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Does more points in crit=more damage, or is crit damage fixed at a percentage?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by FarrelBrown View Post
    Higher BR or higher level? I can see the higher level factor but higher BR just doesn't make sense to me. Well......there's a lot of things in this game that don't make sense to me I guess....lol
    hes right.. and wrong,, crit is not universal, but its not the br, or level that effects it.. its the amount of crit you have.. confused yet?

    welcome my friends.. to the world of diminishing results
    i mentioned this earlier, but it seems an explanation is in order, however, i dont fully understand the concept myself, ill try my best to explain it to you.

    diminishing results means the more of something you have, the more you loose in return, now this isnt to say having less crit is better than having more, infact the opposite.
    what im trying to say is, the more you have, the less the chance of crit increases.

    example:
    if you have 2k crit you have a 50% chance of doing a critical hit. so common sense and logic says - having 4k will give you 100% and 5k will give 120% crit rate... right?

    however, this is where the magic happens, because your crit rate increases, the chance of having a critical hit decreases with the increase..... confusing i know..

    2k crit gives a 50% chance,
    4k crit gives a 80% chance,
    5k gives a 85% chance,
    6k gives a 90% chance,
    8k gives a 95% chance,
    10k gives a 97.5% chance
    20k a 99% chance,
    100k a 99.9% chance

    please bear in mind these numbers are not accurate, this is an example.. your taking maths lessons from a guy who needs to take his socks off to count past 10. dont use this as a guide, its an example that uses simple numbers to give an idea of what im trying to say.

    with this said. having more crit is better than having less, but having too much is a bad thing in the long run.
    if we use the above figures as a base,
    having 5k crit means you have 85% chance to score a critical hit, but having having 6k crit (90%) means your only getting an extra 5% chance to score a crit. over the 5k.

    the first 1k crit you have yields a return of close to 30%, the second 1k yields a return of 20% ( this gives you 2k crit = 50%) where as the later 1k yields a return of only 5%

    so, for anyone who cares, or has time, or understands the idea of diminishing returns, they could, in theory work out the perfect amount of crit, to give the best returns.
    ive seen people mention 4k gives 100%, but 100% is impossible. you cannot get 100% crit. only close to it.. and the more crit you have, the more you have to get to get closer.

    in my guesstimates.. 4-5k would be the perfect amount to yield the best results... having too much of something isnt always a good thing.. especially where diminishing results comes into play.

    if anyone cares for a better example, from someone who actually knows what they are talking about.. wiki it.. what im talking about is what my high school teacher tried to teach me 8 years ago when i wasnt paying much attention....

    thanks for your time.

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    • #17
      @Skribz: That was actually a very good "Barney Style" description of diminishing returns (I'm well versed in the concept from World of Warcraft).

      Level difference also creates a passive buff/debuff depending on which end of the difference you are on which is why I asked whether Sin meant level.

      Obviously the more crit rating you have the higher your BR will be but overall if you have 70k with 0 crit then add in 3k crit that shouldn't have a different effect against an equal level target than it would if you are 50k BR with 0 crit adding 3k crit.

      Bottom line is that after that "magic" number amount of crit it is no longer worth the cost of increasing your crit since the return from your investment becomes MUCH less and you are better off investing elsewhere.

      On a side note THIS is the kind of thing these forums were made for. It's very refreshing to see some actual, intelligent discussions.
      Patryn
      Twisted
      S130 Dragonmar

      "If you can't take brutal honesty then you are speaking to the wrong person"
      "Touring S130....one guild at a time"

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      • #18
        intelligent convos, your right, this is getting out of hand. maybe we should badmouth people for purchasing balens, or complain about knights being weak?

        i didnt really factor in the buffs and debuffs vs lower and higher level mobs. it never really occurred to me to be honest but it makes perfect sense.
        i was thinking more of the wb aspect aspect of the game, because thats all crit is good for right? damn archers and their wb...

        as for a players base br factoring crit shouldnt really make a difference, providing they are facing the same mob with the same amount of crit and with the same level, their crit rates should be the same, the differences in damage given and received would be very different due to the differences in other stats, attack, defence etc. but the crit rates should stay the same.
        without controlled tests i guess we will never know the correct answer, and its not very easy to create controlled conditions within the game.

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        • #19
          IMO Crit is important because it's the basis of your rage. The more you crit the faster you build rage, so for me being an archer it's critical <-- no pun intended.. From 2k crit to 3.5k I noticed an increase of crit chance on higher damage skills like, Armor Piercer , Frozen arrow etc,, On ones with a a 20% crit chance already added I didn't notice much of a difference. I also took off all crit gems to test damage and yes taking them off made my damage lower, so Crit is important and does add damage. However keep in mind your defense is just as important, On my archer at the moment I stack ptak first, crit 2nd, Hp 3rd. While other people don't stack crit on my server they stack pdef and mdef. So in pvp I would probably suggest keeping up your defense, but in PVE Crit plays a pretty big role considering it almost doubles your damage.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by FarrelBrown View Post
            Higher BR or higher level? I can see the higher level factor but higher BR just doesn't make sense to me. Well......there's a lot of things in this game that don't make sense to me I guess....lol
            Potentially both, but BR seems to be an independent factor. Pop warrior's call, get all stats boost from a Pandora's box, lv. 5 pots, scrolls (in other words: fully buff WITHOUT a crit scroll) - check your crit frequency on the same mob/boss/player/etc. before/after buffing. It results in a noticeable reduction to crit frequency.

            Initially, I trusted the static crit value : crit-ratio formula to be accurate. Was easily disproven.
            Then I also believed it'd be a matter of a diminishing return formula - which holds weight and truth to an extent, but if BR wasn't a variable, the situation I just suggested wouldn't have such a predictable result.

            So... now I find that it is a combination of static value (up to a point) + diminishing return value (after said point) with an aspect of proportionality in respect to BR. This one seems to hold truth for me at the moment, but I can't say I've "figured it out" with any certainty quite yet.
            Last edited by SinnedWill; 08-08-2013, 11:38 AM.

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            • #21
              (1-0.9995^crit)x100% is supposedly the formula for crit chance. crit in formula is value of critical your toon has.

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