaches certain amount of damage done to the WB everyone gets a boost to attack stats.
think the first is at 300k damage dealt gives everyone 1k damage boost, and it keeps going up when other damage marks are meet.

this allows lower lvl players to get more gold/daru then before...

[Spinsar]

I much prefer this. I have a job and can only make 1 wb a day and an event that doesn't require me to be on at a specific time is always a plus in my book. It's late and I am tired so I won't go into much detail but it would be nice to have a balance in gold and daru gain between the classes. Your suggestion for bonus damage over more turns seems a bit excessive. Mages have the least amount of health and already are behind archers a bit so this will make it even worse since archers will get more turns. Also those of us who struggle to double hit cause of our connections fall behind, which is one of my main gripes of the current system but that is kind of a separate issue.

[Rhuobhe00]

+1 Agree Nice Idea

On second thought, let me elaborate and change this a bit:

One world boss, multiply its health by 10 (or any number, really, but this should last for 5 days tops). Give players the opportunity to fight it once per day for 30 minutes, whenever they choose. Players don't get killed on 6th attack - instead, attacks 1-5 deal the current amount of damage, attacks 6-10 deal double this amount, attacks 11-15 deal four times the original amount and so on. The respawn timer is still 30 seconds. Damage dealt to the boss gives the players the usual damage/5 daru/gold. However, for every 10 attacks the player makes, he gets another 20k gold/daru (as a boost for weaker players). For every 1M damage that the player deals he gets another 20k gold/daru (as a boost for strong players). For passing 1% the player gets 100k gold/daru (because more people will try killing it this way and this will be harder to achieve - also, only about one reward every week). The first three players still get +250k. As an additional prize, everyone who dealt more than 0.5% of daily damage to the boss gets 50k gold/daru.
At the end of the boss event, there is no lucky strike prize, but everyone who participated gets 100k gold/100k daru and possibly 100 honor/100 insignias.

While I'm still not sure what the "WB stand in" is exactly (as my server didn't get the patch yet), I'd say that the problem for most of the players wasn't the constant clicking around as much as the lack of time to be there for all of the world bosses. This could solve that problem.

Please, give me some feedback on this. I'm not sure if the idea has any kind of holes in it, but as I see it right now, every imbalance can be solved by simply changing some of these numerical factors.

[WickedSilk]

While I agree that classes aren't balanced, I'm afraid that I didn't create this thread to balance that out. However, the participation bonus that everyone gets (according to this plan) should help, even though it's not a lot. Why? Well, because right now, as I see it, the relative amount of successful archers to mages to knights is 6:3:1. This wouldn't improve that. However, these archers get up to 50% more than their knight counterparts of the same level. This way could reduce their advantage. For example - if an archer gets 600K gold/daru, let's say a knight can get 400K. That's a 50% bonus for the archer (400*1.5 = 600). If the archer gets 700k instead, and the knight 500k, that's a 40% bonus. (500*1.4 = 700).

Here's another solution I got for balancing out the WB that I already partially proposed:

1. The boss' 6th hit doesn't kill by default. It just deals more damage, as does every 5th hit after that.
2. The boss doesn't deal only physical, but also magical damage (physical on 3 attacks, magical on 2 in every set of attacks).

This way, knights would last longer in a fight because of their high PDEF and dodge. That way, tanky knights would be viable. Same works for mages - the 3 physical attacks they can't prevent, but the 2 magical they can almost ignore, as they should deal less damage. So, knights can shield, return damage, build tanky and generally - use their character to it's full potential without changing the character - the only thing that changes is the mechanic on the world boss that shouldn't even be there. Mages can heal, have MDEF and can endure a bit longer than right now, giving them a bit more. Archers can't heal that efficiently and won't be able to follow the first two classes entirely, but they will be able to live for more than 5 attacks as well. This should also reduce the boring 30 sec respawn time, as you'll be alive more often than not.

Another addition to this partial solution could be, when you die, the system gives you a message "You have survived X attacks, your bonuses are multiplied by 1 + 0.01*X" or a similar formula. (for 1 attack = 1% bonus, but it could be done so that more attacks give out even more gold, for example 1 + 0.001*(X^2) which should give 10% for 10 attacks, but 0.1% for 1 attack and 40% for 20 attacks).

While I believe that this could work, it might require more work to balance things out perfectly, and could create a range of new problems by itself, of course.

Why could this solve the class imbalance?
Simply because the WB is the only thing everyone complains about. From my viewpoint, archers get the WB, mages get the cata, knights get a bit of the necropolis and duels. But the archer advantage is the critical one, it would seem (as mages don't dominate cata so absolutely, nor do knights dominate the necropolis or duels). However, despite this, the top 8 players on my server are: for player level (archers:mages:knights) - 3:3:2 and the same for battle rating (more than likely some potted) - 3:3:2 (these are NOT all the same people!).

[KnowingEyes7]

I put the class imba there since before people start getting fancy with adding to or taking away from the WB system, there's a fundamental issue with it already that needs to be addressed.

[ElusionM]

How about just making the boss crit resistant?

[WickedSilk]

How about just making the boss crit resistant?

I don't think that this is a good idea, but I'm an archer, so what do I know.

I mean, this doesn't nerf just the archer, it also destroys everyone trying to do a crit build. And for the archer, critting is a vital mechanic. Take that away or even somehow reduce it, and archers will become irritating to play.

However, as I said before, please do not concentrate on balancing out the classes right now. That is supposed to be secondary (and not the topic of this thread), but I believe that the 6+ attack mechanic presented before solves this better than the current one.

[KnowingEyes7]

I don't think that this is a good idea, but I'm an archer, so what do I know.

I mean, this doesn't nerf just the archer, it also destroys everyone trying to do a crit build. And for the archer, critting is a vital mechanic. Take that away or even somehow reduce it, and archers will become irritating to play.

However, as I said before, please do not concentrate on balancing out the classes right now. That is supposed to be secondary (and not the topic of this thread), but I believe that the 6+ attack mechanic presented before solves this better than the current one.

Errr, wha? How does nullifying/reducing crit destroy a crit build when it impacts one type of event? How does this make an archer irritating to play? Crits could be reduced (more?) to bring damage output inline with other classes. I do put forth though that nerfs elicit cries of anguish more often than boosts to other classes.

The problem with your suggestion is it does not balance anything. In fact, it creates even more of a gap between damage levels as well as the casher vs. non-casher. The final attack is put into place so that lesser players have a standard or goal to reach. If you remove that standard - or scale attack damage of the world boss - the cashers will very likely enjoy more damage (as expected) and also less downtime than ever before versus a non-casher character. Your system now adds extra rounds during an encounter as a benefit. Under the current system, all players get six rounds of love; the only method to gain more gold and daru is to boost damage or revive.

On top of all this, it adds to the gap between classes - especially with the revive. Archers won't give a rat's if they can revive and continue quickly pounding away as a primary damage dealer while a knight, admittedly will get more shots on the boss on average under your system but since they don't specialize in burst damage, will still suffer. Why? A knights' delphic is our bread and butter as the first attack - so prolonging the encounter (read: a single set of rounds) will likely reduce our output. I don't know about you but when I choose to revive, I want my Balen to mean just as much as a Balen for another class. If I do not choose to revive, I want each encounter to net me the most gold and daru possible against another class.

[WickedSilk]

Would simply setting world boss attempts to 20 per day be good enough? Instead of a time limit, have an attempt limit, same as with everyone else?

And then using the boss attacks as mentioned before?

I've included some of your suggestions here, and this is how I see it:

PROS:
- no respawn time - it is a silly mechanic as I see it and cashers can't really predict how much gold/daru will it give them (could be none!)
- balens could be used for additional attempts (say, up to 10) so all classes could benefit from it equally, if a single attempt is balanced between the classes
-> a single attempt is balanced between classes (is it? if not, why?)
- no lag during the world boss - or if there is some lag it won't stop you from doing it efficiently - players with better computers won't get better rewards
- balens/voucher bonuses last for the whole server day
- can do world boss all day divided into chunks of time
- the balancing problem is now more modular and can be analyzed on the sample of a single attempt
- the reward system is easier to use - for example, a new quest could be created for using 10 WB attempts + when the boss dies, everyone gets bonuses dependant on the amount of attempts used against that boss etc.

CONS:
- no more competition during the world boss (there could still be a counter for total damage dealt, though, but it could update slowly during the day)
+ ?

[B4nsh33]

Errr, wha? How does nullifying/reducing crit destroy a crit build when it impacts one type of event? How does this make an archer irritating to play? Crits could be reduced (more?) to bring damage output inline with other classes. I do put forth though that nerfs elicit cries of anguish more often than boosts to other classes.

The problem with your suggestion is it does not balance anything. In fact, it creates even more of a gap between damage levels as well as the casher vs. non-casher. The final attack is put into place so that lesser players have a standard or goal to reach. If you remove that standard - or scale attack damage of the world boss - the cashers will very likely enjoy more damage (as expected) and also less downtime than ever before versus a non-casher character. Your system now adds extra rounds during an encounter as a benefit. Under the current system, all players get six rounds of love; the only method to gain more gold and daru is to boost damage or revive.

On top of all this, it adds to the gap between classes - especially with the revive. Archers won't give a rat's if they can revive and continue quickly pounding away as a primary damage dealer while a knight, admittedly will get more shots on the boss on average under your system but since they don't specialize in burst damage, will still suffer. Why? A knights' delphic is our bread and butter as the first attack - so prolonging the encounter (read: a single set of rounds) will likely reduce our output. I don't know about you but when I choose to revive, I want my Balen to mean just as much as a Balen for another class. If I do not choose to revive, I want each encounter to net me the most gold and daru possible against another class.

I plan on making my mage a crit mage at level 70. And, you are taking away archers rage, what they supposed to use, rage runes? Not all archers have the rage set I know about 3 crit knights...... so, this just sucks for trying to 'balance' classes at wb. If you want balance, take away the afk mode that makes archers supreme at wb, that would be a good start.

[KnowingEyes7]

I plan on making my mage a crit mage at level 70. And, you are taking away archers rage, what they supposed to use, rage runes? Not all archers have the rage set I know about 3 crit knights...... so, this just sucks for trying to 'balance' classes at wb. If you want balance, take away the afk mode that makes archers supreme at wb, that would be a good start.

What sucks? Reducing crit rate? I'm sure something could be worked out to negate the ~40% (or more) damage difference between archers and knights on the world boss. Crit knights are extremely endgame so that's out. I will admit, I've seen some funky YouTUbe vids where archers can use the AFK mode during an encounter to boost damage output - so, yes, nix that.

Still OP wants to discuss a means to merge all WBs into one to balance the "quantity of time available" factor. Admirable.

[WickedSilk]

I have changed the first post to reflect my conclusions here. Please comment and tell me if I missed something or if something else should be put there that we haven't mentioned yet.

[JohnNguyen]

My server haven't got this updated yet. Can't wait to see what happens

[R26741713]

KnowingEyes, you obviously don't have an archer at all or you would realize crit rate is not just dmg to an archer, it is also a main source of rage building. If they reduce the crit rate to get archer dmg more in-line with other classes our rage gen drops to nothing and we would be reduced to nothing but arrowshot. K night builds mad rage with lots of different things, a mage builds rage just from dmging something with thier passive, an archers passive only gives 5 rage on a crit. And the archer advantage on WB is the offset to the Knights rage gen and the mages AoE. The other 2 classes shine in dungeons and PVP, archers own WB. Seems fair to me.

[KnowingEyes7]

KnowingEyes, you obviously don't have an archer at all or you would realize crit rate is not just dmg to an archer, it is also a main source of rage building. If they reduce the crit rate to get archer dmg more in-line with other classes our rage gen drops to nothing and we would be reduced to nothing but arrowshot. K night builds mad rage with lots of different things, a mage builds rage just from dmging something with thier passive, an archers passive only gives 5 rage on a crit. And the archer advantage on WB is the offset to the Knights rage gen and the mages AoE. The other 2 classes shine in dungeons and PVP, archers own WB. Seems fair to me.

Why is there a first, second and third place on the WB then? For archers only? Really? We need gold just as much as you do. In fact, Balen/voucher boosts for knights net a smaller return. I dunno about you, but I bet you'd complain if your real life dollar returned less than someone else's.

Obviously you don't play much WT. Cut me a break if you think knights "shine" as you state. Archers are likely second only to mages in cata, they become numero uno in necro, they are DD and virtually required in MPs and GB they (along with mages) can formulate strike forces. Knights? We can 1 v 1 well and 3 v 3 we have our place. MPs, we can be excluded. Cata, we are last and in necro, arguably second.

Not sure why you believe events are "okay" unbalanced. All I have stated, and in the past as well, is this event can be equalized. Suit to taste.

By the way, how'd you like that training quest for the events in February? :P