Knight: useless class? (MOANING)

[[SHINxTENSHI]]

:P nicely said krack, Well let me tell you my story, I got born, I am 15 and I Found wartune *I also play AION,Vindictus and cs 1.6* , I am a non-casher, but tbh spire,tok and nm dungeons cant be done without a knight, since knight has always 10k more hp than a same ability status archer as him, + more def and Appolo+Shield, these 2 are the most needed<<, Therefore my friend if you level 50-59 with 43k+ ur good, if not means u dont build proply, if your 60-64 with 50k+ ur ok, but me since the Wheel blessing came out if i get 200% my Br will be... 65k , yeah you heard it Non casher 100%, Level 64, Striving to get wings XD, And I play wartune only for 10 months.

So yeah, Is all up the way you build I mean no archer realy can kill me in bg also just 2-4 knights out there can :P, if harder with mages but i manage kill most mages 60k lower... 60-64 so yh i do need star points to reheal fast.
Goodluck, and means you suck in the game if you called knights useless,

IGN: SHINxTENSHI
Guild: VictisHNR
Honor: Imperial Commander
Server: S1
Class: Knight
Level: 64

[kattuktk]

:P nicely said krack, Well let me tell you my story, I got born, I am 15 and I Found wartune *I also play AION,Vindictus and cs 1.6* , I am a non-casher, but tbh spire,tok and nm dungeons cant be done without a knight, since knight has always 10k more hp than a same ability status archer as him, + more def and Appolo+Shield, these 2 are the most needed<<, Therefore my friend if you level 50-59 with 43k+ ur good, if not means u dont build proply, if your 60-64 with 50k+ ur ok, but me since the Wheel blessing came out if i get 200% my Br will be... 65k , yeah you heard it Non casher 100%, Level 64, Striving to get wings XD, And I play wartune only for 10 months.

So yeah, Is all up the way you build I mean no archer realy can kill me in bg also just 2-4 knights out there can :P, if harder with mages but i manage kill most mages 60k lower... 60-64 so yh i do need star points to reheal fast.
Goodluck, and means you suck in the game if you called knights useless,

IGN: SHINxTENSHI
Guild: VictisHNR
Honor: Imperial Commander
Server: S1
Class: Knight
Level: 64

Actually get to lvl 70's and get better BR before calling people suckers, Good luck with finding a team for DT and 70+ dungs and get to regions of 80k BR and realize how not so fantastic knights are(especially in PvE), good luck fighting 4k lower BR mages at that point who will be having insane troop counts, i have an advise for you, change your character now while ur not attached to it..
Plus i never called knights useless in everything, they are useful for countering archers and other knights in grp arena and GB which is good but in PvE they are not a MUST at all, they are always replacable

[Roadsidebomb]

Im lvl 64 knight ... i crush most anything that stands before me .. period ... you lowbie knights all QQ ... have patience ... read guides and dont EVER EVVVVERRR say knights suck,knights are slow and steady not for newb players who wanna be #1 yesterday ... i remember before 55 ... yea it was rough ... my but still hurts from those sandbagger monster mages you speak of,i took their names ... now they are too busy trying to heal that they dont hardly get a chance to atack and i wipe their brains off my boots.And the buff you speak of ? my academy maxxed ... i have buff too lmao

LMFAO you're a lowbie Knight, lvl 64 please. Always the same on these forums ppl think they know it all at lvl 60 lol.

Some good points were made. I've said it long ago and I still think the same thing. Mages and Archers aren't OP, and yes there is meant to be some theoretical food chain but what irks me is the **** talent wheel Knights have in comparison to the other 2 classes. Mages get talents attached to the healing skills (BL and Restore) because after all they're "Healers" right? At least thats all we ever hear. Also they get the all important talent that can cut rage cost, probably one of the biggest disadvantages to Mages (their ability to build rage).

Archers are DPS so they get 5 talents (out of 8) that can or does increase their dmg. Plus they get things like IS cd talent which helps them survive better as well as BT strike.

Knights, we get nice ones attached to Interceptor, and Shadow Thrasher lmfao. Or talents that are a %chance to proc, and the % is ridiculously low. No talents attached to Aragorn Shield or Apollos.....aren't we meant to be the "Tank" class? I don't think there is anything wrong with Mages or Archers, I'm completely happy with them...even most issues with Knights I can live with but I'm just stressing the point our talent wheel blows. All you lvl 60-ish Knights that think you own everyone, well your either spending a shi.tload or you're on a weak server. And pls tell me how I "just don't know how to build my Knight correctly" I'd probably destroy most or your toons.

BTW the lvl 70 MP's (NM as well) a Knight isn't even needed so there goes that "Tank Class" ** everyone keeps talking about. A group of just Archers and Mages can clear the map no Knight needed.

[krackenker]

now its impossible for knights to get through the troops my friend.... if u have a troop count of 2.2k and a lvl 70 templar your temps will be having 80k HP, show me ANY knight who would kill two 80k HP temps in less than 5-6 turns.... your sunt will be ever so powerful on temps now... its no argument.. mages dominate

Never said knights would clear it fast..
A knight needs to clear troops shortly before 50%, ... more or less 10 turns to do that (during which the mage should be damaged a bit), then a single high lvl rune+edd will wipe most mages (if dmged a bit from before) ..... In a fair 1v1 knight's are good, but what ppl for some reason think of when it comes to pvp is mostly BG, in which mage absolutely rule... I can't argue against that.. heals rule in bg.. In a 1v1 with both just getting the starting rage from clothes(+perhaps LD medal) which you should use a starting point, not 100 rage in bg.. Keeping troops alive and do constant dd to kill a good tanky knight is how the game is balanced from, not mage starting with 100 rage able to suntoria, BL, and aoes to clear troops (without using bolts...).

@Roadside.. yep agreed knights talents sucks.. with HS cap they are forced to waste points on stuffs they dont need aswell..

[kattuktk]

Never said knights would clear it fast..
A knight needs to clear troops shortly before 50%, ... more or less 10 turns to do that (during which the mage should be damaged a bit), then a single high lvl rune+edd will wipe most mages (if dmged a bit from before) ..... In a fair 1v1 knight's are good, but what ppl for some reason think of when it comes to pvp is mostly BG, in which mage absolutely rule... I can't argue against that.. heals rule in bg.. In a 1v1 with both just getting the starting rage from clothes(+perhaps LD medal) which you should use a starting point, not 100 rage in bg.. Keeping troops alive and do constant dd to kill a good tanky knight is how the game is balanced from, not mage starting with 100 rage able to suntoria, BL, and aoes to clear troops (without using bolts...).

@Roadside.. yep agreed knights talents sucks.. with HS cap they are forced to waste points on stuffs they dont need aswell..

The one thing which really pisses me off is that now mages' heals on templars would actually be effective, earlier mages had to aoe the foe out b4 his temps died, but now a mage can actually restore his temp(or even use BL) coz they have massive HP.
Oh and thanks for replying in a decent manner, coz there are some people here who just like to make the other guy worthless using pointless arguments and not concentrating on the argument which is going on itself....

[krackenker]

The one thing which really pisses me off is that now mages' heals on templars would actually be effective, earlier mages had to aoe the foe out b4 his temps died, but now a mage can actually restore his temp(or even use BL) coz they have massive HP.
Oh and thanks for replying in a decent manner, coz there are some people here who just like to make the other guy worthless using pointless arguments and not concentrating on the argument which is going on itself....

To me it was worth it before aswell:P difference now is i have to cast 1 more aoe, which I would anyway, but in turn get to cast suntoria and have troops alive by the time BL is rdy, yeah this patch benefits mage immensive.. Can't argue about that

[FarrelBrown]

Oh and thanks for replying in a decent manner, coz there are some people here who just like to make the other guy worthless using pointless arguments and not concentrating on the argument which is going on itself....

You mean like you?

You can actually go back through every response I have given you on every subject which we have collectively posted on and know that I have given extremely constructive and detailed responses. You on the other hand have flip-flopped your points and insulted anyone who questioned you by calling them a noob or claiming they have no idea what they are saying. In your 55 PvP vs 50 leg PvE thread from a while back you DID claim to have killed someone in BG who, from your own claims was "in 60 PvE legendary" so don't imagine that I'm just pulling things out of the air.

As to the argument itself. I would never waste my time healing my Templars unless it were a late Resto to buy me a tiny bit of time close to 50% timer so I can Brut + Thunderer and hope for a nice, juicy crit. Also remember that in order to guarantee a hit on my opponent with Thunderer I NEED to clear their troops first. RoF and MD may be highly effective against troops but against a well built knight, more often than not, it will heal them through their block passive. What you are failing to either realize, or point out, is exactly what krackenker stated. Once that 50% timer hits mages are living on borrowed time. We HAVE to drop you guys quickly by clearing your troops and doing large amounts of single target damage to you otherwise we will get brushed aside by a brut+EDD.

[fishertheman13]

i never said i was high lvl,just pointing out most who are complaining are where i was a month or 2 ago,facing sandbaggers and players with way more play time and way better stuff,has nothing to do with *knights suck* as he said has to do with the way each characters leveling path works,on a lighter note my HS is finally high enough that stun doesnt work on me anymore in the 64 bracket ... DIE STUPID HS BUILT PEOPLE !!! DIE DIE DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! mwuhahaha All Good Things Come To Those Who Wait Patiently,and yea you are right knights arent really needed in higher lvl dungeons already happening now,but i still get runs in cause im a way better replacement then some glass cannon archer whos built for WB or mage who has no idea how to handle rage in dungeons *NO rage SORRYYYYYY* lmao

[0xykotton]

*** is wrong with you bragging about the chinese version my friend???? u know what you are doing wrong here? you are taking knights from chinese version and comparing them to mages and archers here ... if ur watching videos of knights having 250k BR then you should also take a look at mages of that BR.... good luck to the knights standing against that aoe power and 100k HP troops..... and you would not want to brag about chinese version in front of me as i know loads more than u can ever imagine..... for example the fairies which mages get are powerful than knights' fairies... also the guardian system is best for mages and archers and slides the knights down even more( ofc against a same BR mage... if people are like you who compare 250k BR knights to guys here then its outta question)
Also block has a cap of 3k which is nothing once u start reaching that 250k BR mark, now dont start random stuff like "block's cap is removed, u dont know anything" as the block cap is still there.. end game mages dominate more than anything..... just take a look at the GB video of the chinese version.... they own knights and archs like babies... knights' lack of ability to hit multiple targets haunts them more in the end game

Okay guys this person is the god of all knights. Obviously I do not know anything even though I have played on the server. The things i saw were all in my imagination and never exist. I making things up here and only this person knows everything in the world. He/she is the godliest of all wartune and we must obey him/her. Seriously, do you want me to show you screen shots or videos or something? Do you want me to post hte servers and what not? I am not making up **** here. Stop thinking I am it's really freaking annoying now. Why the hell would i make up this ****? Pathetic.

[R27355993]

I play a knight and believe a lot of the feedback that they have an extreme disadvantage in the game; however, later in the game they do have more advantages, etc. I'm lvl 66 right now with 60 set pve - and the brutality rune with ww is an extreme advantage when dealing with troops. When it comes to mages that are similar BR, it really boils down to HS. If your HS is greater, the mage cannot heal the troops before you kill him/her, or you lose. Archers will always lose regardless of HS if their BR is around the same level.

[R211563703]

kattukt

One question why do you think mages rules in both characters. Here in my server knigt rules everyone and there are also some mages with similar BR. His name is Olunia. I never hear him complain not to be able to take out mage with similar BR, but i am haring you and a lot. Either you dont know how to play agains mages or your character is build in wrong way. I am mage and nicely build if i meet knight with same BR as me and he gose directly agains my troops to clear them fast and forget abotu shield in frist few attacks he will lose. I can take down knight who has 2000 br higher than me. On the other hand if i came across knight who waits and use shields properly he takes out my troops lose around half HP points but still takes out me when facing one on one without troops. So what exactly is your problem then.

[Setsuna88]

does the chinese version get anything to improve their troops further? right now they got a huge buff thanks to academy blessing and it's effect on the troop count skill but after reaching lvl 80 and lvl 80 troops how exactly can you improve them? they wont get stronger at all unless you chose charisma gems and refinements. so i would have thought that those 200k br monsters can just kill them in 1 blow anyway. besides, with lvl 10 talents our WW skill should have a cd of 7 seconds.

[ladykate7]

DarKnights R More Sexy N Cool!!!!!!!!!!They R Not Useless!MF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[xnovaflarex]

Yes this is how it is, but once your knight is decent, troop or not the mage will be poking you... knight doesnt kill fast, they just outlast every1.

No doubt feel free to check my math on this based on my current stats for hp block etc
Currently my block rate 60% so 60 out of 100 hits is a block
enhanced block 4% of max hp regained with each block
current hp just shy 30k will say 30k for simplicity
30000-4% 1200 over 100 hits 60 blocks 60x1200 = 72,000 hp gained over 100 hits 72000+30000 = 102,000 hp effectively over 100 attacks.
To actually get net damage against me effectively you must do more than 1200 points damage every single shot
My pdef is 8263 acording to all i read or hear that means my pdef will take away 1/2 that 4131 damage negated by def so to get net damage you must actually do 4131 pdamage + 1200 5331 will = zero lost hp my mdef is 4868 so half of that +1200 just to do zero damage with me getting zero gain.

Now im planning on getting every last point of block that i can get total on a wiki for wartune is listed as 95% block rate. End game knights are going to be next to impossible to kill in pvp.

[bleedingxorange]

No doubt feel free to check my math on this based on my current stats for hp block etc
Currently my block rate 60% so 60 out of 100 hits is a block
enhanced block 4% of max hp regained with each block
current hp just shy 30k will say 30k for simplicity
30000-4% 1200 over 100 hits 60 blocks 60x1200 = 72,000 hp gained over 100 hits 72000+30000 = 102,000 hp effectively over 100 attacks.
To actually get net damage against me effectively you must do more than 1200 points damage every single shot
My pdef is 8263 acording to all i read or hear that means my pdef will take away 1/2 that 4131 damage negated by def so to get net damage you must actually do 4131 pdamage + 1200 5331 will = zero lost hp my mdef is 4868 so half of that +1200 just to do zero damage with me getting zero gain.

Now im planning on getting every last point of block that i can get total on a wiki for wartune is listed as 95% block rate. End game knights are going to be next to impossible to kill in pvp.

how do you figure you have a 60% block rate? Just FYI 1k block = ~10% block chance. If you only have 30k hp and 8k pdef I HIGHLY doubt you have anywhere NEAR 60% block. Right now I have 2.2k block and i block about once every 4-5 hits or around 20%.

and the way dmg works is:
atk - def / 2. If someone has 11k patk and you have 8k pdef it would be 11-8/2 or 1.5k dmg. If a mage with 11k matk hit you with 5k mdef you would take 3k dmg. These numbers are also based off of auto-attacks because skills give out %'s. For instance a maxed out ult. slasher is 150% dmg + 300 dmg with a QTE of 25% more dmg. meaning that other knight with 11k patk would ult. slasher you for quite a bit more.