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The fundamental flaw in assuming that everyone gains if you steal from your friends.

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  • #61
    Originally posted by kurgan2001 View Post
    umm .. what part of 'you still gain from what you plant' do YOU not get? and do you not know what 'Friendliness' is? If you share .. yes SHARE your crop and they share theirs, they are more likely to tend and energize and, oh look, friendliness INCREASES and look at that, BONUSES FOR INCREASED FRIENDLINESS as well as INCREASED FARM LVL

    you sir, are also a d-bag for not sharing .. you say stealing .. I say sharing .. because sharing is caring and that's how the game is set up.

    Boy are you in the wrong game! There's absolutely nothing in WARtunes that has anything to do with sharing!!!! You might band with others to accomplish a goal, but in truth you are on your own! Even in the guilds - who gets the mount for being the #1 guild - the GM - NOT the members. WAR - that's the key part of the title! WAR does not equal sharing!!!!

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    • #62
      Originally posted by R24907107 View Post
      Boy are you in the wrong game! There's absolutely nothing in WARtunes that has anything to do with sharing!!!! You might band with others to accomplish a goal, but in truth you are on your own! Even in the guilds - who gets the mount for being the #1 guild - the GM - NOT the members. WAR - that's the key part of the title! WAR does not equal sharing!!!!
      then why have the friends if they can't share in your crop? just delete everyone and play on your own if you're so concerned about your precious 'virtual' seeds .... d-bag.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by R24907107 View Post
        Boy are you in the wrong game! There's absolutely nothing in WARtunes that has anything to do with sharing!!!! You might band with others to accomplish a goal, but in truth you are on your own! Even in the guilds - who gets the mount for being the #1 guild - the GM - NOT the members. WAR - that's the key part of the title! WAR does not equal sharing!!!!
        Also, if you feel that way then don't be in a guild at all. I mean if that's your final opinion on the matter. Oh, what's that .... oh that's right .. there's guild skills that pump your stats ... you may wanna rethink your argument there skippy.

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        • #64
          upgrade you farms whit vouchers and you can stile hit 2k even if players steal som from you my farms is lvl 8 could be 9 if dint wast alot on inventory,wb and rest skils a few times becuse i make som mistakes.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by TimlaVmun View Post
            THANK YOU.

            It is annoying to see people say you gain more when you share. They speak without thinking. It is not correct at all.

            That is why I am confused as to why you can only steal your friend's crops. That makes no sense. You cannot plunder your guildmates, so why can you ONLY steal from your friends?
            I think you just answered your own question, I'd plunder guildies if I can just ask coords and no need to scout around.
            But plundering uses more valuable resources like HP and troops, so they make it so everyone can steal in farms.
            It's just players' mentality and basic economics, I agree game mechanic missing one condition to "punish" stealers
            or maybe disable it temporarily when we're online in the farms.

            Stealing is what makes the world turns. Sun must set for the moon to go up, sleep is more precious than ancient seeds
            [morfinnor]
            Temple of Ibalize

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            • #66
              Let me spell this out for you who think stealing is wrong and doesn't pay off if done in balance. Let's do the math for 1 day and 20 friends ok.

              If you don't spend balens, and let's say you actually plant very 12 hours, you get to plant in 24 hours 10 plants. Now, let's just say you get 14 per plant, that equals 140 ancient spirit for you for the day. Now, limit your friends to 20, and you all agree to plant at the same time. You all agree to harvest from each other and you all max out at 200 "stolen". Thus you get 100 from your crops + 200 from theirs and your net daily amount is 300. No one gets more than anyone else.

              You would have your precious ride in a matter of less than a week, and so would your 20 friends!

              Here is the obvious rub. No one is limiting their friends to 20. Your guildies need help reviving etc.. Not many are as detail oriented as some of us who actually make spread sheets for whose plants are ready and when. So, they feel cheated and want to stand on some high ground of "I don't steal so don't steal mine" attitude. As it is, I am over half way and had I not been screwed out of playing last night I would have even more. Steal all you want from me, because I will get my 300 today.
              Last edited by Unified_Serenity; 04-14-2013, 07:47 AM.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Unified_Serenity View Post
                Let me spell this out for you who think stealing is wrong and doesn't pay off if done in balance. Let's do the math for 1 day and 20 friends ok.

                If you don't spend balens, and let's say you actually plant very 12 hours, you get to plant in 24 hours 10 plants. Now, let's just say you get 14 per plant, that equals 140 ancient spirit for you for the day. Now, limit your friends to 20, and you all agree to plant at the same time. You all agree to harvest from each other and you all max out at 200 "stolen". Thus you get 100 from your crops + 200 from theirs and your net daily amount is 300. No one gets more than anyone else.

                You would have your precious ride in a matter of less than a week, and so would your 20 friends!

                Here is the obvious rub. No one is limiting their friends to 20. Your guildies need help reviving etc.. Not many are as detail oriented as some of us who actually make spread sheets for whose plants are ready and when. So, they feel cheated and want to stand on some high ground of "I don't steal so don't steal mine" attitude. As it is, I am over half way and had I not been screwed out of playing last night I would have even more. Steal all you want from me, because I will get my 300 today.
                So we get 300 each day!?
                Nope. It does not pay off in the long run dude. You are only focused on what you can collect, not others...
                Game: Wartune
                Server: 2 Edena Village
                Class: Mage
                Name: Mary Magdalene
                Following the guide from Ginger and Creamy ^_^

                Best troll ever ^_^



                I'm Probably in the sky,
                Flying with the fishes,
                Or maybe in the Ocean,
                swimming with the pigeons,
                See my world is Different.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Unified_Serenity View Post
                  Let me spell this out for you who think stealing is wrong and doesn't pay off if done in balance. Let's do the math for 1 day and 20 friends ok.

                  If you don't spend balens, and let's say you actually plant very 12 hours, you get to plant in 24 hours 10 plants. Now, let's just say you get 14 per plant, that equals 140 ancient spirit for you for the day. Now, limit your friends to 20, and you all agree to plant at the same time. You all agree to harvest from each other and you all max out at 200 "stolen". Thus you get 100 from your crops + 200 from theirs and your net daily amount is 300. No one gets more than anyone else.

                  You would have your precious ride in a matter of less than a week, and so would your 20 friends!

                  Here is the obvious rub. No one is limiting their friends to 20. Your guildies need help reviving etc.. Not many are as detail oriented as some of us who actually make spread sheets for whose plants are ready and when. So, they feel cheated and want to stand on some high ground of "I don't steal so don't steal mine" attitude. As it is, I am over half way and had I not been screwed out of playing last night I would have even more. Steal all you want from me, because I will get my 300 today.
                  There's a problem with your figures. You are saying everyone of the 21 people can get 200 by stealing. The thing is after your plant has been stolen from 4 times no one else can steal from it. So, somewhere some people are getting screwed here!

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Unified_Serenity View Post
                    Let me spell this out for you who think stealing is wrong and doesn't pay off if done in balance. Let's do the math for 1 day and 20 friends ok.

                    If you don't spend balens, and let's say you actually plant very 12 hours, you get to plant in 24 hours 10 plants. Now, let's just say you get 14 per plant, that equals 140 ancient spirit for you for the day. Now, limit your friends to 20, and you all agree to plant at the same time. You all agree to harvest from each other and you all max out at 200 "stolen". Thus you get 100 from your crops + 200 from theirs and your net daily amount is 300. No one gets more than anyone else.

                    You would have your precious ride in a matter of less than a week, and so would your 20 friends!
                    Your math is wrong.
                    Do you want me to point it out to you, or do you want to spend a bit more time thinking about it?
                    Officially retired from Wartune and Forums.
                    [No longer logging in]

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by R24907107 View Post
                      There's a problem with your figures. You are saying everyone of the 21 people can get 200 by stealing. The thing is after your plant has been stolen from 4 times no one else can steal from it. So, somewhere some people are getting screwed here!
                      Thanks for pointing it out.
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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Xhiah View Post
                        So we get 300 each day!?
                        Nope. It does not pay off in the long run dude. You are only focused on what you can collect, not others...
                        Correct. Thanks for pointing it out.
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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by CondorHero View Post
                          Your math is wrong.
                          Do you want me to point it out to you, or do you want to spend a bit more time thinking about it?
                          Ok, let's take it out to max friends of 200. You can all only take 200 even if you have opportunity for more. So, if all your friends let each other steal, and you all max out, then there is more than enough to go around. But again, you don't want to do it, you want others to not do it, and therefore the rub in the game. Solution, delete friends. Don't steal and take weeks longer to reach your maximum in the game. good luck.

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                          • #73
                            Okay, so let's say the default crops for everyone is 14x10. 200 people, 200 steals. Let's say that you have to steal 1 seed from everyone. That means that everyone has to steal 1 seed from you, too. You have 140 seeds.

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                            • #74
                              Draw a diagram. Somewhere, somehow, it's wrong.
                              Perhaps it's because only three people can take from a farm. Perhaps it's the apparently validity of the math.
                              Let's see..

                              21 people, all friends with each other, and I'll assume that 10 crops are planted at a time, instead of 9.

                              Player 1 steals 10 from every player once.
                              Player 2 steals 10 from every player once.
                              Player 3 steals 10 from every player once.
                              Player 4 steals 10 from the first three players once.
                              The other 17 players can't steal, since everyone has been stolen from 3 times.

                              So, the first three players get +170 each day (+200, -30), the fourth breaks even (+30, -30), but the other 17 players lose 30.
                              510 (170*3) + 0 + -510 (17*-30) = 0.

                              So far, nothing was gained. Maybe things will look different after 12 hours.

                              The same 21 players plant another 10 plants.
                              Players 1, 2 & 3 cannot steal.
                              Player 4 steals 10 from 17 players once. (1-18, excluding 4 - Player 4 already stole three times 12 hours before)
                              Player 5 steals 10 from every player once.
                              Player 6 steals 10 from every player once.
                              Player 7 steals 10 from players 4, 19, 20 & 21 once. (The others were already stolen from 3 times)
                              The other 14 players can't steal.

                              The total number gained/lost:
                              Player 4: +140
                              Player 5: +170
                              Player 6: +170
                              Player 7: + 30
                              Players 1-3 & 8-21 also lost 30.
                              170+170+140+30-(17*30)= 0.
                              Again, it breaks even.

                              The grand total: 6*200 + 60 - (60*21) = 0.

                              It's zero-sum, however you look at it.Those 17 are losing out, and even player 7 gets nothing extra (seem familiar? The same pattern as in the original diagram).
                              Even if you alternate, and let players seven, eight and nine harvest 200 times the next time, the eventual outcome is the same as if you stole nothing.
                              Similarly, stealing only a portion leads to the same outcome.
                              The conclusion? The entire process involves distribution. Nothing is gained, or lost (technically), and in the end there is just as much as you started with, but in different places.
                              What nobody considers is that the other 17 players can't steal. If they can't steal, they don't gain. If they don't gain, they're not getting that mount any faster.

                              As for those "missing" spirits, the thief takes a fraction of a spirit (0.5 if the plant yields 15), so the other thefts complete the fraction.
                              The farm owner loses nothing more than he should, though the thieves each hold only a fraction of a spirit each (above whatever they took), which is where the missing seed goes:
                              15 = 100%
                              1.5 = 10%
                              100%-10% = 15-1.5 = 13.5
                              Player gets 14, thief gets 1.

                              13.5 = 90%
                              1.5 = 10%
                              90%-10% = 13.5-1.5 = 12
                              Player gets 12, thief gets 1.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Unified_Serenity View Post
                                Ok, let's take it out to max friends of 200. You can all only take 200 even if you have opportunity for more. So, if all your friends let each other steal, and you all max out, then there is more than enough to go around. But again, you don't want to do it, you want others to not do it, and therefore the rub in the game. Solution, delete friends. Don't steal and take weeks longer to reach your maximum in the game. good luck.
                                Nothing to do with deleting friends.

                                Your claim that "everyone benefits if everyone steals" is wrong. So is your example.
                                It has been pointed out by 2 others that your example focused on yourself, but not others.

                                Work it out again considering every player's perspective. You will see where a mistake was made in the computation.
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