I'd rather play to win than pay to win.

[iebayedmyskillz]

You know it must be frustrating for you to actually converse with someone that speaks English as their native language. I have read a lot of your posts and all you do is argue with people that don't have the capacity or ability to properly counter you. It's kind of cute.

Not a single part of what you have brought to this thread has in any way, shape, or form, added to the topic of conversation on a level that would be of benefit to anyone... other than, at this point, my own amusement.

So thanks

Edit: this was to KnownTroll7

[KnowingEyes7]

You know it must be frustrating for you to actually converse with someone that speaks English as their native language. I have read a lot of your posts and all you do is argue with people that don't have the capacity or ability to properly counter you. It's kind of cute.

Not a single part of what you have brought to this thread has in any way, shape, or form, added to the topic of conversation on a level that would be of benefit to anyone... other than, at this point, my own amusement.

So thanks

Edit: this was to KnownTroll7

We see tons of threads like this and it gets old. You seemed like a reasonable person and some of your points made sense... until some of the justifications were put forth. I don't understand anyone who doesn't research a little before dropping cash. I mean, if you have the means and don't care, sure... but then when the reality hits you (read: game has P2W elements), I cannot see how you can complain about it. It does add to the discussion.

Besides, it's easy to degrade this into a flame-fest. Your last post pretty much has that spelled out.

[Nimras186]

You know it must be frustrating for you to actually converse with someone that speaks English as their native language. I have read a lot of your posts and all you do is argue with people that don't have the capacity or ability to properly counter you. It's kind of cute.

Not a single part of what you have brought to this thread has in any way, shape, or form, added to the topic of conversation on a level that would be of benefit to anyone... other than, at this point, my own amusement.

So thanks

Edit: this was to KnownTroll7

Lol don't mind him, he love to protect R2, and they are a GOD to him, everything they do is correct and the best no matter what, if they killed his hero and deleted it would he praise them and start over praising how the almighty R2 was doing the right thing lol.

But he is funny to read i give you that.

[KnowingEyes7]

Lol don't mind him, he love to protect R2, and they are a GOD to him, everything they do is correct and the best no matter what, if they killed his hero and deleted it would he praise them and start over praising how the almighty R2 was doing the right thing lol.

But he is funny to read i give you that.

How am I defending R2 though? Examples? Probably best to start a different topic/thread.

[iebayedmyskillz]

We see tons of threads like this and it gets old. You seemed like a reasonable person and some of your points made sense... until some of the justifications were put forth. I don't understand anyone who doesn't research a little before dropping cash. I mean, if you have the means and don't care, sure... but then when the reality hits you (read: game has P2W elements), I cannot see how you can complain about it. It does add to the discussion.

Besides, it's easy to degrade this into a flame-fest. Your last post pretty much has that spelled out.

The fact that you've see tons of threads like this only furthers the credence of my post. I wrote what I felt to be a very poignant post and your response was as I said before, of no value.

"I only have two questions for you. Before you invested in the game, didn't you see all the gems, soul crystals, mounts, clothes/wings and the like available for purchase? If so, wasn't it possible at that time to think, "some people are bound to heavily invest in the game and become powerful"?"

All that reply is, is an attempt to say that my points are invalid because I should have known from the start. Which in itself, again, furthers the fact that Wartune is a pay to win game- which is, why I am leaving. Since you agree, you could have just said that instead.

[dethmatic]

The fact that you've see tons of threads like this only furthers the credence of my post. I wrote what I felt to be a very poignant post and your response was as I said before, of no value.

"I only have two questions for you. Before you invested in the game, didn't you see all the gems, soul crystals, mounts, clothes/wings and the like available for purchase? If so, wasn't it possible at that time to think, "some people are bound to heavily invest in the game and become powerful"?"

All that reply is, is an attempt to say that my points are invalid because I should have known from the start. Which in itself, again, furthers the fact that Wartune is a pay to win game- which is, why I am leaving. Since you agree, you could have just said that instead.

this is what he does don't let him provoke you, dude has no life other than to instigate people into a flame war

[iebayedmyskillz]

this is what he does don't let him provoke you, dude has no life other than to instigate people into a flame war

It's only a flame war if the other person has the knowledge to create fire. I'm just happy he's bumping a thread that I hope gets some positive attention. If I had read something like this before playing (which despite the fact me research wasn't in depth, I did read around on the forums) I may have chosen to not spend money right away and taken pride in my character for getting to where he is without it.

[dethmatic]

true that i was just hoping myself that r2 would realize the potential of the game and learn from past mistakes but alas that did not happen and the game went down the same path as crystal saga did r2 is the game destroyer

[KnowingEyes7]

The fact that you've see tons of threads like this only furthers the credence of my post. I wrote what I felt to be a very poignant post and your response was as I said before, of no value.

"I only have two questions for you. Before you invested in the game, didn't you see all the gems, soul crystals, mounts, clothes/wings and the like available for purchase? If so, wasn't it possible at that time to think, "some people are bound to heavily invest in the game and become powerful"?"

All that reply is, is an attempt to say that my points are invalid because I should have known from the start. Which in itself, again, furthers the fact that Wartune is a pay to win game- which is, why I am leaving. Since you agree, you could have just said that instead.

No, I simply asked two questions as I wanted to see the rationale behind your postulations. It served as an extension and was very much on topic. I never said your original points were invalid - I stated that I couldn't fathom why you did, well, what you did. Difference of opinion.

The game has P2W elements. Yes, the new global 3%+ on all stats and initial rage boost seems unfair. However, this goes along with a power spectrum of sorts - free players to extreme cashers. Stagnant dollars means little to businesses and they are in business to make more. It can be seen that wherever you were on the aforementioned power spectrum has just been lessened with the inclusion of the patch. Is *that* fair? Depends on whom you ask.

[iebayedmyskillz]

No, I simply asked two questions as I wanted to see the rationale behind your postulations. It served as an extension and was very much on topic. I never said your original points were invalid - I stated that I couldn't fathom why you did, well, what you did. Difference of opinion.

The game has P2W elements. Yes, the new global 3%+ on all stats and initial rage boost seems unfair. However, this goes along with a power spectrum of sorts - free players to extreme cashers. Stagnant dollars means little to businesses and they are in business to make more. It can be seen that wherever you were on the aforementioned power spectrum has just been lessened with the inclusion of the patch. Is *that* fair? Depends on whom you ask.

My power wasn't lessened, I bought a nice set of clothing and leveled it up, I can still smash the majority of people- I just don't feel good about it anymore because I know that my money is what's making me win. That to me, is not fair competition. I suppose it wasn't before, but because the disparity wasn't as visible, it effected me less.

Also, you can't fathom why someone would toss a few dollars to a "Free to play" game because they enjoy it?

[KnowingEyes7]

My power wasn't lessened, I bought a nice set of clothing and leveled it up, I can still smash the majority of people- I just don't feel good about it anymore because I know that my money is what's making me win. That to me, is not fair competition. I suppose it wasn't before, but because the disparity wasn't as visible, it effected me less.

Also, you can't fathom why someone would toss a few dollars to a "Free to play" game because they enjoy it?

Let me understand this. You spent $160 for the past three months... yet you call this "toss a few dollars" (your reference of 'someone' in response to my 'you')? I'm not quibbling with semantics here - as I get your gist - but calling a collective of that kind of cash "a few" warrants a bit of a check here. I know of players in-game who would almost kill for that kind of investment. To put this sum in perspective - $160 by means of VIP would get a player to VIP 9 in a given timeframe (and a tad more). That can be of a great help with some time and little effort.

Speaking of investment, are you also stating that the $160 was because you solely liked the game and wanted to support it? Did you not know that that sum was also going towards bettering your character so to speak? If you knew of this "bettering", why did you do it in stages (wings [stage 1]; clothes [stage 2]) if you felt bad about it? Are you stating that the first 'stage' wasn't really OP but the second 'stage' was?

Lastly, the gem and soul crystal aspects of the game you mentioned were always there. You may have known this from the beginning - as I cannot tell from the given posts but those are likely one of *the* contributing factors in being "OP". When you stated you bought one gem to finish synthing a higher level one, I would have assumed (now wrongly I see) that you would have thought that if you can do this, someone else can do it hundreds-fold - as well as with the crystals - no matter what the financial cost. Right then (at 'stage' 1), the crux of your argument was apparent. This is what I am having a problem accepting. I mean, I can acknowledge this, if you stick to said argument.

I'm really trying to acknowledge your thinking here. That's it. Trolling OTOH, is far simpler to do. If I wanted to troll, I wouldn't take the time in trying to comprehend what the rationale was behind the posts. Back and forth in this respect is inevitable - and when cash is involved in the equation, tempers flare.

[Barbarossa]

Yea this thread right here is why I don't spend on a browser game right away. I started this game shortly after R2 published it (S6). I played till December before I invested anything into the game. From December till about February I invested about 100 bucks plus 2 months of VIP. At the time I made the purchase I had the concept of bettering my toon. I knew there would be no chance of beating the heavy cashers simply because they could outspend me. What I didn't fathom though was how little that investment would go. With the implementation of patch 1.5 or 1.51, whichever you prefer, this game has just become too much of a P2W model. So to continue the thread, goodluck in your endeavors OP. I know you aren't the only one who will be quitting.

[lisbth]

The original post about Wartune being a "Pay to win" game is right. If you are a serious/competitive gamer who has fun by being competitive, there's three choices in this game. 1. Pay thousands of dollars to keep up with the other cash cows. 2. Tolerate it and just play. 3. Just simply quit because you will be unhappy losing to them.

[iebayedmyskillz]

Let me understand this. You spent $160 for the past three months... yet you call this "toss a few dollars" (your reference of 'someone' in response to my 'you')? I'm not quibbling with semantics here - as I get your gist - but calling a collective of that kind of cash "a few" warrants a bit of a check here. I know of players in-game who would almost kill for that kind of investment. To put this sum in perspective - $160 by means of VIP would get a player to VIP 9 in a given timeframe (and a tad more). That can be of a great help with some time and little effort.

Speaking of investment, are you also stating that the $160 was because you solely liked the game and wanted to support it? Did you not know that that sum was also going towards bettering your character so to speak? If you knew of this "bettering", why did you do it in stages (wings [stage 1]; clothes [stage 2]) if you felt bad about it? Are you stating that the first 'stage' wasn't really OP but the second 'stage' was?

Lastly, the gem and soul crystal aspects of the game you mentioned were always there. You may have known this from the beginning - as I cannot tell from the given posts but those are likely one of *the* contributing factors in being "OP". When you stated you bought one gem to finish synthing a higher level one, I would have assumed (now wrongly I see) that you would have thought that if you can do this, someone else can do it hundreds-fold - as well as with the crystals - no matter what the financial cost. Right then (at 'stage' 1), the crux of your argument was apparent. This is what I am having a problem accepting. I mean, I can acknowledge this, if you stick to said argument.

I'm really trying to acknowledge your thinking here. That's it. Trolling OTOH, is far simpler to do. If I wanted to troll, I wouldn't take the time in trying to comprehend what the rationale was behind the posts. Back and forth in this respect is inevitable - and when cash is involved in the equation, tempers flare.

No temper to flare, and if you read what I wrote it really is simple. I'm not sure why I'm breaking this down for you, maybe it will help someone else avoid a trap.

When I started playing the game, the only item I saw that couldn't be achieved by in game means were the wings. (I assumed I could get other mounts and didn't realize the stats were additive, because let's be real, why would multiple mounts increase a characters stats additively... I'm riding all 6 of my mounts at the same time!!!!) I was around level 30-35 before I purchased VIP, I figured a monthly sub to unlock the full features of the game isn't bad (by full features I mean being able to complete all tasks in a given day without investing 10+hours including wait time). When I was around level 40, I decided to take the plunge and grab some of those sexy angel wings. $20 for some nice looking wings, that in and of themselves are not game breaking but that make me look super sexy.

I started on my server late, so I knew it being a game that you could only do so much in a given day, I would never catch up if everyone continued to play and didn't miss a day, but I was determined, and slowly but surely I started to catch up. It wasn't until I had caught up to the top 20 or so that I began to realize exactly what effect dumping money into this game could achieve. I hadn't cared up until that point because I had accepted that because they spent more TIME they were stronger than me. I honestly thought that by catching up in level I would have access to more soul crystals/gems/stones and would be able to level the playing field. This was true to an extent.

I spent money every few weeks on little things like completing event quests or crypt keys and the most recent thing the warrior's call pack thing (not logging in to check the name). It honestly never occurred to me that people would spend thousands of dollars to increase their stats. It never occurred to me that there was no cap on crystals, and that getting gems was capped to around 2 level 4 gems a day (with a crypt key). I hadn't realized some of the people I couldn't beat actually started after me but that the money they spent on their mount alone gave them an unbreakable advantage.

It's my fault for thinking otherwise, but the whole point of this thread was not that I am unhappy I spent money- it's that I am unhappy with how large of a gap is attainable through spending money. This gap is now widened by time as server merges, cross realm BG's, and costumes have been added. Why would someone roll on a new server now? That was some of their largest income... If people know that eventually their server will just be merged, and that the main source of pvp action is against people that have been playing a huge amount of time more than them (with little regard to skill as being the determining factor in battles), there is no reason for people to make new characters, there is no shot at doing things better on a different server or catching up to people you will be forced to fight with. These problems are merely compounded by the fact you can purchase your way to godly mounts, gems, and soul engraving.

Knowing then what I know now would have indeed saved me money, but it's the fact that I liked this game for what it could be and not what it would become that causes me sadness. Not anger. Not rage.

[KnowingEyes7]

No temper to flare, and if you read what I wrote it really is simple. I'm not sure why I'm breaking this down for you, maybe it will help someone else avoid a trap.

When I started playing the game, the only item I saw that couldn't be achieved by in game means were the wings. (I assumed I could get other mounts and didn't realize the stats were additive, because let's be real, why would multiple mounts increase a characters stats additively... I'm riding all 6 of my mounts at the same time!!!!) I was around level 30-35 before I purchased VIP, I figured a monthly sub to unlock the full features of the game isn't bad (by full features I mean being able to complete all tasks in a given day without investing 10+hours including wait time). When I was around level 40, I decided to take the plunge and grab some of those sexy angel wings. $20 for some nice looking wings, that in and of themselves are not game breaking but that make me look super sexy.

I started on my server late, so I knew it being a game that you could only do so much in a given day, I would never catch up if everyone continued to play and didn't miss a day, but I was determined, and slowly but surely I started to catch up. It wasn't until I had caught up to the top 20 or so that I began to realize exactly what effect dumping money into this game could achieve. I hadn't cared up until that point because I had accepted that because they spent more TIME they were stronger than me. I honestly thought that by catching up in level I would have access to more soul crystals/gems/stones and would be able to level the playing field. This was true to an extent.

I spent money every few weeks on little things like completing event quests or crypt keys and the most recent thing the warrior's call pack thing (not logging in to check the name). It honestly never occurred to me that people would spend thousands of dollars to increase their stats. It never occurred to me that there was no cap on crystals, and that getting gems was capped to around 2 level 4 gems a day (with a crypt key). I hadn't realized some of the people I couldn't beat actually started after me but that the money they spent on their mount alone gave them an unbreakable advantage.

It's my fault for thinking otherwise, but the whole point of this thread was not that I am unhappy I spent money- it's that I am unhappy with how large of a gap is attainable through spending money. This gap is now widened by time as server merges, cross realm BG's, and costumes have been added. Why would someone roll on a new server now? That was some of their largest income... If people know that eventually their server will just be merged, and that the main source of pvp action is against people that have been playing a huge amount of time more than them (with little regard to skill as being the determining factor in battles), there is no reason for people to make new characters, there is no shot at doing things better on a different server or catching up to people you will be forced to fight with. These problems are merely compounded by the fact you can purchase your way to godly mounts, gems, and soul engraving.

Knowing then what I know now would have indeed saved me money, but it's the fact that I liked this game for what it could be and not what it would become that causes me sadness. Not anger. Not rage.

Thanks. Points noted.