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Knights block or archers crit

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  • #16
    Originally posted by R26092269 View Post
    exactly what Billy said. Obviously using only patk mdef and hp gems against magic atk opponent is a perfect build but as you were complaining about archers killing you...that build is just wrong against them period.
    Check my post above yours (obviously we posted around same time... lol
    As i was saying, i dont believe knights cant beat archers, i think its unfair that at any point to defeat one class or the other, it puts the knight at a major disadvantage for one class, which other class dont have to worry about.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by supermogey View Post
      Im just generalising the whole experience of a knight. Archers dont need to regem for dungeons/pvp, niether do mages.
      Now the other factor, i regem to fight archers, that leaves me completely 100% at the mercy of mages... but again, mages and archers dont have this regemming dilema... so why should knights?
      Im not saying a knight cant beat archers, im saying they are at a disadvantage as a class in the game.
      You do realise that you have exactly the same sockets/gems available as an archer or mage don't you. It's your choice what to equip in each slot.
      Most people go with a primary Atk gem in every piece of equipment, leaving 2 slot's free in each item, giving a total of 16 free slot to equip how you like. (or more if you have legendary gear)

      Now archers have to equip gems to fight knights and Mages, as well as be able to get through dungeons, the same goes for mages.
      For you to suggest it is harder for a knight to manage gems is complete and utter rubbish.

      If you want to beat archers you have to equip Pdef gems. If you want to beat mages you have to equip Mdef gems. You can equip both and hold your own against all the other classes due to your higher Hp and Def stats from the get go.

      Now if you equipped 4 mdef, 4 pdef and 4Hp gems along with 8 Patk, that should still leave you 4 slots open, you use these to bolster whichever stat you feel needs improvement, assuming you have 3 open slots in all equipment.
      You can not build to combat 1 class and totally ignore the other class, then complain when you can't beat both. You have to find the balance, just as archers and mages have to do.
      Last edited by Billy_McF; 03-31-2013, 10:36 AM.

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      • #18
        right, so your ignoring the fact that archers and mages do exactly what you say knights cant do (equip to fight both classes)? Im sorry but my friends play both archers and mages and i know that they stick with one gem build to fight all classes and do it a lot better than knights do.
        A knight to kill a mage needs mdef, leaving him screwed for archers
        A knight needs pdef to defend against archers and their crits, so in turn they become cannon fodder for mages.
        Archers and Mages can effectively fight all classes without haveing to change their gems about, thus they are never left wide open solely to one class....
        Or if knights do what you say and go half and half, it still leaves them severely lacking in mdef.
        the only thing an archer needs to worry about are patk and mdef, patk to get through knights def and mdef to defend against mages since archers attacks will rip through mages def...
        so dont tell me archers have to manage their gems just like knights... lol
        I actually have a rational mind.

        (oh and just incase you for some reason wonder why i didnt say archers needed to worry about pdef, is simply because knights attacks arent all that strong, so an astral is really all you need when compared to the damage you do, unless ofc the knight has went full pdef and left himself wide open to mages... so my point still stands, knights dont have it as easy when it comes to gemming.)
        Last edited by supermogey; 03-31-2013, 10:38 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by supermogey View Post
          right, so your ignoring the fact that archers and mages do exactly what you say knights cant do (equip to fight both classes)? Im sorry but my friends play both archers and mages and i know that they stick with one gem build to fight all classes and do it a lot better than knights do.
          A knight to kill a mage needs mdef, leaving him screwed for archers
          A knight needs pdef to defend against archers and their crits, so in turn they become cannon fodder for mages.
          Archers and Mages can effectively fight all classes without haveing to change their gems about, thus they are never left wide open solely to one class....
          Or if knights do what you say and go half and half, it still leaves them severely lacking in mdef.
          the only thing an archer needs to worry about are patk and mdef, patk to get through knights def and mdef to defend against mages since archers attacks will rip through mages def...
          so dont tell me archers have to manage their gems just like knights... lol
          I actually have a rational mind.

          (oh and just incase you for some reason wonder why i didnt say archers needed to worry about pdef, is simply because knights attacks arent all that strong, so an astral is really all you need when compared to the damage you do, unless ofc the knight has went full pdef and left himself wide open to mages... so my point still stands, knights dont have it as easy when it comes to gemming.)
          an archer worrying only about patk and mdef will sure do well against some mages, but will die to all others archers and knights...your mind is not so rational.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by supermogey View Post
            right, so your ignoring the fact that archers and mages do exactly what you say knights cant do (equip to fight both classes)? Im sorry but my friends play both archers and mages and i know that they stick with one gem build to fight all classes and do it a lot better than knights do.
            A knight to kill a mage needs mdef, leaving him screwed for archers
            A knight needs pdef to defend against archers and their crits, so in turn they become cannon fodder for mages.
            Archers and Mages can effectively fight all classes without haveing to change their gems about, thus they are never left wide open solely to one class....
            Or if knights do what you say and go half and half, it still leaves them severely lacking in mdef.
            the only thing an archer needs to worry about are patk and mdef, patk to get through knights def and mdef to defend against mages since archers attacks will rip through mages def...
            so dont tell me archers have to manage their gems just like knights... lol
            I actually have a rational mind.

            (oh and just incase you for some reason wonder why i didnt say archers needed to worry about pdef, is simply because knights attacks arent all that strong, so an astral is really all you need when compared to the damage you do, unless ofc the knight has went full pdef and left himself wide open to mages... so my point still stands, knights dont have it as easy when it comes to gemming.)
            You forgot one small thing didn't you? Archers also have to fight Archers so Pdef is needed. Mages fight mages so Mdef is needed.
            And if you think that knights attacks are weak then I think you need to take a long hard look at how you have built your knight.

            But you show me what this magic gem is that archers and mages use please!

            The only reason that you have to change gems is because you don't know what the hell your doing!

            Comment


            • #21
              dieing to other archers maybe, due to the high dmg output, but as i said, knights.... unlikely, a knights dmg is low, rage build up is very slow, their attacks skills are slower, there attack skills cost most of their rage, the only 2 that dont are the rage builder and the one that hits the weakest enemy. it can be a challenge for knights to get past high leveled troops before their health is knocked quite significantly down by archers.
              so no, archers with a bit less pdef will not die to all knights. They would only die to knights who have turned themselves into mage cannon fodder.....
              im looking at this from every angle, yes i kinda forgot about facing off against your own class, but i admitted that, but being able to spec to defeat 2 classes is better than being able to spec to beat 1.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Billy_McF View Post
                You forgot one small thing didn't you? Archers also have to fight Archers so Pdef is needed.
                And if you think that knights attacks are weak then I think you need to take a long hard look at how you have built your knight.

                And as a closing comment I think you need to step back and look at what your doing!

                The only reason that you have to change gems is because you don't know what the hell your doing!
                lol... ok mister informed. tell me how to increase a knights patk past the point of gemming for it, increasing skill level, having the stats on gear and astrals? (ignoring guild skills because everyones differ and ive tested against people in ym guild)
                so unless you have an answer to that question, dont bother reducing yourself to an infants level of debating and outright insulting me.

                Comment


                • #23
                  My god you really need to stop this, you are digging even deeper every time you post.

                  Rage build up is never a problem for knights. The problem is the CD on their skills. Knights and mages build rage with each attack. Archers rely on Crit to build rage.

                  Knights are the anti-christ of archers..they have the Pdef to counter our Patk, and if you can't fathom that little bit of info out I can't help you any further.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by supermogey View Post
                    lol... ok mister informed. tell me how to increase a knights patk past the point of gemming for it, increasing skill level, having the stats on gear and astrals? (ignoring guild skills because everyones differ and ive tested against people in ym guild)
                    so unless you have an answer to that question, dont bother reducing yourself to an infants level of debating and outright insulting me.
                    Tell me how to increase any stat past those points. I don't think praying works in this game, but I could be wrong.

                    I can't increase an archers Patk without doing all of the above, the little bit extra an archer get's in Patk is countered by the extra Pdef a knight gets!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Block isn't a problem really. People say it is "nerfed" but the real answer it was adjusted so that knights wouldn't be god like. Besides if you have a reasonable amount of block 2k+ then you still get a decent amount of blocks there. If you have 3k+block you will start to feel like you did before this patch. Crits are a bit high up there but I believe it compensates for what archers lack(no offense to archers.) bc let's get real here archers at higher lvl arn't too good of a class. They need something to help them against other classes and that's high crit rate. With out crit rate they won't get much rage boost and there dmg will be basically nothing.

                      Knights if built right don't have to worry about archers regardless where there block is at. There high hp and high pdef will be able to absorb most hits from archers. The only class that gives real problem to knights are mages but that's how it is suppose to be. No class should be all OP and win everything. Just bc if that were the case there be no reason to play any other class.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by supermogey View Post
                        dieing to other archers maybe, due to the high dmg output, but as i said, knights.... unlikely, a knights dmg is low, rage build up is very slow, their attacks skills are slower, there attack skills cost most of their rage, the only 2 that dont are the rage builder and the one that hits the weakest enemy. it can be a challenge for knights to get past high leveled troops before their health is knocked quite significantly down by archers.
                        so no, archers with a bit less pdef will not die to all knights. They would only die to knights who have turned themselves into mage cannon fodder.....
                        im looking at this from every angle, yes i kinda forgot about facing off against your own class, but i admitted that, but being able to spec to defeat 2 classes is better than being able to spec to beat 1.
                        awww man if you re seriously saying that archers neglecting their pdef wont die to all knights then im sorry but you really dont know what your re talking about..

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Billy_McF View Post
                          My god you really need to stop this, you are digging even deeper every time you post.

                          Rage build up is never a problem for knights. The problem is the CD on their skills. Knights and mages build rage with each attack. Archers rely on Crit to build rage.

                          Knights are the anti-christ of archers..they have the Pdef to counter our Patk, and if you can't fathom that little bit of info out I can't help you any further.
                          No offense intended, but you need to stop just replying to each comment and take this whole conversation into concideration. Again Knights can only defend against archers if they reduce themselves to nothing but cannon fodder against mages... Archers can effectively kill atleast 2 classes with one gem build, provided the knight hasnt gemmed specifically to kill an archer.
                          Knights gain rage from 1 attack, their weakest attack, so no knights do not gain rage from all attacks. they may not consume all the rage that is required for the attack due to a passive buff that does in effect give rage for each attack as you put it.... but in actual effect all it does is reduce the rage cost a fraction.

                          Also i noticed you didnt have an answer to my question, thus it was you who dug yourself a hole by becoming insulting about it....

                          I dont need any help from someone who cannot discuss the mechanics of a game without getting emotionally riled up like a pre pubescent little girl (no offense intended to girls...)

                          I had an oppinion, i voiced my oppinion just like im entitled too as are you, but to get insulting is only going to result in retaliation and remove any validicity to anything either of us are saying. I wont apologise for in turn insulting you, because to frank, you asked for it with the way you were acting, but from now on, if you wish to continue this debate, please refrain from insults and stick the full conversation, not just your own points.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by R26092269 View Post
                            awww man if you re seriously saying that archers neglecting their pdef wont die to all knights then im sorry but you really dont know what your re talking about..
                            on a one on one battle between knight and archers with no unit, yes pdef is a must for archers, but when units are in the equation, ive never seen a need for an archer to have much. My whole point on that matter is that knights take a while to get through troops, where as, archers can decimate the knights troops, then start on the knight before he has even made his way to the archer.
                            On my server, all the top people are mostly archers and mages, there are a few knights and im included in that. However, the strongest player on our server is a knight, but a heavy cash shop user as well. In saying that, people have started to catch up to him now, well the archers and mages have and thats by putting a fraction of the money into that he did.

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                            • #29
                              [QUOTE=supermogey;486619]
                              Archers can effectively kill atleast 2 classes with one gem build, provided the knight hasnt gemmed specifically to kill an archer.

                              So can knights and mages, that's what I have been trying to explain to you.

                              Take a step back, look at my earlier post where I said "I don't know what level you knight is, but if your below 55 then you are going to be at a disadvantage. Once you hit 55-65 then you will start to close the gap rather quickly, then by Lv70 you should be laughing while killing archers that are comparable to you"



                              Also i noticed you didnt have an answer to my question, thus it was you who dug yourself a hole by becoming insulting about it....

                              So which question did I not answer?

                              And try and look at what other people are saying.
                              If you build your knight to beat Archers, of course your going to get owned by mages.
                              If you build to beat mages your going to be owned by Archers.

                              But that is the same for every class.
                              Last edited by Billy_McF; 03-31-2013, 11:37 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                [QUOTE=Billy_McF;486631]
                                Originally posted by supermogey View Post
                                Archers can effectively kill atleast 2 classes with one gem build, provided the knight hasnt gemmed specifically to kill an archer.

                                So can knights and mages, that's what I have been trying to explain to you.

                                Take a step back, look at my earlier post where I said "I don't know what level you knight is, but if your below 55 then you are going to be at a disadvantage. Once you hit 55-65 then you will start to close the gap rather quickly, then by Lv70 you should be laughing while killing archers that are comparable to you"



                                Also i noticed you didnt have an answer to my question, thus it was you who dug yourself a hole by becoming insulting about it....

                                So which question did I not answer?

                                And try and look at what other people are saying.
                                If you build your knight to beat Archers, of course your going to get owned by mages.
                                If you build to beat mages your going to be owned by Archers.

                                But that is the same for every class.
                                I didnt deny that you could be right about the lvl 55 onwards thing, i even replied saying I would test that by leveling a bit more over the next week.

                                But knoghts can only effectively kill 2 classes with 2 seperate gemming situations. when i said archers could effectively kill 2 classes, i meant that they could do it without having to change gems, as in kill 2 classes with one set up which is 100% impossible to do for knights, unless built the way i am, but in the long run, my build fails against those with gear comparible ot mine, tbh, mages with same br as me can kick my *** even with my mdef gems, but thats expected, mages are susposed to beat knights, its the way its always been. lol, but their heal does annoy me a bit, but without it, then dungeons would be impossible, lol

                                As for the question i asked, well i asked it as a result of you insulting me about not being able to build my knight properly because i was saying they couldnt hit hard.
                                I asked you to tell me another way of increasing patk excluding all the ways i listed that ive already done (thus pulling as much power out of the knights attack as i could).

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