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Spire Suggestion

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  • Spire Suggestion

    I am certain that most players are familiar with the issue that once they have completed their spire run for the day, they can not do anymore attempts. This means that in a guild of people players become unable to help their guild-mates, and often times people are not able to find a party to complete their run.


    As such I offer the following proposition:

    Allow a certain number of Spire 'attempts' that players can undertake. Such as 2 attempts a day. Limiting the number of attempts would ensure that no one player is able to lead in multiple groups, but would at the same time allow people to lend aid to their guild-mates. Please note that I am NOT proposing to make the number of runs unlimited.

    A player would ONLY get rewards for the first attempt, and then the other would be a available to help their guild-mates to gather a team. Similair to how tanks works currently, where the first attempt gains rewards but you can join a second time to help a team.
    eVel Queen

  • #2
    I don't believe this should be aloud unless the player is in a 5-10 level range of the players which are doing spire.

    For example, there are 3 players all not finished their spire run with levels of 50, 57, 47. The player with the lowest level should be the cap so anyone 46-57 without an attempt may help them.
    Wartune
    (S251) Level 48.
    Guild = Sanctuary.

    Tank Trials guide:

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Grazeh View Post
      I don't believe this should be aloud unless the player is in a 5-10 level range of the players which are doing spire.

      For example, there are 3 players all not finished their spire run with levels of 50, 57, 47. The player with the lowest level should be the cap so anyone 46-57 without an attempt may help them.
      Actually, as the game currently exists there are no measures of stopping people from teaming up with whatever levels of their choice.

      Right now a Level 75 could drag a team of 46's into the spire, and help them get to higher levels. While this scenario is not likely, the potential for this already exists in the game.

      My suggestion is not offering people a way to further abuse the system (since the potential is already present and as such this creates nothing new) but what it is offering is the opportunity for those within a guild to lend assistance to their team. People who have not been able to find a group due to everyone having completed the event already, people who are on different time zones and need a team, people who would normally leave the spire undone simply due to lack of players being able to join them.
      Last edited by Dontella; 07-18-2013, 09:08 PM.
      eVel Queen

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Dontella View Post
        Actually, as the game currently exists there are no measures of stopping people from teaming up with whatever levels of their choice.

        Right now a Level 75 could drag a team of 46's into the spire, and help them get to higher levels. While this scenario is not likely, the potential for this already exists in the game.
        Yes these features already exist via MPD but I do not believe they should do the same for spire and neither do I believe many players would like this it could lead to several bad things. You say they could but I'm yet to see anyone 65+ drag 46s into the spire.
        Wartune
        (S251) Level 48.
        Guild = Sanctuary.

        Tank Trials guide:

        Comment


        • #5
          The difference between the suggestion and MPD:

          MPD you can do as many times as you like. This is proposal of a limited number of attempts.

          You say it can lead to "bad things," could you list what you believe those to be?


          And simply because you have not personally seen something, does not mean it does not exist. It is only improbable, but it is not impossible.
          Last edited by Dontella; 07-18-2013, 09:24 PM.
          eVel Queen

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Dontella View Post
            The difference between the suggestion and MPD:

            MPD you can do as many times as you like. This is proposal of a limited number of attempts.

            You say it can lead to "bad things," could you list what you believe those to be?
            Rule breaking things.

            I'm not going to be specific but I will tell you this there is a reason why player only get 1 attempt a day and until a better suggestion comes accross I seriously don't think they will ever change this.
            Wartune
            (S251) Level 48.
            Guild = Sanctuary.

            Tank Trials guide:

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Grazeh View Post
              Rule breaking things.

              I'm not going to be specific but I will tell you this there is a reason why player only get 1 attempt a day and until a better suggestion comes accross I seriously don't think they will ever change this.
              I'm sorry but without something some specific I can not view this as a counter point. If there was an issue with situations breaking rules, than a number of things with multiple attempts would have the potential for the same thing.

              "Rule breaking things." Is a very vague reply and without further information, which you are failing to provide, I can not be view it as a valid argument.

              Given how I do not see "R2 Moderator" listed under your profile I am going to take this to mean you think there might be an issue but you don't know for certain.
              eVel Queen

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dontella View Post
                I'm sorry but without something some specific I can not view this as a counter point. If there was an issue with situations breaking rules, than a number of things with multiple attempts would have the potential for the same thing.

                "Rule breaking things." Is a very vague reply and without further information, which you are failing to provide, I can not be view it as a valid argument.

                Given how I do not see "R2 Moderator" listed under your profile I am going to take this to mean you think there might be an issue but you don't know for certain.
                I don't need to be a R2 Moderator to voice my opinion, think about it what could a level 70 do with hundreds of people asking for help in spire? I'm being vague I feel that unless the suggestion has a cap on certain levels this wont be considered and players wont approve.

                Anyhow last post for me, that's my opinion.

                Arguement is basically invalid now as I noticed you ment guild members only.
                Last edited by Grazeh; 07-18-2013, 09:41 PM.
                Wartune
                (S251) Level 48.
                Guild = Sanctuary.

                Tank Trials guide:

                Comment


                • #9
                  When you said it was "Rule Breaking" you were not simply voicing an opinion, you were making a statement of policy.


                  A level 70 with 2 attempts at spire can not help hundreds of people. He can at most, aid 6 people.

                  As it stands now he can already aid 3 people.

                  So AGAIN the potential for abuse that you believe exists, is already in place. There is no current cap in place. There is NOTHING stopping this from happening now. As such, because this is already inherent in the game, I fail to see how it's going to become a large issue if a person is permitted to do 2 runs instead of 1. (With only gaining rewards for 1)
                  eVel Queen

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Coming in after the mini-debate above, I'd like to address some points raised in it before adding my own thoughts.

                    Grazeh, you really would have benefitted from a thorough reading of Dontella's proposal before making vague or inaccurate rebuttals. She did specify using the Tanks model of allowing 2 attempts but only rewarding one. Had she not done so, you would have been right - unlimited Spires would allow "Spire tourism" with high-powered "tour guides." You also fail to realize that nowhere in the game is an "upper level limit" imposed on any cooperative event to keep players above a certain level from helping, and I doubt they would code it in just for this. It's a nice idea, and one which could be useful in several other cooperative events...I just don't see it ever being implemented.

                    Dontella, I like your proposal. You seem to have anticipated the potential abuses of increasing Spire runs, and accounted for them (to the degree that they can be, as you acknowledge the existing potential for high-level hand-holders) with the 2-run limit that only rewards once. However, the second run takes what is currently a rare situation (a high-powered player sacrificing a run to help weaker players get further) and would dramatically increase its prevalence. I can foresee a cascading scheme where Players A, B, and C (high-powered) help players D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K, and L (lower-powered) get better rewards on the latter players' reward run. These players then go on to help 3 more players each (lower-powered than themselves) on THOSE players' reward runs...and so on and so forth. Does the potential for abuse already exist? Yes. Could this greatly increase the likelihood of abuse? Yes, as well.

                    All that being said, I have similar sentiments to Dontella. I frequently find myself wishing I could help out a guildie in need of a Spire run, but I've either 1) done mine with my group already or 2) don't want to "lose" Spire chests by running with weaker players...also, it would leave my group trying to find a 4th and that's not fair to my group.
                    Last edited by bshallc2010; 07-19-2013, 01:06 AM.

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                    • #11
                      i find Dontella option is a good one.

                      if it's possible to help people in MP and tank, why not in spire ?
                      about the abuse trouble, remember that even if you can help, most powerfull people generally try to create a group in spire to go deeper. so you will only be able to help after your group have done spire
                      i doubt many people will do spire after spire as
                      - spire take more time than one MP (if you go deep enough)
                      - going deep need strategy. it's sometimes really annoying when the whole group don't do the same. some will probably stop helping really fast

                      still, i really hope it's possible to help people in spire.
                      it's heart breaking when you see someone asking for spire after WB2...
                      RETIRED. Too much bugs, too time consuming, too few listening from Wartune
                      Wartune : NonoBoulot : S181 : Archer

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                      • #12
                        I have to agree, being how I've had to spire solo as everybody was done
                        Death comes when you hear the Banshee.....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If people can help others with so many things, why would some people consider buying balens?

                          I understand the ideas above posters came up with can solve some of the abuse, but I still don't see this happening.
                          The Last Remnant OSTs Go!!!

                          {OuO**

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DeathRiver View Post
                            I understand the ideas above posters came up with can solve some of the abuse, but I still don't see this happening.
                            Of course you don't...but as they say "Nothing ventured, nothing gained." Or there's also "If you never ask, then you'll never know."

                            Besides, I don't see how the Spire drives balens sales (I mean, who really buys extra runes in the Spire shop?). Yes, being stronger gets you further in Spire. Wanting to be stronger faster drives balens sales. But that holds true for anything in this game. Getting further in Spire is then a consequence of buying balens, not the driving force behind buying balens in the first place. Wanting "this mount" or "that gear" or "yonder gem or item" (the near-term goals) drives balens sales.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You do understand that there are many people who lack patience, right? Limiting their growth a bit and they'll swing their ultimate weapon in the gaming world, money.
                              The Last Remnant OSTs Go!!!

                              {OuO**

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