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Bloodthirthsty Strike nerf for archers. Why?

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  • Bloodthirthsty Strike nerf for archers. Why?

    Hey guys, I am an archer on server 83

    Now for a while it hasn't really bothered me, but recently it does start to grind my gears when I verse a mage and I see them healing themselves for 15-20k health.
    Sometimes when I am lucky enough to get my bloodthirsty strike to crit the enemies troops I would do about 20k+ damage however when I receive the healing benefit of the move,
    It will give me about 10k health back. Now that's fine; but, it is not what is promised. I should be receiving 70% heals instead of 50-60%. I tested this out many times in bg.
    I would hit a troop for about just over 22k damage, while I only get 12.4k ish health back.
    Now don't call me a mathematician but I would like to show you the working out for this.

    heal=22000x70%
    =15400 (this is the amount that we should recieve)

    =22000x56.5%
    =12430 (This is the amount I would normally get while dealing that much damage)

    As you can see 15400#12430... 12430#70%

    I don't think I have to tell you that the archers skill tree falls in comparison to the others classes, why make it worse?
    Honestly in my opinion they half what ever extra heals you get past 10000. (I'm too lazy to show calculations)
    Now mages excel at healing (they have 2 moves for it), knights pretty much heal whenever they block(which is almost every time they get hit),
    archers only have the one skill for healing with a crazy cooldown(though you can use the instinct talent to shorten this; however, ain't nobody got time for dat).
    Don't let me tell you how bad our Aoe cooldown is aswell.

    Soo.. yeah. tell me what you think, leave screenshots of your bloodthirsty stikes, mages can put your crazy heals up too(warriors you pretty much gain 3000hp when my troops hit you for 700).
    When I can I will put up a screenshot. TY4urTime

  • #2
    Maybe archers should heal better IF they don't dominate at WB.

    It's hard to believe that archers want everything.
    Top in WB, Crits, Top in Divine Altar, and now comparable healing with mages.
    Officially retired from Wartune and Forums.
    [No longer logging in]

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    • #3
      Holy **** if you think knights block "every hit". Recall we take damage during those hits so it's not as 'holy grail' as you think it is.

      Though the skill states "50%" (unless this was recently changed), players have accepted it probably should have read "up to 50%". I get that critting should boost this but you already have the best DD against single targets as well as a skill (DF) that allegedly was fixed to slow down a target's skill usage (not sure if I agree with this but many archers have stated as such). You basically ravage DPS events galore. Now you want mage-style heals?

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      • #4
        this is another greedy noobish archer, look at this: "knights pretty much heal whenever they block(which is almost every time they get hit)". Do you know block is already nerfed recently, and right now even with 3000 block rate we can only block 50%.

        Archer has "Deep freeze" and "Scatter" such those nice PVE skills, so that they are welcome everywhere, CAN SOMEONE RECALL ANY GOOD PVE SKILLS FOR KNIGHTS? no, we don't have.
        Archer dominate WB constantly, can we borrow your high crit damage?
        _________________________________

        Monkey King [S3] US EAST
        Character Name: Ghang
        Status: Played since April 21, 2014

        Wartune [S67] US EAST
        Character Name: Halifax
        Status: Played since Nov 11, 2012

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        • #5
          Mage is still dominate in the PVP and arena, its hard get bettre that 3 strong mage, and aoe kill must every singel type of team in 1 or 2 turns .
          Character - Taggen
          Server - S100 Goulpass Keep
          Class - Archer
          Battle Rating -2.4M BR
          Slyph - Orange Electro, Light, Dark
          Highest CW ranking - 26th

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          • #6
            Like I said, it doesn't matter me that much. I am happy with the heals, it's just that why does the skill tree state that archers should get back 70% of the damage back when you don't. Calm down people, I just want what is promised to me.
            Click image for larger version

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            If wartunes wanted me to heal 50% of the damage and 6%more with qte, then why doesn't it just say so?
            Last edited by Rafaiel; 03-15-2013, 12:19 AM.

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            • #7
              raf makes a very valid point with this argument but i think it goes upon not the actual damage done but the damage that would have been done if you did not crit with the attack, at least i think thats the way it works, try it out some and test it some more check the percentage of heal with crit blood attack and a non crit blood att if the percentage is same my assumption is wrong if different than i could very well be right
              giving game one last chance :

              guild leader : endangered
              server 164 brighthollow
              class : archer
              current level : 54
              favorite title : Balenor's Number One Guild Master

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              • #8
                Issues with bloodthirsty shot (and regeneration astrals) values not adding up to the appropriate %-value in their descriptions seem to be a result of the order in which damage rolls occur with respect to %-based damage modifiers and %-based damage reduction astrals (enhanced will destroyer, determination, pvp medallion, goddess' blessing, aegis, buffs, possibly even raw crit value, etc.). Thing is, somewhere in the damage rolls, those %-based modifiers factor in - unfortunately, when it comes to bloodthirsty shot and regeneration astrals, the point at which it measures the amount of healing received actually factors in before the final damage value is calculated (I'm assuming).

                Now, this issue not only causes reductions in in %-based heal values from damage, but it's also causing Deflection Astrals to dish out more damage than the %-based value it displays. I believe the cause of this is again dependant upon %-based damage increasing/decreasing equipment/astrals/buffs and the way it procs with relation to the way damage rolls are calculated - basically, deflection procs damage back based upon (attack value - defense value) / 2 * (skill damage modifier + qte damage modifier if applicable + other damage moifiers [astral, crit, buff and medallion]). At this point in the damage roll is when deflection value seemingly gets determined, but the actual damage total isn't actually finished. THEN that value gets reduced by %-damage reduction factors (goddess' blessing astral, aegis, pvp medallion) then comes block chance (possible further reduction) and finally dodge chance.

                Or... I could just be wrong entirely on bloodthirsty shot and maybe it's just the archer's passive giving damage bonus that doesn't actually get factored in with regards to the heal value. Either way, it's something in the math that's mixed up and not an intentional nerf (that I'm aware of - BTS has always behaved funny) to archers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CondorHero View Post
                  Maybe archers should heal better IF they don't dominate at WB.

                  It's hard to believe that archers want everything.
                  Top in WB, Crits, Top in Divine Altar, and now comparable healing with mages.
                  What does improper results to do with World boss, crits, divine altar. I am mainly stating that as an archer I am not receiving proper benefits.
                  Think of it this way, I go to mcdonalds and I buy a large meal and they give me medium sized fries. I'm not angry with that, I just say "huh, they didn't give me my large fries" and eat the rest of it. Later on down the track some friends and I are eating at mcdonalds and I might bring up a conversation about how they didn't give me the large fries. That's pretty much what this post is about.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rafaiel View Post
                    What does improper results to do with World boss, crits, divine altar. I am mainly stating that as an archer I am not receiving proper benefits.
                    Think of it this way, I go to mcdonalds and I buy a large meal and they give me medium sized fries. I'm not angry with that, I just say "huh, they didn't give me my large fries" and eat the rest of it. Later on down the track some friends and I are eating at mcdonalds and I might bring up a conversation about how they didn't give me the large fries. That's pretty much what this post is about.
                    I don't think it's a result of misadvertisement, but more about the math behind what determines combat rolls AND at what precise moment in the combat roll do %-based heal values get determined. Check 2 posts up.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SinnedWill View Post
                      Or... I could just be wrong entirely on bloodthirsty shot and maybe it's just the archer's passive giving damage bonus that doesn't actually get factored in with regards to the heal value. Either way, it's something in the math that's mixed up and not an intentional nerf (that I'm aware of - BTS has always behaved funny) to archers.
                      I do like the part where you say that the passive damage bonus doesn't count, that could be true.

                      dethmatic, crits do play a roll in the heals. Many a time I will hit someone with my non crit bloodT strike and hit them for 5000+ damage and get back 3k, but if i crit them for 9k i would normally get back 6k+.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by R25664847 View Post
                        this is another greedy noobish archer, look at this: "knights pretty much heal whenever they block(which is almost every time they get hit)". Do you know block is already nerfed recently, and right now even with 3000 block rate we can only block 50%.
                        In PVP, i am an archer with 2.5k crit i rarely see a crit from my non 100% crit moves.
                        Archer has "Deep freeze" and "Scatter" such those nice PVE skills, so that they are welcome everywhere, CAN SOMEONE RECALL ANY GOOD PVE SKILLS FOR KNIGHTS? no, we don't have.

                        Archer dominate WB constantly, can we borrow your high crit damage?
                        C'mon man ,Sheild , reflect, passive defence and damage, heals when you block, did you forget about these.

                        Believe me I would do anything to have will destroyer and +10 rage when I attack. But sadly, I am an archer and I need crit for rage, Nothing stops a mage or a knight from getting crit values up.
                        I do world boss most times mages and knights can go head to head with me. Just today a knight got first and a mage got second in my server(there was another mage in the top 10, but ya, pretty much the rest was archers). But like most strong archers, they are also cashers. I may be wrong in saying this, but I believe that higher ratio of the archers past level 35 are cashers, the same can't be said about the two other classes. Now I don't have the facts to prove it, but from what I have seen on my server and in battlegrounds i don't see many archers go past 35 without cashing up.

                        Ask any archer would they rather use crits or will destroyer and see what they say, you have my answer.
                        (sorry for going off topic guys)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rafaiel View Post
                          Ask any archer would they rather use crits or will destroyer and see what they say, you have my answer.
                          (sorry for going off topic guys)
                          Why is there a need to ask? We just need to look at rankings and click on the archers.
                          100% of archers use crits and 0% use will destroyer.

                          If they'd rather use will destroyer, they would use it already.
                          Officially retired from Wartune and Forums.
                          [No longer logging in]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rafaiel View Post
                            C'mon man ,Sheild , reflect, passive defence and damage, heals when you block, did you forget about these.

                            Believe me I would do anything to have will destroyer and +10 rage when I attack. But sadly, I am an archer and I need crit for rage, Nothing stops a mage or a knight from getting crit values up.
                            I do world boss most times mages and knights can go head to head with me. Just today a knight got first and a mage got second in my server(there was another mage in the top 10, but ya, pretty much the rest was archers). But like most strong archers, they are also cashers. I may be wrong in saying this, but I believe that higher ratio of the archers past level 35 are cashers, the same can't be said about the two other classes. Now I don't have the facts to prove it, but from what I have seen on my server and in battlegrounds i don't see many archers go past 35 without cashing up.

                            Ask any archer would they rather use crits or will destroyer and see what they say, you have my answer.
                            (sorry for going off topic guys)
                            well for one knights block got nerfed it isent that great anymore two sure we get a ton of rage but have u ever played a knight? the rage cost for our skills are rediculous so are the cooldowns even our basic skill has 5 second cooldown and three knights suck for WB if ur server has a first place knight must be a huge casher and useing vouchers and balens to buff/revive xD also at higher lvls shield kinda loses its use unless ur a big cashers archers/mages break it in 1 turn maybe 2 if ur HP is really high

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                            • #15
                              oo shane wut u doing here XD... (. and no raf stop it,lol no more archerss ..lol they already rule wb and mp heeheheheh ... noesssss noesss noesss XD

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