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The fundamental flaw in assuming that everyone gains if you steal from your friends.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ElusionM View Post
    Hmm, maybe you don't understand, if every player steals from someone else, 200 times, not just 5 people sharing... Then they will reach a lot more TOGETHER, than they would of reached individually?
    I provided a simple example. You can easily extend it to a (N,M) player game, with N being the number of players and M being the number of crops per player. The outcome is the same.

    The total yield of the crops remains unchanged. It depends on how you split it.
    Officially retired from Wartune and Forums.
    [No longer logging in]

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ElusionM View Post
      If everyone steals, they'll hit that 2k very, very easily. So why would you NOT steal?
      Theoretically, that 'could' be true, but how do you do it in the game? You have to check every farm, and write down the time their crops will mature.... Now you would have to stay awake all the time, cause people have different time... Now that would be stressful, plus, at the end of the month, you get the mount, but you had sacrificed your time and health... It would be better to buy ancient spirits, than to steal from others...

      That is why the best thing you can do is to minimize the chance of getting your crops stolen to get the maximum seeds possible...
      If you think you are smart, then you are at the height of your stupidity.
      -quoted from R.K.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by BlueEarth View Post
        Theoretically, that 'could' be true, but how do you do it in the game? You have to check every farm, and write down the time their crops will mature.... Now you would have to stay awake all the time, cause people have different time...
        Irrelevant, it still wouldn't increase the total number of ancient seeds available to everyone. Again, someone will have to lose, or no one gains.
        Unless you were alluding to just one person doing so, of course, but that's not the issue at debate as I understand it.

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        • #19
          Ah ok, I see now.

          In which case, I still say stealing is the right thing to do. Split the rewards around, and try and steal a majority from non guildies I guess.
          A non casher needs more than 2k, so they can get the clothing too, where a casher has little need for the clothing.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ElusionM View Post
            Ah ok, I see now.

            In which case, I still say stealing is the right thing to do. Split the rewards around, and try and steal a majority from non guildies I guess.
            A non casher needs more than 2k, so they can get the clothing too, where a casher has little need for the clothing.
            I agree in part with this - I prefer guild members have my spirits than non guild members, and I prioritize non-guild members for stealing.
            Still, not stealing from guild members is somewhat dubious, in my opinion.
            Last edited by Shadowscarred; 04-12-2013, 09:28 AM. Reason: Grammatical correction.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by ElusionM View Post
              Ah ok, I see now.

              In which case, I still say stealing is the right thing to do. Split the rewards around, and try and steal a majority from non guildies I guess.
              A non casher needs more than 2k, so they can get the clothing too, where a casher has little need for the clothing.
              Yes, so long as you understand that the total number of seeds available cannot be increased. That is a fallacy which I'm trying to correct.

              Now, if your strategy is to maximize your own gain while minimizing your "enemy"'s, then by all means, steal.
              Officially retired from Wartune and Forums.
              [No longer logging in]

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              • #22
                I have seen quite a few posts on this type of subject. Stealing = bad. Stealing = good, Stealing is selfish, and so forth.

                There is a loss associated to someone taking your crops. They cannot take all of your crops. They get a portion and your portion from the original is reduced. The math by the OP seems sound. There is another aspect that is missing from the intent. Farms grow because others tend them. Your crops grow because freinds weed, de-worm, and revive. Your tree gains power because your friends energize them.

                If you don't allow me a portion of your crops, I will not tend your farm. You are asking for a something for nothing partnership, where you reap the rewards of my tending, yet sharing of the resources is not given. To me, that seems more hypocritical than worrying about how much I am going to lose from a seed.

                If I plant a crop, and it is tended, I will get something. There will never be a zero return if someone helps me tend my farm. If I plant a crop and I have no one to tend it, then I will get zero return, because I will need a friend to revive my crop at some point. No one revives, no new crops, no new returns.

                My vote will always be a diminished return over no return.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Greyankh View Post
                  I have seen quite a few posts on this type of subject. Stealing = bad. Stealing = good, Stealing is selfish, and so forth.

                  There is a loss associated to someone taking your crops. They cannot take all of your crops. They get a portion and your portion from the original is reduced. The math by the OP seems sound. There is another aspect that is missing from the intent. Farms grow because others tend them. Your crops grow because freinds weed, de-worm, and revive. Your tree gains power because your friends energize them.

                  If you don't allow me a portion of your crops, I will not tend your farm. You are asking for a something for nothing partnership, where you reap the rewards of my tending, yet sharing of the resources is not given. To me, that seems more hypocritical than worrying about how much I am going to lose from a seed.

                  If I plant a crop, and it is tended, I will get something. There will never be a zero return if someone helps me tend my farm. If I plant a crop and I have no one to tend it, then I will get zero return, because I will need a friend to revive my crop at some point. No one revives, no new crops, no new returns.

                  My vote will always be a diminished return over no return.
                  Please post this on every crop related discussion you find!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ElusionM View Post
                    Hmm, maybe you don't understand, if every player steals from someone else, 200 times, not just 5 people sharing... Then they will reach a lot more TOGETHER, than they would of reached individually?
                    What about the people you stole from??? I'm pretty certain they were planning on getting that crop you so greedily stole!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Greyankh View Post
                      I have seen quite a few posts on this type of subject. Stealing = bad. Stealing = good, Stealing is selfish, and so forth.

                      There is a loss associated to someone taking your crops. They cannot take all of your crops. They get a portion and your portion from the original is reduced. The math by the OP seems sound. There is another aspect that is missing from the intent. Farms grow because others tend them. Your crops grow because freinds weed, de-worm, and revive. Your tree gains power because your friends energize them.

                      If you don't allow me a portion of your crops, I will not tend your farm. You are asking for a something for nothing partnership, where you reap the rewards of my tending, yet sharing of the resources is not given. To me, that seems more hypocritical than worrying about how much I am going to lose from a seed.

                      If I plant a crop, and it is tended, I will get something. There will never be a zero return if someone helps me tend my farm. If I plant a crop and I have no one to tend it, then I will get zero return, because I will need a friend to revive my crop at some point. No one revives, no new crops, no new returns.

                      My vote will always be a diminished return over no return.
                      True, people ARE tending your farm, but you're tending their farm as well. To me the payment is me taking care of their farm while they take care of mine. In other words - you weed, I weed!

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                      • #26
                        I don't mind people taking my crops. I feel it works for the community. I ask them to tend my fields, and if they are ready to be sowed, then have at it.
                        The game allows a percentage to be lost to "theft" but that percentage is less than what I will get because the crop is mine. I will always get the greatest amount of product from my farm.

                        According to other posters, there is a cap to how much you may acquire from other farms and it is less than the amount you can acquire from your own farms, so I choose to not let it bother me. I will get something from the crop. The how much is irrelevant because I will get something. When I log in in the morning, I get the message my crops are ready to harvest. I get excited because they are ready and I am going to get something. I don't know how much others got, nor do I care. I am about to get something for planting them.

                        Games will always reward activity over inactivity. Games will always reward paying over non-paying. Knowing these things from the start allows me to not get upset over others progressing faster than I. This is a game, a computer generated virtual environment designed to entertain. If I need an explanation as to why I did not get a full yield, then perhaps it was weather, or a drought, or animals. Again, irrelevant because I will get something for planting.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Greyankh View Post
                          I don't mind people taking my crops. I feel it works for the community. I ask them to tend my fields, and if they are ready to be sowed, then have at it.
                          The game allows a percentage to be lost to "theft" but that percentage is less than what I will get because the crop is mine. I will always get the greatest amount of product from my farm.

                          According to other posters, there is a cap to how much you may acquire from other farms and it is less than the amount you can acquire from your own farms, so I choose to not let it bother me. I will get something from the crop. The how much is irrelevant because I will get something. When I log in in the morning, I get the message my crops are ready to harvest. I get excited because they are ready and I am going to get something. I don't know how much others got, nor do I care. I am about to get something for planting them.

                          Games will always reward activity over inactivity. Games will always reward paying over non-paying. Knowing these things from the start allows me to not get upset over others progressing faster than I. This is a game, a computer generated virtual environment designed to entertain. If I need an explanation as to why I did not get a full yield, then perhaps it was weather, or a drought, or animals. Again, irrelevant because I will get something for planting.
                          I loved your two posts, I feel they expressed the issue well, and in words I wouldn't have managed.
                          The idea that a person "greedily steals" the crops is two-sided. For example, hoarding the wealth of your crop yield could be considered greedy, couldn't it? Communal farmers will often share a small portion of their harvest with one another, and the one that keeps it all to himself is looked at with disdain.

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                          • #28
                            Thanks.

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                            • #29
                              theres no gain in stealing.. actually its a loss.. thieves get a seed for stealing while you loss 2 in harvest.. so basically its 1 minus 2 situatuon.. now, if guild members steal from you its a NO NO.. but! if other guilds steal from you its a NO NO NO (worse).. hmmmm imo as much as possible dont steal from guildies. and as much as possible, steal from other guild xD

                              example : lvl 6 farm gains 15/crop > gets stolen 1 ; harvested 13.. 1 + 13 is 14.. and the missing seed goes to...... *drumroll* R2 xD

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                              • #30
                                Alright, percentages weren't considered.
                                Regarding ancient spirits, you may lose more than you should.
                                Still, if everyone's stealing, then they're stealing the broken percentages, so you should still get most of what you "deserve", which should be 70% (About 10).
                                Actually, it's only 9. Getting 10 is optimistic.

                                Are you sure it was only stolen from once?

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