The fundamental flaw in assuming that everyone gains if you steal from your friends.

[ecla2]

Good first post. Generally the people who benefit from the crop steal system are those who are online more and/or who intentionally camp farms.

For this Ancient Spirits event, stealing only hurts the free players, since the spenders just buy the seeds ... heck, they probably already have the mounts by now!

[Shadowscarred]

Good first post. Generally the people who benefit from the crop steal system are those who are online more and/or who intentionally camp farms.

For this Ancient Spirits event, stealing only hurts the free players, since the spenders just buy the seeds ... heck, they probably already have the mounts by now!

Someone in my old guild had it yesterday. It looks ridiculous - I still wonder why people would ride to battle atop a giant chicken.

[WickedSilk]

@Greyankh - great posts. My hope in humanity is restored.

@ShiKKihS - I must admit, I didn't consider that. You have an interesting point, if it's true.

@others - This thread is actually readable, and a good discussion. You have no idea how much I enjoy this. Thank you.

And a bit of my own contribution:

This morning I found out that people who have the most have already amassed over 1k spirits. This doesn't bother me, as I have almost 400 and I couldn't even solve a few quests (but I timed my crops well so I got most of them). Even if I don't get enough for the mount, I'll have some clothing in the end, which is kinda nice for a non casher. Again, +20 to all stats isn't something I'd break friendships over.

[Shadowscarred]

I'm aiming for 700, which I think is the cost for the new helmet clothing. Anything left over goes to fashion cores or good luck charms or something.
Yeah, I'm not wearing a bikini.

[infernal13]

The funny thing is, it isn't even a zero-sum game, A, B and C got exactly what they would have got if they didn't steal from no one and no one stole from them, which is 14 seeds, while D and specially E got hurt in the process, the net gain for the group as a whole should have been 14x5=70 if no one stole from the other, instead it got reduced to 65 and 5 seeds lost that no one at all benefited from.

Please don't try to argue any "positive" side for stealing cause there is none.

[weirdjohn]

9 farm plots x 14 ancient spirits x 25 days = 3150 ancient spirits. Mount only costs 2000,,,so why not let guildies steal them so they can get mount to if they don't have 9 plots yet? Also btw first post did not take into consideration of higher lvl farms. he is calculating for 13 ancient spirits per seed, my farm produces 14, and I have seen higher lvl farms than mine. There are a number of variables that have not been considered in the calculation. Farm lvl only being one of them.

[KnowingEyes7]

9 farm plots x 14 ancient spirits x 25 days = 3150 ancient spirits. Mount only costs 2000,,,so why not let guildies steal them so they can get mount to if they don't have 9 plots yet? Also btw first post did not take into consideration of higher lvl farms. he is calculating for 13 ancient spirits per seed, my farm produces 14, and I have seen higher lvl farms than mine. There are a number of variables that have not been considered in the calculation. Farm lvl only being one of them.

There's simply not enough seeds for 25 days' worth.

[Xhiah]

Is this thread for the people who do not pay to steal for their own personal gain?
Well they will just delete you so no more for you

[CondorHero]

Is this thread for the people who do not pay to steal for their own personal gain?
Well they will just delete you so no more for you

This thread is in response to an earlier thread (which I forgot the title), where the OP makes this claim
"If everyone steals, everyone benefits.", which is false.

Edit: This is the post
http://forum.r2games.com/showthread....-ancient-seeds

[Ykseir]

Did u all realize that when u steal someone plant u got less than the plant reduced value.

15k gold 1st stolen 1.5k << 10%, the owner lose 10% (1.5k)
2nd stolen 1.35k << 10%, but the owner lose more than 10% (1.5)
3rd stolen 1.2k << 8%, but the owner still lose 1.5k

and it's happening also with ANCIENT SPIRIT!!
my farm is lv7, i should get 15 if no one steal
when it's stolen once, i still get 14 << nothing lose
but when it's stolen twice, i only got 12 while the stealer i believe only got 1 << where the heck is the other 1????

so you better not steal or SHARE if you prefer dont want to be accussed of thief lol

[Shadowscarred]

Mathematics.
10% of 15 is 1.5, but you can't steal half a spirit.
The "other one" went to the first thief, who stole 1.5 ancient spirits.
Basic math: 1.5 + 1.5 = 3, 15 - 3 = 12.
This is a zero-sum game, because regardless of how the "game" is approached, and once percentages are considered, the total sum of ancient spirits, or crop yield, or whatever, is equal to the initial sum of whatever.
The original example started with 13 ancient spirits per plant, per player. The end result is that the first three players gain 1 spirit each, while the fifth player loses 3.
Since, generally, you're not supposed to get 14 ancient spirits unless you've been upgrading your farm.
I suppose your mistake was assuming that they were supposed to get 14 spirits each, rather than 13.

[laba-laba]

What farm level you need to be before it stops being zero-sum? Because that's what getting better means in games.
When you're at the top on whatever area, there is nowhere else to go but down. All the work/play we do over time is slow it down.
Everybody never gains anything in the first place, everybody averages out the maximum potential, just at different pace.
Not stealing will make us go down out of our maximum faster.

[CondorHero]

What farm level you need to be before it stops being zero-sum? Because that's what getting better means in games.
When you're at the top on whatever area, there is nowhere else to go but down. All the work/play we do over time is slow it down.
Everybody never gains anything in the first place, everybody averages out the maximum potential, just at different pace.
Not stealing will make us go down out of our maximum faster.

At best, it's zero-sum.
The actual sum-yield of crops will be less than or equal to the sum-total if they are not stolen.
You can't do better.

[kurgan2001]

You people are arguing over a 'virtual' plant. Note the word - VIRTUAL as in IT AIN'T REAL. If you blacklist peeps from taking a share, well, good luck finding peeps to energize your tree. psss .. your pettiness is showing.

[CondorHero]

You people are arguing over a 'virtual' plant. Note the word - VIRTUAL as in IT AIN'T REAL. If you blacklist peeps from taking a share, well, good luck finding peeps to energize your tree. psss .. your pettiness is showing.

Nah, you're missing the point.

We're having an academic debate. The whole point of my thread is to correct the false claim that "if everyone steals, every benefits".
If you have no interest in an academic understanding, that's fine.