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Mage Talents: Momentum & Survival

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Nimras186 View Post
    Survival 10 rage works i have felt it before i got PVE set often and even after so on others.

    The Blessing i also always seen works every single time not failed me yet but again thats my luck i guess..
    Ok, must be your luck.



    Originally posted by Nimras186 View Post
    Actually he is right about the rage you get.

    AS a mage the passive talent gives +2 rage every time you deal damage EVERY time and i have done the math it works.

    I do RoF the most and like Met its 2 hits but it works like a charm.

    6 enemies 2 hits = 24 rage = i gain rage. if i used RoF.

    But its easy to test for me.

    I start with 21 rage has pve set.

    I will fight a group of 4 monsters.

    RoF = 16 rage cost
    21 - 16 = 5 rage left.
    5 + 10 from pve set = 15 left <--- now lets see
    Result after 1 RoF = 31 rage.
    31 - 15 = 16 rage gained from the hit
    16 / 4 = 4 rage per unit
    4 / 2 = 2 hit on each unit which RoF DOES.

    SO he is right there.

    Now if MET can hit 3 times per unit i can't say never tested it but lets say it can do 3 hits then i would have gained (3*2)*4 = 24 rage from that 1 hit against 4 targets.

    So OP is right about your rage gain like it or not.
    Test this on one target (a guildy or friend) and please confirm it if you don't mind. I've only gotten 14 rage back (10 from set for taking action, 4 from lv. 2 heart elemental due to the 2 guaranteed hits) from a single target hit with meteor, regardless of whether or not the additional hit has procced (if heart elemental works on the additional 'proc' damage you'll be getting 16 rage back in this situation - which I've never seen occur, but I suppose they could've stealthily implemented it in a patch). If you can't test/confirm it while I'm at work, I will test/confirm later, regardless of whether I like it or not.

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    • #17
      proc damage of meteor does not gain rage.. tested it in wilds.. 4 mobs should give me 16from passive + 10pve set = 26 gain rage ; in other words you loss 4 rage.. tested it with a proc damage and with out.. still i get same rage after the fight

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DeathRiver View Post
        I have level 7 Momentum and level 6 Survival. And personally, I think it is fine to take Survival up to level 10. Since there aren't many situation where you would need that much healing that fast. During CW, it might pose a problem due to being a bit slow, but with the new rune system, things kinda got remedied. For most of other situations, you'd have Blessed Light in rotation with Restoration, when both of their talents match level, things even out.
        hmm, have u noticed anything wrong with ur survival at lvl 6? i used to had survival lvl 1, and then i redid my talent and got it to lvl 4 and noticed that most of the time i was healing the same amount as before, and sometimes even less. There may have been a turn where i healed 2 or 3k more, but those were rare, and almost never happened.

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        • #19
          @R23209055: Not much problem as far as I've seen. The healing amount got a bit wider in range (read as floating value), but overall, increased as depicted in talent level.
          The Last Remnant OSTs Go!!!

          {OuO**

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          • #20
            Originally posted by SinnedWill View Post
            Ok, must be your luck.



            Test this on one target (a guildy or friend) and please confirm it if you don't mind. I've only gotten 14 rage back (10 from set for taking action, 4 from lv. 2 heart elemental due to the 2 guaranteed hits) from a single target hit with meteor, regardless of whether or not the additional hit has procced (if heart elemental works on the additional 'proc' damage you'll be getting 16 rage back in this situation - which I've never seen occur, but I suppose they could've stealthily implemented it in a patch). If you can't test/confirm it while I'm at work, I will test/confirm later, regardless of whether I like it or not.
            BUT you just said it your self TEST IT ON ONE TARGET.

            1 TARGET = 4 rage max.

            Why RoF does 2 hits, there is only 1 target = 4 rage.

            No with pve set and 21 rage this would be the outcome.

            21 - 16 = 5
            5 + 10 from PVE = 15
            15 + 4 from the 2 RoF hits = 19 rage left

            It does work, Againt i never tested with MET where it does more than 2 hits, but every time it does 2 hits on each target have i gained the rage i should.

            About the other not luck everyone i know of mages on my server have had no problem with rage being given by Blessed light, and NOW AND THEN by survival.

            Remember its a chance from what i have gathered its a 10% chance.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by ShiKKihS View Post
              proc damage of meteor does not gain rage.. tested it in wilds.. 4 mobs should give me 16from passive + 10pve set = 26 gain rage ; in other words you loss 4 rage.. tested it with a proc damage and with out.. still i get same rage after the fight
              Well again i have never used MET much as its on my healing set lol. And everytime i done the Met i never really noticed if it does more than 2 hits.

              BUT against 4 targets will the MET gain you back 16 rage of the 30 used.

              But lets say you meet 6 then you get 24 back plus the 10 from your pve = 34 rage.

              But again next time i use MET and if i see it hits 3 times will i look at my rage gain and come back with a answer if it works.

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              • #22
                Nimras, my point was that the bonus "chance to hit" damage attached in meteor doesn't give the +2 rage.

                My starting rage: 39. Used meteor on single target (friend without troops), here's the results:

                Extra damage didn't 'proc': 39-30 = 9; Hits twice (+4), PvE set (+10); net return (+14), new total rage = 23 (thus, 14 rage back). Ended that battle to start again.
                Extra damage DID 'proc': 39-30 = 9; Hits THREE TIMES (still +4), PvE set (+10); net return (still +14), new total rage = 23 (again, 14 rage back).

                Tested, confirmed.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by SinnedWill View Post
                  Nimras, my point was that the bonus "chance to hit" damage attached in meteor doesn't give the +2 rage.

                  My starting rage: 39. Used meteor on single target (friend without troops), here's the results:

                  Extra damage didn't 'proc': 39-30 = 9; Hits twice (+4), PvE set (+10); net return (+14), new total rage = 23 (thus, 14 rage back). Ended that battle to start again.
                  Extra damage DID 'proc': 39-30 = 9; Hits THREE TIMES (still +4), PvE set (+10); net return (still +14), new total rage = 23 (again, 14 rage back).

                  Tested, confirmed.
                  Ahh my bad i misunderstood you

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by SinnedWill View Post
                    Certainly not the best skill to use on a good knight, nor do I suggest its usage in WB with any frequency.
                    I'm going to slightly disagree with you here. I absolutely don't advocate spamming MD every 3-6 seconds, depending on how many ranks you have in Momentum, but against pretty much any knight I need to drop 2 AoE's immediately to wipe out their troops so rather than waiting for RoF to come off CD I will put down MD second and then start in on bolt to gain rage so I can feel out the situation from there. Usually don't cast it again the entire fight but for those first 2 turns it's my mainstay. GA of course I definitely agree since my standard opening for that is going to be RoF, Bolt, BL or Resto and as mages our "job" in Arena is to **** everyone else off by healing our team before they die.

                    As for WB I definitely disagree. My previous WB rotation was Thunderer (open), auto+bolt, auto+RoF, auto+bolt, Auto+RoF, Thunderer w/o double. I could maintain this rotation for about 3-4 rounds maybe more with Castinator or ring proccs. After getting my Momentum to rank 3 I switched up to Thunderer (open), auto+RoF, auto+MD, auto+RoF, auto+MD, auto+RoF. Now that rotation I can keep going on average for about 6-8 rounds before I need to do a rage gain round with a couple of auto+bolt combos and it gives me about an extra 10-15k Gold/Daru per round increase (was averaging 115-125k with just Vouchers at below level 10 Inspiration and went to 125-140k) . So for ME the sweet spot was 3 ranks as it allows for that RoF/MD "spam" with no downtime.
                    Last edited by FarrelBrown; 08-08-2013, 11:41 PM.
                    Patryn
                    Twisted
                    S130 Dragonmar

                    "If you can't take brutal honesty then you are speaking to the wrong person"
                    "Touring S130....one guild at a time"

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                    • #25
                      Guys sorry for the OT but i see a lot of ppl here are talking about meteor and at the same time thunderer. What is your skill tree if you dont have double skills? Im 64 level now and I'm facing decision if i should go level 5 RoF/LB or start leveling my delphic/thunderer which are both level 0 now.

                      Any recomendation is highly appreciated.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mitashki View Post
                        Guys sorry for the OT but i see a lot of ppl here are talking about meteor and at the same time thunderer. What is your skill tree if you dont have double skills? Im 64 level now and I'm facing decision if i should go level 5 RoF/LB or start leveling my delphic/thunderer which are both level 0 now.

                        Any recomendation is highly appreciated.
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                        These are my two skill trees. I know you are wondering about single skill tree and you are level 64 vs my 74 but it's at least something to look at and see what you can get later. As for what to level I would say work more towards the full heals build with Thunderer something you take at a later date. Rank 4 RoF may be the BIG gain rank but rank 5 is still a pretty decent damage gain and Bolt should be maxed as well before starting on your Thunderer skill chain. That's juts my 2 cents tho.
                        Patryn
                        Twisted
                        S130 Dragonmar

                        "If you can't take brutal honesty then you are speaking to the wrong person"
                        "Touring S130....one guild at a time"

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                        • #27
                          Thanks, thats confirming what i thought myself. Im working towards my LD medailon once i have that i will start leveling fast again. In 200~ loids im done with my pve set so thunderer seemed to be a big boost but than again with 1 tree there is not much option to go.

                          Issue is that with 1 tree i will have rof / LB 5 at level 68 and for max thunderer i will need another 7 skills...

                          So thats not even possible at level 80 lol

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by FarrelBrown View Post
                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]50683[/ATTACH]
                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]50684[/ATTACH]

                            These are my two skill trees. I know you are wondering about single skill tree and you are level 64 vs my 74 but it's at least something to look at and see what you can get later. As for what to level I would say work more towards the full heals build with Thunderer something you take at a later date. Rank 4 RoF may be the BIG gain rank but rank 5 is still a pretty decent damage gain and Bolt should be maxed as well before starting on your Thunderer skill chain. That's juts my 2 cents tho.
                            Virtually identical heals tree to me, bud (thumbs up).

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by FarrelBrown View Post
                              I'm going to slightly disagree with you here. I absolutely don't advocate spamming MD every 3-6 seconds, depending on how many ranks you have in Momentum, but against pretty much any knight I need to drop 2 AoE's immediately to wipe out their troops so rather than waiting for RoF to come off CD I will put down MD second and then start in on bolt to gain rage so I can feel out the situation from there. Usually don't cast it again the entire fight but for those first 2 turns it's my mainstay. GA of course I definitely agree since my standard opening for that is going to be RoF, Bolt, BL or Resto and as mages our "job" in Arena is to **** everyone else off by healing our team before they die.

                              As for WB I definitely disagree. My previous WB rotation was Thunderer (open), auto+bolt, auto+RoF, auto+bolt, Auto+RoF, Thunderer w/o double. I could maintain this rotation for about 3-4 rounds maybe more with Castinator or ring proccs. After getting my Momentum to rank 3 I switched up to Thunderer (open), auto+RoF, auto+MD, auto+RoF, auto+MD, auto+RoF. Now that rotation I can keep going on average for about 6-8 rounds before I need to do a rage gain round with a couple of auto+bolt combos and it gives me about an extra 10-15k Gold/Daru per round increase (was averaging 115-125k with just Vouchers at below level 10 Inspiration and went to 125-140k) . So for ME the sweet spot was 3 ranks as it allows for that RoF/MD "spam" with no downtime.
                              On knights in solo duels I stick to Bolt, RoF, Damnation, Thunderer, Resto skills on bar. Problem is I find meteor to lack the punching power on those block-stacking knights. I do my best not to use RoF (or meteor) on knights since they offer greater chances for the knight to receive a block-heal proc. Sure, taking out troops ASAP is a priority, don't get me wrong, but I need the punching power from my 4/4 thunderer spec in addition to damnation to "tank-bust" certain good knights. And yes, heal-spec mages are the ultimate trolls of group arena and BG, you do a great job at that, no doubt, lol.

                              Point I was trying to make about meteor (and RoF for that matter) is that against opponents with high MDEF, the damage values they put out are pretty poor (until damage bonus time kicks in or brutality rune is used) by comparison to the DPS other classes throw out, and you certainly can't rely on the %-healing received bonus to proc often enough to factor it in heavily enough to consider it a boost to your survivability. Not saying momentum/meteor isn't a viable skill-set, it certainly can be, I'm just biased against meteor I think due to the fact that it's a pre-req for puri, and, well, I really hated resetting skill points long ago to pick up puri for bloodlands so many moons ago
                              Last edited by SinnedWill; 08-09-2013, 09:44 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by SinnedWill View Post
                                On knights in solo duels I stick to Bolt, RoF, Damnation, Thunderer, Resto skills on bar. Problem is I find meteor to lack the punching power on those block-stacking knights. I do my best not to use RoF (or meteor) on knights since they offer greater chances for the knight to receive a block-heal proc. Sure, taking out troops ASAP is a priority, don't get me wrong, but I need the punching power from my 4/4 thunderer spec in addition to damnation to "tank-bust" certain good knights. And yes, heal-spec mages are the ultimate trolls of group arena and BG, you do a great job at that, no doubt, lol.

                                Point I was trying to make about meteor (and RoF for that matter) is that against opponents with high MDEF, the damage values they put out are pretty poor (until damage bonus time kicks in or brutality rune is used) by comparison to the DPS other classes throw out, and you certainly can't rely on the %-healing received bonus to proc often enough to factor it in heavily enough to consider it a boost to your survivability. Not saying momentum/meteor isn't a viable skill-set, it certainly can be, I'm just biased against meteor I think due to the fact that it's a pre-req for puri, and, well, I really hated resetting skill points long ago to pick up puri for bloodlands so many moons ago
                                Yeah I can see where you are coming from with the block stacking. After troops are gone I don't use AoEs (Just rely on bolt for rage with spot heals and a well-timed Brut rune/Damage timer/Thunderer). I gave up on Damnation a while ago mostly because by itself it does very little damage without points in Misfortune. I may go back to it as I get my HS up to a reasonable level (Have been seriously slacking on it because I reallocated points into Talents for Class Wars.
                                Last edited by FarrelBrown; 08-09-2013, 11:03 PM.
                                Patryn
                                Twisted
                                S130 Dragonmar

                                "If you can't take brutal honesty then you are speaking to the wrong person"
                                "Touring S130....one guild at a time"

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