why do they not compensate us for the glitch archers have on world boss

[KnowingEyes7]

I'm just simply pointing out that other classes have other areas in which they excel. I have not played Knight but I have seen Knights ranging from non cashers to light cashers advance further in Catacombs than archer counterparts. As we know Mages breeze through it.

Personally I don't see a problem with Archers getting more DPS, it's what their class was designed for, fast DPS. Where else would an average archer, excel?

I'm okay with an archer being a DD and excelling at it. The issue at large is the equality of events. Virtually every single one is geared for a DD. I'll back off of that since this thread is a discussion of the WB. Why have a first, second and third place bonus if one class has a huge leg up (or two if mages have a very good day) and are all but destined to have it?

[ElusionM]

I haven't seen any events where Archers excel, Divine Altar maybe? Is that what you're referring to?

the 250k/200k/150k bonus gold has lost it's value to me. I'll make between 800k-1m gold. That 250k is only about 25% of what I earn anyways.
Even though as servers open up that's more than most will make, but that being said that's when Mages and Knights have a chance to get it when it's most useful. Unless heavy casher, a light casher warrior/mage will get those Arena rewards.

[KnowingEyes7]

I haven't seen any events where Archers excel, Divine Altar maybe? Is that what you're referring to?

the 250k/200k/150k bonus gold has lost it's value to me. I'll make between 800k-1m gold. That 250k is only about 25% of what I earn anyways.

New BG point system favors single target DPS. Tormented favors DPS. DA favors DPS.

Though the percentage of the top prizes against the damage reward has dropped off, it still is present. If top three (and 1%) prizes were empty and the race was "for giggles", then that's fine. However, to reward an innate aspect of a class begs for at least a review if not for an adjustment. As one of my colleagues have said, "Two dollars is... two dollars." Even if knights could swallow the given reward at WB, how many rewards in other events can a class be extended before the whole system is called into question?

Another aspect I cannot fathom is why there isn't a developer post at one of the CHN clusters with an explanation of why the event(s) were set up this way. Sometimes I believe if there were some sort of summarization with factual basis, maybe some of this outcry would die out.

[shadow1477777]

fix pvp then consider fixing wb. mages and knights completely destroy archers, we destroy wb, deal with it or quit it. (Yes I rather see a fair pvp than to get more gold)

[KnowingEyes7]

fix pvp then consider fixing wb. mages and knights completely destroy archers, we destroy wb, deal with it or quit it. (Yes I rather see a fair pvp than to get more gold)

You can't link the two though. I could go on and on about mages as well but that's not the point at hand. If you make a thread about it, then hell yeah I'll be right there. :P

[krackenker]

omfg.. yet another wb QQ thread.. when will you guys accept that archer owns wb? IT's A GOD DAM ASPECT OF THE GAME BUILT IN THEIR ADVANTAGE. ALL CLASSES HAVE THOSE.....
Archer is the worst class in solo pvp and it needs the highest gold consumption to compete.. then maybe it is good that it gets more gold!?

Do you who complain even tried another class? Do you know of the gold consumption it takes for an archer to be equal to a mage or an archer? ... My guess is no.
Archers have skills that is just about as good for wb as you can get... specially with the patch now that crit resistance has been removed.
Are you aware that they lose an astral slot in everything except wb compared to EWD for knight/mage...
Archer is a class that is best played by cashers, because it's advantages lies in stuffs like necropolis, wb (depending on the server you might need cash, you might not... in most servers there is someone or more then 1 that revives/fully buffes on atleast 1 wb, so this is something that is 1st for cashers, then archers etc..)
Stop crying over the fact that they win wb.. because if a mage spends 5m gold he will get X gain. archer would probably need 7.5m+ gold to get same gain in terms of effectiveness...
Before you go crying again, please play each class to maybe 50-60+ so you will know the advantages/disadvantages of each class..

If any class should complain atm it should be knight, block been nerfed loads and clothes giving other classes the rage advantage that was belonging to knights. Sure knights can also get starting rage, but for a knight the problem is the timer being on cooldown, not the rage.

[KnowingEyes7]

omfg.. yet another wb QQ thread.. when will you guys accept that archer owns wb? IT's A GOD DAM ASPECT OF THE GAME BUILT IN THEIR ADVANTAGE. ALL CLASSES HAVE THOSE.....
Archer is the worst class in solo pvp and it needs the highest gold consumption to compete.. then maybe it is good that it gets more gold!?

Do you who complain even tried another class? Do you know of the gold consumption it takes for an archer to be equal to a mage or an archer? ... My guess is no.
Archers have skills that is just about as good for wb as you can get... specially with the patch now that crit resistance has been removed.
Are you aware that they lose an astral slot in everything except wb compared to EWD for knight/mage...
Archer is a class that is best played by cashers, because it's advantages lies in stuffs like necropolis, wb (depending on the server you might need cash, you might not... in most servers there is someone or more then 1 that revives/fully buffes on atleast 1 wb, so this is something that is 1st for cashers, then archers etc..)
Stop crying over the fact that they win wb.. because if a mage spends 5m gold he will get X gain. archer would probably need 7.5m+ gold to get same gain in terms of effectiveness...
Before you go crying again, please play each class to maybe 50-60+ so you will know the advantages/disadvantages of each class..

If any class should complain atm it should be knight, block been nerfed loads and clothes giving other classes the rage advantage that was belonging to knights. Sure knights can also get starting rage, but for a knight the problem is the timer being on cooldown, not the rage.

Odd. I am complaining as I am a knight. Already crunched on the fact that mages, with rage, get 3x aoe's at the start and a knight gets 1 (sub 100% as well). Problem is, though clothes give another advantage, the PvE sets eventually do the same thing.

Because of all that, WB should give us knights more gold and daru, the purpose for this thread. :3 Seriously, I still don't understand as to why earmark the top spots for a particular class. Hell, call it "damage test" or "archer boss". :P What should we call the other DD events?

[bladewarior]

To be realy honnest i dont get the whining about archers being better at wb, fact is if you gear youre knight mage etc and use the same pots vouchers balens in wb you can be in top 10,
give you an example go look at S3 our top archers is Shuu he spent more or around the same balens as me (knight quickblades) there are helsing archer darkraven archer gezoel mage and diavanille mage all balen users around the same br and gear lvl. If they buff up at wb thats the top 6 as you can see all classes represented and no the mages and me dont use crit astrals
we all use will destroyer.

[TatsuAzhrei]

i am one of the top 20 players on my server. i play mage. will destroyer of course. i use dual tree, one for heals, one for dps (mainly pvp). on the rare occaision that the cashers are not spending during a wb, i will get rank3-7 easy. if i spend i can get rank 1 easy. if cashers are on wb, i can still easily get in top10, but i cannot out dps similar br archer. i don't complain. the gap really isn't that much if we're both spending about the same.

i spent a lot of time building my toon. cata/camps/mpds/plunders. pretty much the entire daily quest list every day if i could (work tends to get in the way 5 days a week). it took a while. but i got it. ~52.5k br as a moderate cash spending player. once i hit ~47k br, before the cross-server bg's everyone avoided me in bg's unless they had several blessings. although i rarely chased honor. and it wasn't my br that got me those wins. it was strategy.

i frequently plundered players 3~7 levels above me, because i would find them in rankings, and see that they had neglected their mdef. i have a dps rotation that works very efficiently, with as few lightnings for rage needed. i never heal in a plunder or arena. just rip through them. unless i'm way over powered (more than 3k br diff) i tend to win. unless my opponent has actually chosen a strategy as well. i find way too many players out there that don't think. can't double hit (wb or single player bosses only). or level too quickly for their br to be appropriate for their level. and by appropriate i mean, i've seen 30k br lv60's. it's quite sad.

it breaks down to the turtle vs the hare race. in the end, a stead pace wins the race. don't rush it. don't whine because people who've been around longer have an advantage. work your toon, and you'll get there.

at this moment, i've been playing my mage for ~4 months. ~52.5k br. lv68. lv18 talents. (15 seal/3passive) 6 lv6 astrals. 1 lv5 astral waiting for when i decide to level to 70. (astrals all yellow/gold/orange w/e you call it) lv10 guild skills in all but power and charisma (those are lv9). all available mounts except wildfire and hurricane (not counting G.M. GB win horse or stables level horses) and i've upgraded my clothing to lv3, and my wings to lv3. and i didn't spend a fortune to get it. i just choose the most efficient route i can find to get what i want. i've cashed on wb twice the entire life of my toon. and only to prove a point.

it's a competitive game. with different events. each class has an advantage over the others in different events. gold is a factor, but not nearly as much as you seem to think. it's how you spend it. at the very least, vip status a mere 7.99/mo (same as most internet tv/movie services cost) gets you 8 spins every 3-4 days that can easily net you 580k if you spin the wheel when it has all 3 gold prizes on it. not counting bonus vip tokens from weekly vip gift. if you like the game, it's a very worthwhile investment. that alone can put you ahead of half the crowd.

telling r2 to make your life easier will not accomplish anything. this is a game, yes, but you live in the real world. and i hate to break it to you, but life isn't fair. period. take what you know and learn from your mistakes, and make yourself, and your toon better.

-here endeth the lesson-

[KnowingEyes7]

To be realy honnest i dont get the whining about archers being better at wb, fact is if you gear youre knight mage etc and use the same pots vouchers balens in wb you can be in top 10,
give you an example go look at S3 our top archers is Shuu he spent more or around the same balens as me (knight quickblades) there are helsing archer darkraven archer gezoel mage and diavanille mage all balen users around the same br and gear lvl. If they buff up at wb thats the top 6 as you can see all classes represented and no the mages and me dont use crit astrals
we all use will destroyer.

You'd do better with 5/5 crit astrals at WB. I use 7/6 in favor of Snipers.

Top 10 isn't the issue. It never has been. It's the extra rewards in DD events that are the rub. Granted the rewards are small - but stack this type of "win" over and over and the evidence is clear. It's single target destruction at its finest.

[KnowingEyes7]

i am one of the top 20 players on my server. i play mage. will destroyer of course. i use dual tree, one for heals, one for dps (mainly pvp). on the rare occaision that the cashers are not spending during a wb, i will get rank3-7 easy. if i spend i can get rank 1 easy. if cashers are on wb, i can still easily get in top10, but i cannot out dps similar br archer. i don't complain. the gap really isn't that much if we're both spending about the same.

i spent a lot of time building my toon. cata/camps/mpds/plunders. pretty much the entire daily quest list every day if i could (work tends to get in the way 5 days a week). it took a while. but i got it. ~52.5k br as a moderate cash spending player. once i hit ~47k br, before the cross-server bg's everyone avoided me in bg's unless they had several blessings. although i rarely chased honor. and it wasn't my br that got me those wins. it was strategy.

i frequently plundered players 3~7 levels above me, because i would find them in rankings, and see that they had neglected their mdef. i have a dps rotation that works very efficiently, with as few lightnings for rage needed. i never heal in a plunder or arena. just rip through them. unless i'm way over powered (more than 3k br diff) i tend to win. unless my opponent has actually chosen a strategy as well. i find way too many players out there that don't think. can't double hit (wb or single player bosses only). or level too quickly for their br to be appropriate for their level. and by appropriate i mean, i've seen 30k br lv60's. it's quite sad.

it breaks down to the turtle vs the hare race. in the end, a stead pace wins the race. don't rush it. don't whine because people who've been around longer have an advantage. work your toon, and you'll get there.

at this moment, i've been playing my mage for ~4 months. ~52.5k br. lv68. lv18 talents. (15 seal/3passive) 6 lv6 astrals. 1 lv5 astral waiting for when i decide to level to 70. (astrals all yellow/gold/orange w/e you call it) lv10 guild skills in all but power and charisma (those are lv9). all available mounts except wildfire and hurricane (not counting G.M. GB win horse or stables level horses) and i've upgraded my clothing to lv3, and my wings to lv3. and i didn't spend a fortune to get it. i just choose the most efficient route i can find to get what i want. i've cashed on wb twice the entire life of my toon. and only to prove a point.

it's a competitive game. with different events. each class has an advantage over the others in different events. gold is a factor, but not nearly as much as you seem to think. it's how you spend it. at the very least, vip status a mere 7.99/mo (same as most internet tv/movie services cost) gets you 8 spins every 3-4 days that can easily net you 580k if you spin the wheel when it has all 3 gold prizes on it. not counting bonus vip tokens from weekly vip gift. if you like the game, it's a very worthwhile investment. that alone can put you ahead of half the crowd.

telling r2 to make your life easier will not accomplish anything. this is a game, yes, but you live in the real world. and i hate to break it to you, but life isn't fair. period. take what you know and learn from your mistakes, and make yourself, and your toon better.

-here endeth the lesson-

...And herein lies your lesson.

Your server is not competitive if you can revive and be #1. Come to ours at Kong S1. Top 10 ALWAYS revive. Top few 100% buff (this varies). We've been around: we know not to rush (cashers safely ignore this), we certainly want a good ROI and we max XP/gold/daru wherever possible. It doesn't matter if you plunder 3 to 7 levels above your own (not the issue), it doesn't matter about arena and your strategy (not the issue), it doesn't matter if so-and-so has been around longer (we're comparing like/paralleled characters) and it doesn't matter about the 580k VIP 3x spins (all classes have access to this).

The aforementioned really isn't even an issue. What is painfully apparent is what is being all but ignored: Knights absolutely blow when it comes to DPS events - and the world boss is the crux of character development, something else that is being discounted. The fallback being presented is, "but knights dominate in PvP!" (to which I do not ascribe). The problem with that sentiment is, how does this happen in a timely manner if other classes accumulate it in a 3:2 ratio in their favor? Class advantage should be taken into account for events. If not, they quickly become more intra-class contests rather than inter-class ones.

We knights are not telling R2 to "strongly recommend" anything to make our lives easier; we're searching for that holy grail, namely that most elusive of concepts - balance.

[Manjures]

very good idea mate, had somthing like that in mind to

[Zaaqen]

Who, me? .

I know I'm late responding, but I was referring to the person who had posted right before you, I just forgot to quote.


People seem to be missing the point that this isn't about temporary gains - It's about a permanent advantage on the most important aspect of the game. A leg up in gold sinks that never goes away is extremely unbalancing in long term character development.

I won't argue pvp isn't balanced properly, but archers on my server don't seem to be having any issues raking in the honor, so it's not hurting them too bad. ---- For those who keep using, "stop whining" as your excuse, please look at any post KnowingEyes, myself, or a few others have made that are all laid out logically and without any whining. Explaining why something isn't fair, and backing it up isn't whining. Good balance keeps players happier, and happy players play .. and pay .. longer.

As things stand, 2 classes are actually detrimented due to a blind choice they made, having no idea what their class actually did when they selected it. If at the character select screen one character said, "This character make more money than the other two and will advance faster throughout the entire game because of it" then you could tell everyone to stop whining.

[PunkPetal]

If at the character select screen one character said, "This character make more money than the other two and will advance faster throughout the entire game because of it" then you could tell everyone to stop whining.

This

I totally agree

[Billy_McF]

You can't link the two though. I could go on and on about mages as well but that's not the point at hand. If you make a thread about it, then hell yeah I'll be right there. :P

I always do love your argument about not being able to link PvP to the world boss.

In one breath your saying it gives archers a huge advantage getting all the extra gold in the WB, then when someone points something out, your automatic response is "You can't Link the two though".
Archers use the gold gained, exactly as other classes. Primarily to boost their BR, skills, equipment etc. And these items are not used solely in the WB. So in fact they are inherently linked, no matter what you say

As I have said before, where are these HUGE advantages evident in the game, other than at the WB.
The facts speak for themselves. Archers do earn on average 40% more than their counterparts, but we do not end up being 40% better than the other classes.
So something is wrong fundamentally with the overall argument that is presented about this.