Explain ruthlessness + crit

[R211563703]

Sorry eranor you are right. Thx to bring this forward. I have edited my mistake in the posts.

[Yesheron]

I am reviving this thread to point out one thing only.

As many of us higher-end players have found out progressing in levels and battle rating, there is a correlation between actual crit ratio and the ([Crit Value] / [Battle Rating]) variable. I am unsure if level factors into this but I know for certain that battle rating does.

Thus the Charm astral does actually hurt your gains because it adds to your battle rating, albeit by a very small amount. This might also explain why some people get better rewards with it because they are replacing an astral giving more BR.

The optimal astral setup for World Boss is MATK/PATK, Crit, Determination, Ruthlessness and nothing else, or only filling the remaining slots with astrals which give no battle rating whatsoever. Removing all defensive gems also gives a benefit, if you really want to go through the hassle.

[Kingryan]

I am reviving this thread to point out one thing only.

As many of us higher-end players have found out progressing in levels and battle rating, there is a correlation between actual crit ratio and the ([Crit Value] / [Battle Rating]) variable. I am unsure if level factors into this but I know for certain that battle rating does.

Thus the Charm astral does actually hurt your gains because it adds to your battle rating, albeit by a very small amount. This might also explain why some people get better rewards with because they are replacing an astral giving more BR.

The optimal astral setup for World Boss is MATK/PATK, Crit, Determination, Ruthlessness and nothing else, or only filling the remaining slots with astrals which give no battle rating whatsoever. Removing all defensive gems also gives a benefit, if you really want to go through the hassle.

I always do that since the time they said in this forum that huge br means less crit... I do not even use attack scrolls and potions anymore.. (but in cw, i use all pots and scrolls)

[Setsuna88]

still no proof for ruthlessness being useful for wb. i would agree with what he said:

This astro isn't useless in the short run. In fact, it is sometimes referred to as "the gambler astro," and is mostly intended for short fight. Basically, a player always hope to get the better end of the bargain by getting the higher end of the dmg spectum, thus killing much stronger opponents. however it always depend on luck. I tried this astro extensively on wb at lv 7, and being bad luck that i am, i get much less gold/daru. In theory, astro is useless in the long run cause the dmg does average out.

id just add that its useful for fights that you can repeat many times and need to win only once, for example skytrial. if you keep trying with this astral then eventually you will end up doing most of your hits in the very high range, so there is a low chance that you can beat an enemy with this astral, that you otherwise couldnt kill yet. that chance is higher for short fights, because the longer a fight will last, the more likely your damage will be close to your average (which should be the same with and without astral).
unfortunately skytrial fights are not that short so the chance that this astral will help is rather low AND you have to give up another astral to use ruthlessness, which makes it questionable whether this astral is worth using at all.

WB fights are rather short so this astral makes it possible to beat your personal record in how much gold you got from a single WB fight, but this is completely useless for your average gold/daru gain from WB because you have the same chance to get much lower gold next time. The only reason to use this would be if the astral somehow increased your average damage. maybe because the new damage range is calculated in an odd way or if crits would more likely hit in the higher damage range, but thats both very unlikely and needs to be proven before you advice people to use this astral at WB.

Edit: btw, my knight is getting closer to the point where he can survive the wbs last hit. with balens he already could. so in my case survivability stats become more important even for wb

[Yesheron]

^ This is obviously a factor (the survivability.)

Regarding the usefulness or uselessness of Ruthlessness I'd just like to point out one thing.

First of all I have no solid proof but I personally have the feeling that my income rises with it. However, no, I have not done any documented testing.

Second, if you are the strength of player that normally places fourth or fifth in WB (that would not be me, however) then Ruthlessness would make sense since that might shift you into top three if you are lucky giving you additional rewards.

Third there seem to be two mathematical theories about how this astral works. The point here is that the first ( http://forum.r2games.com/showthread....l=1#post635598 ) holds that the average damage stays the same, while the second ( http://forum.r2games.com/showthread....l=1#post635594 ) holds that it increases. Bottom line is that there is no single theory that can sensibly argue for a decrease. It can't hurt to use it, and we don't really know if it helps.

[Yesheron]

unfortunately skytrial fights are not that short so the chance that this astral will help is rather low AND you have to give up another astral to use ruthlessness, which makes it questionable whether this astral is worth using at all.

This however isn't exactly right. No, they aren't short, but you realistically only have time for two money punches (the sylph delphics.) Even 25% extra on those is a big deal.

[Eskendal]

Honestly, no one gives a **** about ruthlessness.

[Yesheron]

Honestly, no one gives a **** about ruthlessness.

This thread has 38 replies. Clearly someone does.

[Valest]

Personally I've found this astral quite effective over the last 3-4 weeks in our gb and wb. Our top knight is 30k br roughly ahead of me, her herc is at 37k br 2 star purple, and has 31k patk with mediocre at best crit at 2.4k. Myself I've got a 4 star gaia at only 14k br 25k patk and 5k crit, and yet even with that massive difference I keep up just find with her using lvl5 orange ruthlessness most of the time. Before using this astral I'd average 115k non-sylph rounds and 160k sylph rounds, which I feel is about average for a 83k br knight with 60 pve set, with this astral I'm averaging 150k non-sylph and 180-200k sylph rounds. yes there's the occasional bad round it's going to happen. As for GB it's doubled my contribution points while striking a ward tower in either mode. I wouldn't recommend this astral for anything but these two purposes however.

[matyre]

Tested ruthless in wb, no significant gain. Crit based on br and ur opponent seem true. You never know if ur opponent used guardian angel.

[Kingryan]

Honestly, no one gives a **** about ruthlessness.

I care. I use it during wb. My enhanced ruthlessness astral is now level 7.

[Linkoneusc]

I use this astral ever since i new about it, i know is a gamble factor i have 6 month using it but one day i for got to change astrals and i ended 9 in WB normaly i end up 3-6... the worst rank i get is 8 with all the heavy hitters on but that day was not the case peeps that never beat me in WB did it, i was like "what tha cupcake up is happening" did not relized was the astral till WB ended that i whent to change my astrals back i saw that i fogot to set WB astrals, i use expand floating damage and the one that gives you a % damage back, is wird but sometimes works at final blow reflecting 50k damge (the one has worst posibilitis than floating damage, i've run WB without it saveral tiems and almost make no dif.).

Off topic... after 2 server merge i got kicked out the top 10 even in my class, i mange to comeback to allover top 10 now till 3-6 rank, merges sometime cupcake your ranks but make it funier if you have a positive and competitive mentality yet still miss the days i was top 1 in my server...lol.

[Arlad]

Off topic... after 2 server merge i got kicked out the top 10 even in my class, i mange to comeback to allover top 10 now till 3-6 rank, merges sometime cupcake your ranks but make it funier if you have a positive and competitive mentality yet still miss the days i was top 1 in my server...lol.

similar story with mine, except i managed to crawl up because most top players quitting.

[noval40]

tested million times ruthlessness it is not bad if u feel lucky but maths say there aint such thing as luck ;p and one more thing for crit . u may get extra dmg cause hit more but determ doesnt stuck on it cause if u just read the description u figure it : *base crit damage* . so ruthless is good for EWD users till they roll crit and only. the problem isnt ruthless the problem is determ dont stack on it like it doesnt stack with wb inspire.

[EdGrr]

I am not sure about this but accourding to me , This is how it works :

Your normal damage ranges from 90% to 110 % .

Lets suppose you do Normal damage of 100% and u do damage of 1000 then your damage ranges from 900 to 1100 .

Now while using lvl 5 E. ruthless , It gives 7*5 % = 35%

#If u do a damage to enemy without ruthless
Minimum damage = 900
Maximum damage =1100
Average damage = (900+1100) /2 =1000


#If u do a damage to enemy with ruthless
Minimum damage = (900 - 35% of 900 ) = 585
Maximum damage = (1100 + 35% of 1100) =1485
Average damage = (585 + 1485 ) /2 =1035

So what I am trying to say is " The 35% Increase and decrease in range is of the Maximum and Minimum damage respectively. "

so much calculation again and again and agian.. like i said before and many times.. ALL YOU NEED IS A FAT WALLET.