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Knights block or archers crit

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  • Knights block or archers crit

    Personally I feel Archers crit rate needs to be reduced, or Knights block needs to be increased.
    Sorry for leaving you mages out, but you do mdmg and both archers and kngihts have crappy mdef anyway,and you have HEAL!!! so your cool =P
    but for knights and archers there is a clear disadvantage that should not be there.

    Balanacing = knight beats archer
    Mage beats knight
    Archer beats mage

    That is the way it is susposed to work, knights are supposed to have crazy defense and hp way above the other classes.
    Archer is susposed to have crazy pdmg over the other classes
    and mage , well they have mdmg which the other classes are not susposed to be able to defend well against, and they can HEAL!!!!

    Im not saying there arent alot of good knights out there, but I am saying that those knights will have at some point been forced to use cash shop just to compete against the other classes who have not had to use cash shop.

    By any standard, Knights should have as high a block rate as archers have crit rate (you know, defense vrs dmg, like it should be?) or archers have as low crit rate as knights have block.
    Now i do remember archers complaining a while back about their crit rate dropping, but according to everyone, that was fixed and they crit 99% of the time again, so why not get off your ***** and fix knights block rate? =P (no offense intented, lol)
    Last edited by supermogey; 03-31-2013, 08:57 AM.

  • #2
    All I will say is:-

    Knights already wipe the floor with archers, or should if built correctly anyway. Obviously not all archers, but one's that are around the same build stage.

    As for the crit being 99% of the time I think you have gotten mixed up. Archers will never crit 99% of the time in PvP, maybe in WB it will seem high (but not 99%), but not in PvP.
    Last edited by Billy_McF; 03-31-2013, 08:33 AM.

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    • #3
      I would suggest you ask archers about there crit rate before you say it needs to be reduced. In WB the crit rate has gone up for everyone. I understand that some people may have to redo their toon to take advantage of that and it helps archers more than anyone, but the crit rate for archers has dropped since the last patch in everything other than WB. I dont know about the knights block rate but saying archers crit 99% of the time is a very inacurate comment

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      • #4
        i already expected this response - but I had some hope that people would not make assumptions that I came here without doing the necessary research... but obviously people are still way too quick to jump the gun when defending their classes 'perks'.
        I havnt just got annoyed at this and decided to try get my character buffed, this is something ive noticed for quite some time and thought since i was on the forums, id finally say something about it.
        Now, as for 'ask archers'? I have done, my guild had 2 of the top archers on my server in it and they were the ones who used the exact line "i used to crit 99% of the time, now i dont' whenever the problem first occured, but now that seems to be fixed they still say they crit 99% of the time. Now 99% is obviously an over exageration on their part, but at the same time, the over exageration is used as a method to put their point across that they crit more often than they dont and I know from personal experience of being on the recieving end that archers crit way too often even during pvp. An archer, geared to the same standard as me can rip through my shield with one crit (well 2 crits if you count that double skill as 2) now if you think about the fact that my shield holds out for 20% of my hp + a bonus 800, that means an archer gear as well as a knight can essentially kill a knight in a couple of hits. From a balancing point of view, this should never happen, especially when geared to the same standard.
        Also as i stated before, i said there were many strong knights, BUT a knight has to put way more money into the game to keep up with the other classes.
        So dont take me for another "he so op whiner".

        Comment


        • #5
          I personally think your top 2 archer were being a bit too loose with there words. As you have to take different factors into account. Low level knights and mages usuallly do not have the crit chance reducation astral on which is why we crit'd so much initially. Also Knights built well are a pain in the backside, as they can block and regain hp, also hit you while your hitting them through there spikes move, and on top of that stop an archer using his one useful tool, CRIT!

          Now for you to say either of those two need to be buffed your crazy, if anything archers need more attack focused buffs, as at present, we have the highest rage consumption, the least direct % from each attack, and have to contend with people with a crit stopper, that is SOLELY built to REDUCE our ONLY good attribute.

          PS, if an archer is ripping through your shield in two hits your built wrong! you need higher hp for a shield to be effective, couple that with higher pdef than us and similar attack its mental to think you need a buff. Your block is sufficient as it will stop us criting and give you hp at the same time, when its works.

          Just my 50 cents on this matter. The money factor isnt true as knights have similar items (we get slight more mdef than you but you get tons more pdef than us) to us but BECAUSE OF YOUR BUFFS you gain an addition 1k-2k more pdef than us. theres no way knights should get more advantages...

          Our talents doesnt increase our attack, we get a stupid 5% defence talent, why do i want more defence I was born to attack lol
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          • #6
            Originally posted by supermogey View Post
            i already expected this response - but I had some hope that people would not make assumptions that I came here without doing the necessary research... but obviously people are still way too quick to jump the gun when defending their classes 'perks'.
            I havnt just got annoyed at this and decided to try get my character buffed, this is something ive noticed for quite some time and thought since i was on the forums, id finally say something about it.
            Now, as for 'ask archers'? I have done, my guild had 2 of the top archers on my server in it and they were the ones who used the exact line "i used to crit 99% of the time, now i dont' whenever the problem first occured, but now that seems to be fixed they still say they crit 99% of the time. Now 99% is obviously an over exageration on their part, but at the same time, the over exageration is used as a method to put their point across that they crit more often than they dont and I know from personal experience of being on the recieving end that archers crit way too often even during pvp. An archer, geared to the same standard as me can rip through my shield with one crit (well 2 crits if you count that double skill as 2) now if you think about the fact that my shield holds out for 20% of my hp + a bonus 800, that means an archer gear as well as a knight can essentially kill a knight in a couple of hits. From a balancing point of view, this should never happen, especially when geared to the same standard.
            Also as i stated before, i said there were many strong knights, BUT a knight has to put way more money into the game to keep up with the other classes.
            So dont take me for another "he so op whiner".
            I would love to see those archers who crit 99% of the time in PvP or even PvE. An archer will crit 100% of the time on Multi Shot as that skill is a guaranteed crit, so even with 0 crit stat, every time they fired MS it would crit.
            I am yet to see an Archer that crits 100% of the time on every hit of Lunatic which is the main AOE of an archer. So I suggest your archer friends are giving you inaccurate info.

            I don't know what level you knight is, but if your below 55 then you are going to be at a disadvantage. Once you hit 55-65 then you will start to close the gap rather quickly, then by Lv70 you should be laughing while killing archers that are comparable to you.

            As to jumping to conclusion, I am far from doing that. I have played the game and found knights easy to beat at lower levels. But now at Lv70, Archers are beaten easily by knights.

            Comment


            • #7
              im not built wrong, im using patk, mdef and hp gems, im using pdef patk mdef block and another astral i cant remember.
              My gear has mostly lvl 10 stats on it, its all refined as high as it can go and im using lvl 6 guild skills.
              I rarely block in an arena match, maybe once every few battles, occasionally i might get it twice in a battle but very rarely.
              Archers crit me all the time, even the ones in my guild, so no its not guild skills either.
              You are obviously facing off against heavy cash shop users because in a fair fight, knights dont stand a chance.
              The other big issue in pvp is that obviously archers make more from world boss, as do mages for that matter, so they mostly always have higher leveled units and since a knight can only attack the front line, unless, the back line has less health or they use there 30 second cool down that costs half there max rage they cant do any damage to the player, so by the time the knight has worked his way through the knight units high pdef and health, the knight is already half dead.
              Also to say im built wrong, yet im always in top 20 at minimum in the arena, is a bit of a stretch. im built right, they are built right, but yet there is a decernable difference.
              And you obviously didnt pay attention to alot of what i wrote before.... I said the archers where obviously exagerating about the 99%.... the point they were making was that they crit more often than not, and they do it against well geared players.

              But thus far, this is a quite a one sided debate as the only people to say anything are archers trying to defend their 'perks'.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Billy_McF View Post
                I would love to see those archers who crit 99% of the time in PvP or even PvE. An archer will crit 100% of the time on Multi Shot as that skill is a guaranteed crit, so even with 0 crit stat, every time they fired MS it would crit.
                I am yet to see an Archer that crits 100% of the time on every hit of Lunatic which is the main AOE of an archer. So I suggest your archer friends are giving you inaccurate info.

                I don't know what level you knight is, but if your below 55 then you are going to be at a disadvantage. Once you hit 55-65 then you will start to close the gap rather quickly, then by Lv70 you should be laughing while killing archers that are comparable to you.

                As to jumping to conclusion, I am far from doing that. I have played the game and found knights easy to beat at lower levels. But now at Lv70, Archers are beaten easily by knights.
                again..... come on people READ everything i say.. not just parts.. i already stated the 99% was obviously an over exageration on their part to get the point across...
                im lvl 55, with lvl 55 full enchanted pvp gear with mostly lvl 10 stats....
                i really need people to stop thinking im an undergeared low level noob who doesnt actually know what he is talking about >.<

                and ill say again... ALWAYS ranked at a very bare minimum in the top 20 of arena.....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by supermogey View Post
                  im not built wrong, im using patk, mdef and hp gems,
                  well if you dont have pdef gems then yes your build is wrong...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by supermogey View Post
                    again..... come on people READ everything i say.. not just parts..
                    im lvl 55, with lvl 55 full enchanted pvp gear with mostly lvl 10 stats....
                    i really need people to stop thinking im an undergeared low level noob who doesnt actually know what he is talking about >.<

                    and ill say again... ALWAYS ranked at a very bare minimum in the top 20 of arena.....
                    Then take a leaf out of your own book and read everything I posted.

                    In particular the part about closing the gap when moving from 55-65 etc. As you have just hit 55, you will start to see that gap closing rapidly as you head towards 65.

                    Knights are slow to build, slow to level and a pain in the butt to play at lower levels. No-one is arguing that - As some people say, the knight is the HARD difficulty level for Wartune.

                    Oh and you need Pdef gems to defend against Archers, so maybe add them in!
                    Last edited by Billy_McF; 03-31-2013, 09:48 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by R26092269 View Post
                      well if you dont have pdef gems then yes your build is wrong...
                      actually, i think you will find im not. Unless you are using legendary gear you only have a total max of 3 gems per equipment piece. Knights have low patk thus they need the boost, they need hp to be a reliable tank and for the shield to work as it was intended and mdef because a knights mdef is practically non existant without gemming for it. A knight is the tank class of the game, you need to be able to ward off as much dmg as possible especially in dungeon to keep the group alive, without mdef a tank is going to get shredded in the later dungeon or have you not been through them? lol. Knights already have high pdef, especially when using the pdef gold astral, thus gemming for more would leave you severely lacking in mdef, unless you plan to nuke your dmg capability of health and essentially your tanking capability.
                      So no, im not built wrong, maybe not built the way you are, but not wrong... lol

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Billy_McF View Post
                        Then take a leaf out of your own book and read everything I posted.

                        In particular the part about closing the gap when moving from 55-65 etc. As you have just hit 55, you will start to see that gap closing rapidly as you head towards 65.

                        Knights are slow to build, slow to level and a pain in the butt to play at lower levels. No-one is arguing that - As some people say, the knight is the HARD difficulty level for Wartune.

                        Oh and you need Pdef gems to defend against Archers, so maybe add them in!
                        ok well maybe you are right, in the next 5 levels we will see if any difference starts appearing, but concidering its only incremental upgrades through levels without changing armour, i cant see how much is going to change, but im will to give it a week of leveling to find out. As testing is the only sure fire way of getting a reliable answer.

                        See above for pdef, yeah i could switch out gems specifically for battling archers, but i cant always have my gems switched out and I cant properly prepare for guild battles in that fashion.
                        Also try cata with a knight without mdef gems, its suicide, lol

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by supermogey View Post
                          actually, i think you will find im not. Unless you are using legendary gear you only have a total max of 3 gems per equipment piece. Knights have low patk thus they need the boost, they need hp to be a reliable tank and for the shield to work as it was intended and mdef because a knights mdef is practically non existant without gemming for it. A knight is the tank class of the game, you need to be able to ward off as much dmg as possible especially in dungeon to keep the group alive, without mdef a tank is going to get shredded in the later dungeon or have you not been through them? lol. Knights already have high pdef, especially when using the pdef gold astral, thus gemming for more would leave you severely lacking in mdef, unless you plan to nuke your dmg capability of health and essentially your tanking capability.
                          So no, im not built wrong, maybe not built the way you are, but not wrong... lol

                          I agree with what your saying in this post apart from your not the wrong build. Look at the title of your Thread.

                          You are comparing a knight to an archer, not how a knight operates in dungeons or against mages.
                          So equipping Mdef gems is the wrong build to combat archers. You want to be killing archers, then you have to equip Pdef gems.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Im just generalising the whole experience of a knight. Archers dont need to regem for dungeons/pvp, niether do mages.
                            Now the other factor, i regem to fight archers, that leaves me completely 100% at the mercy of mages... but again, mages and archers dont have this regemming dilema... so why should knights?
                            Im not saying a knight cant beat archers, im saying they are at a disadvantage as a class in the game.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Billy_McF View Post
                              I agree with what your saying in this post apart from your not the wrong build. Look at the title of your Thread.

                              You are comparing a knight to an archer, not how a knight operates in dungeons or against mages.
                              So equipping Mdef gems is the wrong build to combat archers. You want to be killing archers, then you have to equip Pdef gems.
                              exactly what Billy said. Obviously using only patk mdef and hp gems against magic atk opponent is a perfect build but as you were complaining about archers killing you...that build is just wrong against them period.

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