Knights block or archers crit

[supermogey]

You forgot one small thing didn't you? Archers also have to fight Archers so Pdef is needed.
And if you think that knights attacks are weak then I think you need to take a long hard look at how you have built your knight.

And as a closing comment I think you need to step back and look at what your doing!

The only reason that you have to change gems is because you don't know what the hell your doing!

lol... ok mister informed. tell me how to increase a knights patk past the point of gemming for it, increasing skill level, having the stats on gear and astrals? (ignoring guild skills because everyones differ and ive tested against people in ym guild)
so unless you have an answer to that question, dont bother reducing yourself to an infants level of debating and outright insulting me.

[supermogey]

dieing to other archers maybe, due to the high dmg output, but as i said, knights.... unlikely, a knights dmg is low, rage build up is very slow, their attacks skills are slower, there attack skills cost most of their rage, the only 2 that dont are the rage builder and the one that hits the weakest enemy. it can be a challenge for knights to get past high leveled troops before their health is knocked quite significantly down by archers.
so no, archers with a bit less pdef will not die to all knights. They would only die to knights who have turned themselves into mage cannon fodder.....
im looking at this from every angle, yes i kinda forgot about facing off against your own class, but i admitted that, but being able to spec to defeat 2 classes is better than being able to spec to beat 1.

[Billy_McF]

right, so your ignoring the fact that archers and mages do exactly what you say knights cant do (equip to fight both classes)? Im sorry but my friends play both archers and mages and i know that they stick with one gem build to fight all classes and do it a lot better than knights do.
A knight to kill a mage needs mdef, leaving him screwed for archers
A knight needs pdef to defend against archers and their crits, so in turn they become cannon fodder for mages.
Archers and Mages can effectively fight all classes without haveing to change their gems about, thus they are never left wide open solely to one class....
Or if knights do what you say and go half and half, it still leaves them severely lacking in mdef.
the only thing an archer needs to worry about are patk and mdef, patk to get through knights def and mdef to defend against mages since archers attacks will rip through mages def...
so dont tell me archers have to manage their gems just like knights... lol
I actually have a rational mind.

(oh and just incase you for some reason wonder why i didnt say archers needed to worry about pdef, is simply because knights attacks arent all that strong, so an astral is really all you need when compared to the damage you do, unless ofc the knight has went full pdef and left himself wide open to mages... so my point still stands, knights dont have it as easy when it comes to gemming.)

You forgot one small thing didn't you? Archers also have to fight Archers so Pdef is needed. Mages fight mages so Mdef is needed.
And if you think that knights attacks are weak then I think you need to take a long hard look at how you have built your knight.

But you show me what this magic gem is that archers and mages use please!

The only reason that you have to change gems is because you don't know what the hell your doing!

[R26092269]

right, so your ignoring the fact that archers and mages do exactly what you say knights cant do (equip to fight both classes)? Im sorry but my friends play both archers and mages and i know that they stick with one gem build to fight all classes and do it a lot better than knights do.
A knight to kill a mage needs mdef, leaving him screwed for archers
A knight needs pdef to defend against archers and their crits, so in turn they become cannon fodder for mages.
Archers and Mages can effectively fight all classes without haveing to change their gems about, thus they are never left wide open solely to one class....
Or if knights do what you say and go half and half, it still leaves them severely lacking in mdef.
the only thing an archer needs to worry about are patk and mdef, patk to get through knights def and mdef to defend against mages since archers attacks will rip through mages def...
so dont tell me archers have to manage their gems just like knights... lol
I actually have a rational mind.

(oh and just incase you for some reason wonder why i didnt say archers needed to worry about pdef, is simply because knights attacks arent all that strong, so an astral is really all you need when compared to the damage you do, unless ofc the knight has went full pdef and left himself wide open to mages... so my point still stands, knights dont have it as easy when it comes to gemming.)

an archer worrying only about patk and mdef will sure do well against some mages, but will die to all others archers and knights...your mind is not so rational.

[supermogey]

right, so your ignoring the fact that archers and mages do exactly what you say knights cant do (equip to fight both classes)? Im sorry but my friends play both archers and mages and i know that they stick with one gem build to fight all classes and do it a lot better than knights do.
A knight to kill a mage needs mdef, leaving him screwed for archers
A knight needs pdef to defend against archers and their crits, so in turn they become cannon fodder for mages.
Archers and Mages can effectively fight all classes without haveing to change their gems about, thus they are never left wide open solely to one class....
Or if knights do what you say and go half and half, it still leaves them severely lacking in mdef.
the only thing an archer needs to worry about are patk and mdef, patk to get through knights def and mdef to defend against mages since archers attacks will rip through mages def...
so dont tell me archers have to manage their gems just like knights... lol
I actually have a rational mind.

(oh and just incase you for some reason wonder why i didnt say archers needed to worry about pdef, is simply because knights attacks arent all that strong, so an astral is really all you need when compared to the damage you do, unless ofc the knight has went full pdef and left himself wide open to mages... so my point still stands, knights dont have it as easy when it comes to gemming.)

[Billy_McF]

Im just generalising the whole experience of a knight. Archers dont need to regem for dungeons/pvp, niether do mages.
Now the other factor, i regem to fight archers, that leaves me completely 100% at the mercy of mages... but again, mages and archers dont have this regemming dilema... so why should knights?
Im not saying a knight cant beat archers, im saying they are at a disadvantage as a class in the game.

You do realise that you have exactly the same sockets/gems available as an archer or mage don't you. It's your choice what to equip in each slot.
Most people go with a primary Atk gem in every piece of equipment, leaving 2 slot's free in each item, giving a total of 16 free slot to equip how you like. (or more if you have legendary gear)

Now archers have to equip gems to fight knights and Mages, as well as be able to get through dungeons, the same goes for mages.
For you to suggest it is harder for a knight to manage gems is complete and utter rubbish.

If you want to beat archers you have to equip Pdef gems. If you want to beat mages you have to equip Mdef gems. You can equip both and hold your own against all the other classes due to your higher Hp and Def stats from the get go.

Now if you equipped 4 mdef, 4 pdef and 4Hp gems along with 8 Patk, that should still leave you 4 slots open, you use these to bolster whichever stat you feel needs improvement, assuming you have 3 open slots in all equipment.
You can not build to combat 1 class and totally ignore the other class, then complain when you can't beat both. You have to find the balance, just as archers and mages have to do.

[supermogey]

exactly what Billy said. Obviously using only patk mdef and hp gems against magic atk opponent is a perfect build but as you were complaining about archers killing you...that build is just wrong against them period.

Check my post above yours (obviously we posted around same time... lol
As i was saying, i dont believe knights cant beat archers, i think its unfair that at any point to defeat one class or the other, it puts the knight at a major disadvantage for one class, which other class dont have to worry about.

[R26092269]

I agree with what your saying in this post apart from your not the wrong build. Look at the title of your Thread.

You are comparing a knight to an archer, not how a knight operates in dungeons or against mages.
So equipping Mdef gems is the wrong build to combat archers. You want to be killing archers, then you have to equip Pdef gems.

exactly what Billy said. Obviously using only patk mdef and hp gems against magic atk opponent is a perfect build but as you were complaining about archers killing you...that build is just wrong against them period.

[supermogey]

Im just generalising the whole experience of a knight. Archers dont need to regem for dungeons/pvp, niether do mages.
Now the other factor, i regem to fight archers, that leaves me completely 100% at the mercy of mages... but again, mages and archers dont have this regemming dilema... so why should knights?
Im not saying a knight cant beat archers, im saying they are at a disadvantage as a class in the game.

[Billy_McF]

actually, i think you will find im not. Unless you are using legendary gear you only have a total max of 3 gems per equipment piece. Knights have low patk thus they need the boost, they need hp to be a reliable tank and for the shield to work as it was intended and mdef because a knights mdef is practically non existant without gemming for it. A knight is the tank class of the game, you need to be able to ward off as much dmg as possible especially in dungeon to keep the group alive, without mdef a tank is going to get shredded in the later dungeon or have you not been through them? lol. Knights already have high pdef, especially when using the pdef gold astral, thus gemming for more would leave you severely lacking in mdef, unless you plan to nuke your dmg capability of health and essentially your tanking capability.
So no, im not built wrong, maybe not built the way you are, but not wrong... lol

I agree with what your saying in this post apart from your not the wrong build. Look at the title of your Thread.

You are comparing a knight to an archer, not how a knight operates in dungeons or against mages.
So equipping Mdef gems is the wrong build to combat archers. You want to be killing archers, then you have to equip Pdef gems.

[supermogey]

Then take a leaf out of your own book and read everything I posted.

In particular the part about closing the gap when moving from 55-65 etc. As you have just hit 55, you will start to see that gap closing rapidly as you head towards 65.

Knights are slow to build, slow to level and a pain in the butt to play at lower levels. No-one is arguing that - As some people say, the knight is the HARD difficulty level for Wartune.

Oh and you need Pdef gems to defend against Archers, so maybe add them in!

ok well maybe you are right, in the next 5 levels we will see if any difference starts appearing, but concidering its only incremental upgrades through levels without changing armour, i cant see how much is going to change, but im will to give it a week of leveling to find out. As testing is the only sure fire way of getting a reliable answer.

See above for pdef, yeah i could switch out gems specifically for battling archers, but i cant always have my gems switched out and I cant properly prepare for guild battles in that fashion.
Also try cata with a knight without mdef gems, its suicide, lol

[supermogey]

well if you dont have pdef gems then yes your build is wrong...

actually, i think you will find im not. Unless you are using legendary gear you only have a total max of 3 gems per equipment piece. Knights have low patk thus they need the boost, they need hp to be a reliable tank and for the shield to work as it was intended and mdef because a knights mdef is practically non existant without gemming for it. A knight is the tank class of the game, you need to be able to ward off as much dmg as possible especially in dungeon to keep the group alive, without mdef a tank is going to get shredded in the later dungeon or have you not been through them? lol. Knights already have high pdef, especially when using the pdef gold astral, thus gemming for more would leave you severely lacking in mdef, unless you plan to nuke your dmg capability of health and essentially your tanking capability.
So no, im not built wrong, maybe not built the way you are, but not wrong... lol

[Billy_McF]

again..... come on people READ everything i say.. not just parts..
im lvl 55, with lvl 55 full enchanted pvp gear with mostly lvl 10 stats....
i really need people to stop thinking im an undergeared low level noob who doesnt actually know what he is talking about >.<

and ill say again... ALWAYS ranked at a very bare minimum in the top 20 of arena.....

Then take a leaf out of your own book and read everything I posted.

In particular the part about closing the gap when moving from 55-65 etc. As you have just hit 55, you will start to see that gap closing rapidly as you head towards 65.

Knights are slow to build, slow to level and a pain in the butt to play at lower levels. No-one is arguing that - As some people say, the knight is the HARD difficulty level for Wartune.

Oh and you need Pdef gems to defend against Archers, so maybe add them in!

[R26092269]

im not built wrong, im using patk, mdef and hp gems,

well if you dont have pdef gems then yes your build is wrong...

[supermogey]

I would love to see those archers who crit 99% of the time in PvP or even PvE. An archer will crit 100% of the time on Multi Shot as that skill is a guaranteed crit, so even with 0 crit stat, every time they fired MS it would crit.
I am yet to see an Archer that crits 100% of the time on every hit of Lunatic which is the main AOE of an archer. So I suggest your archer friends are giving you inaccurate info.

I don't know what level you knight is, but if your below 55 then you are going to be at a disadvantage. Once you hit 55-65 then you will start to close the gap rather quickly, then by Lv70 you should be laughing while killing archers that are comparable to you.

As to jumping to conclusion, I am far from doing that. I have played the game and found knights easy to beat at lower levels. But now at Lv70, Archers are beaten easily by knights.

again..... come on people READ everything i say.. not just parts.. i already stated the 99% was obviously an over exageration on their part to get the point across...
im lvl 55, with lvl 55 full enchanted pvp gear with mostly lvl 10 stats....
i really need people to stop thinking im an undergeared low level noob who doesnt actually know what he is talking about >.<

and ill say again... ALWAYS ranked at a very bare minimum in the top 20 of arena.....