Holly Seal runed this game!

[Zorich]

Well said Athena.

I think HS can be fixed, but in it's current state, it's just broken. Against an equal-strength player it's an iWin button. Against a slightly-weaker player, it's often an iWin button for the weaker player. It's rare that an 80k BR can beat a 70K BR when that 70K BR is doing a 3-round stun every 9 rounds. It takes some serious skill and luck to do that.

If they nerf it in 2.0 it will be better. Max 2 Rounds and a 120s CD will mitigate the iWin factor of it.

[Moncheria]

ive said that because there are some players like silvercooler, bankai, lapasha, Lörd which are heavenly insult or get very aggresive if you stun them^^
but exact these players are only at this position because of his "vip-34" buyed 100k br.

if you nerf holy seal, the blood runes should be nerfed too, actually you have no chance in mage-class-wars against 12-14k dmg bleeding balens-runes at 100% mark.

[Zorich]

ive said that because there are some players like silvercooler, bankai, lapasha, Lörd which are heavenly insult or get very aggresive if you stun them^^
but exact these players are only at this position because of his "vip-34" buyed 100k br.

if you nerf holy seal, the blood runes should be nerfed too, actually you have no chance in mage-class-wars against 12-14k dmg bleeding balens-runes at 100% mark.

I know it's annoying when people complain about Holy Seal - but the complaints are valid. It's a skill that, in any PvP action outside of CW, seems to determine the outcome of the match 90% of the time. And the thing is, unlike a Blood Rune, there's no way to counter it. Blood Runes can be Purification'd away. That's why my CW Set is LB, Puri, Resto, Sunto, BL. It takes a while to get rid of the troops, but all in all it wins because you're keeping yourself up at full HP the entire time, and Damnation w/ a L3 Talent at the 100% Mark is doing 15k+ Damage regardless of your opponents MDef.

If they had a Rune that could block/remove the Holy Seal stun effect, THAT would be nice and would create a little balance where HS is concerned.

[Zorich]

Also, the argument that $ buys BR, while valid, is a bit over-stated.

There's smart spending and not-so-smart spending, and most people do the latter. Yeah, Zebq has L7 (or is it 8) Stables now. That's > $40k USD. Hell, just to go from L2 - L3 Stables, buying it w/ Balens, costs over $1500 USD. That's pretty insane. Similar issue with Soul Crystals. Those people w/ L50+ Engraving have dropped thounsands upon thousands into it when they're available in the shops.

I probably spend about $150 / month (It's about half my fun-budget allowance) as well as do some "Free Balen" promotions. So since I started playing I've dropped just under a grand USD or so. I've never bought things like Refinement Crystals, Soul Crystals or Mount Whips - because they're endless drains with moderate to little benefit long term if you don't drop at least $10K+ into it.

I've used my Balens on WB Buffs, Magic Pot (which was the BEST promo they've had), Event boxes which lead to new Mounts or produce lots of Gem Packs and Refinement Locking. That's really about it. My unbuffed BR is at 80k and I've got L2 Stables and Soul Engraving of only L22. I don't have full legend sets of L10-Stat items, though I do have a full L60 set and am working towards my L70. I've never bought Runes w/ Balens, and since the Fate Wheel came out, I'll do 2 extra spins for a combined 80 Balens a day. That's already got me to L2 Brutal Edge. Runes are another bad place to spend Balens. They're finite after all, and with the new System / Rewards from Tanks, I'm earning around 1500 Rune XP a day. When you get lucky in ToK Hard and get Runes that's another 2K+ Rune XP. I've got Blood 6, Purge 5, Brut 8 and until I see an Ancient Pack (and hopefully pull Chaos), that's all I focus on.

What I do have is great Astrals (for being a Mage that started in April) and all the Mounts save the Evil Alpaca and the Guild Master / CW ones. My Astrals are L7 Holy Myst, L6 Holy Will, L6 Holy Fort, L6 Holy Brilliance, L6 Holy Enshieldment, L8 Goddess Blessing (Orange), L7 Will Destroyer (Orange) and L7 Illusion (Orange). I'm also at the point that I've gotten almost all L6 Gems. When I throw on my Academy Blessing my BR goes to 87K. With WC I push 95K. Throw on Pots & Scrolls and I'm about 100k.

Again, while I am a casher, I'm not a nearly an extreme casher, and I've endeavored to spend balens in the places that give the best rewards and pass on those that are drains with little reward. I compete just fine with many players who've dropped thousands upon thousands into the game as evidenced by L4+ Mounts, L40+ Engraving, L5+ Brutal Edge, L7+ Gems and Maxxed Runes. It isn't until a player who's been playing 3-4 months longer uses Holy Seal on me that I feel I'm non-competitive. And that just sucks.

[FrostieTheSnowman]

Stun is just a tool. I do not agree that it's broken or OP as some of the people in here --> seem <-- to be suggesting it is. (Used arrows for added emphasis)

Timing on skills and/or Talents are what win fights. I have beat stronger players who stunned me, and I have also lost to players whom I've stunned in BG. A well-timed Resto, or a Thunderer precisely when the timer goes to 150% for example, is far more effective IMO than a 2 turn stun.

[thegoldgun68]

Same here, I really think before I spend balens, even though I only spend like $50 a month sometimes less I try to get the best rewards, I really like how you play, tbh with that amount of cash you spend I would say your pretty damn good.

Also, the argument that $ buys BR, while valid, is a bit over-stated.

There's smart spending and not-so-smart spending, and most people do the latter. Yeah, Zebq has L7 (or is it 8) Stables now. That's > $40k USD. Hell, just to go from L2 - L3 Stables, buying it w/ Balens, costs over $1500 USD. That's pretty insane. Similar issue with Soul Crystals. Those people w/ L50+ Engraving have dropped thounsands upon thousands into it when they're available in the shops.

I probably spend about $150 / month (It's about half my fun-budget allowance) as well as do some "Free Balen" promotions. So since I started playing I've dropped just under a grand USD or so. I've never bought things like Refinement Crystals, Soul Crystals or Mount Whips - because they're endless drains with moderate to little benefit long term if you don't drop at least $10K+ into it.

I've used my Balens on WB Buffs, Magic Pot (which was the BEST promo they've had), Event boxes which lead to new Mounts or produce lots of Gem Packs and Refinement Locking. That's really about it. My unbuffed BR is at 80k and I've got L2 Stables and Soul Engraving of only L22. I don't have full legend sets of L10-Stat items, though I do have a full L60 set and am working towards my L70. I've never bought Runes w/ Balens, and since the Fate Wheel came out, I'll do 2 extra spins for a combined 80 Balens a day. That's already got me to L2 Brutal Edge. Runes are another bad place to spend Balens. They're finite after all, and with the new System / Rewards from Tanks, I'm earning around 1500 Rune XP a day. When you get lucky in ToK Hard and get Runes that's another 2K+ Rune XP. I've got Blood 6, Purge 5, Brut 8 and until I see an Ancient Pack (and hopefully pull Chaos), that's all I focus on.

What I do have is great Astrals (for being a Mage that started in April) and all the Mounts save the Evil Alpaca and the Guild Master / CW ones. My Astrals are L7 Holy Myst, L6 Holy Will, L6 Holy Fort, L6 Holy Brilliance, L6 Holy Enshieldment, L8 Goddess Blessing (Orange), L7 Will Destroyer (Orange) and L7 Illusion (Orange). I'm also at the point that I've gotten almost all L6 Gems. When I throw on my Academy Blessing my BR goes to 87K. With WC I push 95K. Throw on Pots & Scrolls and I'm about 100k.

Again, while I am a casher, I'm not a nearly an extreme casher, and I've endeavored to spend balens in the places that give the best rewards and pass on those that are drains with little reward. I compete just fine with many players who've dropped thousands upon thousands into the game as evidenced by L4+ Mounts, L40+ Engraving, L5+ Brutal Edge, L7+ Gems and Maxxed Runes. It isn't until a player who's been playing 3-4 months longer uses Holy Seal on me that I feel I'm non-competitive. And that just sucks.

[Zorich]

Stun is just a tool. I do not agree that it's broken or OP as some of the people in here --> seem <-- to be suggesting it is. (Used arrows for added emphasis)

Timing on skills and/or Talents are what win fights. I have beat stronger players who stunned me, and I have also lost to players whom I've stunned in BG. A well-timed Resto, or a Thunderer precisely when the timer goes to 150% for example, is far more effective IMO than a 2 turn stun.

Says the person who joined in Nov 2012 . In 5 Months, at a rate of 30M XP a day (What I earn @ L74), I could have 80 more talents. That's right. 80

If I had 122 Total Talents I wouldn't be complaining about Holy Seal either I guess .

Edit:

So I guess it takes about 10 months of optimized daily play to get Holy Seal to L99, and closer to a year if you level other Talents along with it. If you go straight into the L70s and are capable of doing those MPs daily w/ a group. I wonder how long it takes someone who camps each level and maximized HS there... After all, the daily jump in XP from L64-69 is like 2-3 Million. The Jump from 69-74 is like 5-6 Million.

If one makes 30 Mil / Day @ L74 and 22 Mil / Day @ L64, that's about a 25% XP Loss per day. Or, and extra Month or more it will take a player to max-out their Seal. Another reason Camping Levels to Max Seal, in the long term, is a character gimp.

[Zorich]

Same here, I really think before I spend balens, even though I only spend like $50 a month sometimes less I try to get the best rewards, I really like how you play, tbh with that amount of cash you spend I would say your pretty damn good.

Thanks for the compliment. Much appreciated.

I also want to point out however, that I'm not disparaging those that do spend excessive (by my standard) amounts. To each their own. I just know I've got a limited budget and have tried to make myself as competitive as possible within that budget. I think once someone's capable of spending more than $1k / mo they've got no other alternatives than to start pumping balens into stables, soul crystals, the fate wheel and max-refining. And that's all well and good, and I take nothing away from them.

I just think people on moderate budgets should be informed as to what gives the best reward per $ spent.

[AndreyTz]

A lightning bolt is quicker and does more damage for all the chance I have of stunning someone.

yeah but if u stun enemy 3 rounds i think is more efective and esp cus at lv 55-60 not so many are talents high

[Zorich]

yeah but if u stun enemy 3 rounds i think is more efective and esp cus at lv 55-60 not so many are talents high

I think the point was "for all the chance I have of stunning someone" from the quoted text.

People on newer servers who aren't camping the 40s and 50s levels have NO chance to successfully stun in L60+ BGs.

[Drag0nsFire]

Can someone who played BG before HS was introduced tell me how easy or tough getting honor was at higher levels? I am guessing it was lot tougher since points gained are nowhere enough to heal self.

[FrostieTheSnowman]

Says the person who joined in Nov 2012 . In 5 Months, at a rate of 30M XP a day (What I earn @ L74), I could have 80 more talents. That's right. 80

If I had 122 Total Talents I wouldn't be complaining about Holy Seal either I guess .

Edit:

So I guess it takes about 10 months of optimized daily play to get Holy Seal to L99, and closer to a year if you level other Talents along with it. If you go straight into the L70s and are capable of doing those MPs daily w/ a group. I wonder how long it takes someone who camps each level and maximized HS there... After all, the daily jump in XP from L64-69 is like 2-3 Million. The Jump from 69-74 is like 5-6 Million.

If one makes 30 Mil / Day @ L74 and 22 Mil / Day @ L64, that's about a 25% XP Loss per day. Or, and extra Month or more it will take a player to max-out their Seal. Another reason Camping Levels to Max Seal, in the long term, is a character gimp.

And your point is? What has my join date got to do with the discussion?

Did you perhaps assume that since I was from the oldest server and got 10 months of playing time under my belt I would have HS/Talents over L100?

Just for the record, I'm L67 and my total HS+Talents points is below 50. You'll find plenty of L68s around that surpass that number by far.

[Zorich]

And your point is? What has my join date got to do with the discussion?

Did you perhaps assume that since I was from the oldest server and got 10 months of playing time under my belt I would have HS/Talents over L100?

Just for the record, I'm L67 and my total HS+Talents points is below 50. You'll find plenty of L68s around that surpass that number by far.

I'm just saying that the vast majority of players who are in favor of Holy Seal are those who've been playing since before 2013, whereas those that joined after the March 2013 time find it to be an OP skill that greatly benefits players who've been here longer, despite them having (in some cases) inferior BR and Skill spec. It is kind of silly that a player with a 65k BR can take a player with an 80k BR by using HS at the onset of a BG fight (denying them 3 rounds) and then again right when the 50% bonus kicks in.

You're talking 12 Rounds of Combat during which one player is inactive for 6, or 50%, assuming the 2nd Stun is enough to end it. You don't think that's a bit much? You think that's fair?

[littlemariola]

HS kills all the strategy this game could have, today for example on 2nd arena round, i was with another 2 mages (1 of 60ks and other+me of 80k), out of 6 fights (towards the end) we fight this team of 2 mages and an archer (names are elma and other 2 i forgot) and what do they do? the 3 of em holy seal at start then brutality > aoe, getting stunned 3 turns because someone has 2 months of advantage over and has been leveling HS is just not right, once we got out of the stunned state we were basically dead, now imagine that u get matched every f-ing day like this on more than 50% of your matches, it really kills the joy of playing the game.

Im cool with playing even fights where skill strategy matters or when u use the right rune at the same time but this is getting really ridiculous, i even had fights where my team got disabled 3 turns and that's all we did on it, stunned from start to finish D:

Devs should put it this way: every 10 holy seal levels of difference with target = 1 turn stunned, this way at least ppl could exploit it less <_<

[PunkPetal]

I think it's perfectly fair

Anyone levelling into 60 BGs knowing how high HS could go and with an average BR and then expecting to sit farming honor is either really good at lying to themselves or has their head stuck in the sand.

It's for that very reason I sat camping in the 59 BG

You work with the tools you have, and if you can't handle being stunned for 3 turns and you want honor from BG you're not strong enough to level up yet.