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WB Unfairness

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Athena-Nike View Post
    I still don't understand whats wrong with archers being better at WB
    Coz they also complain about mages being OP in bg.

    Originally posted by Athena-Nike View Post
    mages own everyone in PvP
    Only in BG starting level 50. Archers easily own mages in bg level 49 below and owns everyone in bg level 39 below. And again, it is only in BG and NOT in ARENA. Arena is different, like if you face 3 mages and you have like 2-3 archers in your team, you will definitely hit mages directly, so squishy squishy. Also, I observed a lot of times archers hitting mages in the back when a knight/an archer are tanking them in front, and I am not talking about the lunatic skill.
    Wartune = Sylph Tune.

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    • #17
      I believe in a future update idk when 2.1? That the WB top 3 is divided into top mages/knights/archers. So there 9 spots split up between classes. I could be wrong on this though so don't take my word for it. I just remember reading it somewhere. Again DON"T take my word for this do a bit of google search and try to find out yourselfs to be 100% certain of what or if there has been changes. I am just posting something that I pretty sure read somewhere. Just can't pinpoint it right now.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by alhill View Post
        An archer friend of mine and I figured out the issue with knights and WB recently. I noticed that I consistently got more gold per round than he did, but he ended up with far more total gold than I did. The problem is not knight's damage output, particularly at the high end. With pve set and crit astrals, the knight does very well. The problem is that the knight animations are much slower than either of the other classes, so each turn takes more time than it takes an archer or mage. Thus the knight gets fewer turns per WB than the other classes.

        So it's not really a balance issue. Knights do perfectly good WB damage, particularly because they can use 2 delphs per round every other round, which no other class can do. The issue is that r2 needs to adjust the animation speeds so that knights' turns do not take so much longer to complete than the other classes.
        Archers are the lone class with the sick advantage. The reason for this is threefold:
        • Double-Hit w/ Armor Piercer (A Fast Attack w/ a 1 second CD that does 200% Damage w/ QTE and Stacks Debuffs for -250 PDef each)
        • Innate Crit-Rate Enhance of +20% & Stacked Damage Buff from Crits for 10%
        • WB not being Crit-Resistant


        You add all that together, and it gets crazy. An Archer w/ PvE gear and 40 Starting Rage can get off 5 Double-Attack APs per fight, every fight, so long as the Crits keep rolling. It's silly. High-end Archers using Balens / Vouchers & Reviving are doing >= 1.5 Million Damage per Round (300k+ Gold & Daru per Round).

        Mages and Knights are actually fairly balanced in WB. Yeah, Mages attack faster and their rounds complete quicker, but they generally do less damage per hit. The Knight's EDD attack, at the high end, can do in excess of 250k damage to the WB quite easily. The advantage the Mage has over the Knight is Thunderer - because it's only 50 Rage to use, and has a quick cooldown, it can be used 2 or 3 times per WB round if played right. The problem is that Thunderer doesn't allow for Double-Attacks, and if you mistime it based on troop movements, it will take 2 rounds to cast and you lose an entire round. It gets real tricky and requires a lot of attention to do right. I play a Mage myself (L77, 26K MAtk Unbuffed), and with just Vouchers I can do 150k-170k a round consistently by going Thunderer / LB* / RoF* / Thunderer / LB* / RoF* - and leave myself at 98 Rage for the next round. (* - Double Hits). A Knight on my server, a level lower and with 2K Less PAtk than my MAtk, keeps pace with me using an EDD Lead-In and rage gaining double-attacks throughout - and he's also only using Vouchers and not reviving.

        Archers on the other hand are insane. They literally do 50% more damage output with the same amount of buff, simply because AP Double-Attacks and no WB Crit-Resist make it an Archer's paradise.

        If AP had a 6 sec CD so it could only be every other round, or the WB had an innate 50% Crit Resist, it would level the field for all classes.

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        • #19
          i saw that in arena an archer hits an archer 1st usualy.where is he it does nt matter(formation). and yes archer can strike back and middle .about bg kiling archer vs mage depends on many thing who will win.
          ARCHE wht is slow leveling?
          when u hope that u and u tank will be same lv.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by MaccteN001 View Post
            Only in BG starting level 50. Archers easily own mages in bg level 49 below and owns everyone in bg level 39 below. And again, it is only in BG and NOT in ARENA. Arena is different, like if you face 3 mages and you have like 2-3 archers in your team, you will definitely hit mages directly, so squishy squishy. Also, I observed a lot of times archers hitting mages in the back when a knight/an archer are tanking them in front, and I am not talking about the lunatic skill.
            Did you know that the first person who earned the Grim Reaper (10k kills in BG) title is a mage? And he was lvl 39 when he earned that title. A properly built mages with skillful player always own anyone else.

            And no, that mage was not a casher. you can see it here
            Originally posted by Wraithraiser
            Welcome to R2 forums. Where quality is nonexistent and quantity is only measured in the number of whines a single day can produce.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by arlad View Post
              did you know that the first person who earned the grim reaper (10k kills in bg) title is a mage? And he was lvl 39 when he earned that title. A properly built mages with skillful player always own anyone else.

              And no, that mage was not a casher. You can see it here
              no i dont know that. But i say depend on many things
              ARCHE wht is slow leveling?
              when u hope that u and u tank will be same lv.

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              • #22
                they should just eliminate criticals hits for all clases in WB, or have all hits become critical, for all classes.

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                • #23
                  This suggestion doenst really make sense. If you want my suggestion for how to make WB more fair, I would say either have 3 WB's with less HP( at the same time)(this means there are still 3 WB times per day, just 3 seperate WB for each time). And basically there would be a knight, mage, and archer WB. My other suggestion would be the same thing except by BR, like 1-50k on one WB(lowest HP) , 50k-80k on another WB(2nd lowest HP) and 80k+ on most hp boss. just my 2 cents

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                  • #24
                    Or, just make 3 bosses with different stats?

                    1 as it is now.
                    1 with crit immunity
                    1 with high pdef?

                    but then mages would get the upper hand in 2 bosses I guess? Maybe have one that takes away 5 rage per attack? really, if they wanted all classes to have the same chance to get ton of gold and daru, they would have fixed it by now xD

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                    • #25
                      I tried this on my server...same level archer with vouchers only vs a same level knight with vouchers only....I used balans on my knight for revive and he did not. I could compete with him at that point as we were both in the top ten (he was higher), I just had to work at it harder at it. I'm not looking for any advantage over the other two classes in BG's etc as I would expect to hear crying and whining. I'm just pointing out that the archers and to a lesser extent mages have an unfair advantage over the knight in the quest for gold and daru doing a WB. I thought of the idea of separate bosses, 1 for each class, but would expect that to be a code writing nightmare for the programmers, not to mention the server lag that would follow. That's why I thought of the shortened revive timers for the knights. The skill timer idea has merit, but then again, that would change the dynamics of the game in the BG's arena, etc.

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                      • #26
                        knights can delay the boss's fatal attack by removing the rage right before the boss launches it. (is this true?) so that compensates their 'lower' attack.
                        S292 Archer level 46
                        35k BR (with blessing wheel)
                        August 23, 2013 - November 3, 2013 (R.I.P)

                        S479 Knight Level 80
                        283k BR (blessed), 40k from sylph (02-28-15)
                        May 23, 2014 - March 16, 2015 (will return later on)

                        Proud non-casher non-VIP

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Yuri54 View Post
                          I have been thinking about this for some time and the only way I can see to make things fair for the poor knight is to get rid of the revive timer for them and maybe make mages timer half of what it is now and keep the archers right where they are. I know there will always be the people with archers/mages that are going to cry, but when you consider that archers and mages to a lesser extent, gain more gold than knights (unless a knight is on balans) they can top out their guild training and astrals way faster than a knight can, its the only way I can see without trying to boost the knight or cut down the archers/mages.
                          theoretically, a knight should do more damage, to the wb, since knights are single target specialist, but archers rule because of the crit and the most amazing damage doing skill (in my opinion ) muilt-shot, it does 200% damage (crit + determination) for no net rage cost,, mages being AOE, they do less damage, try changing the current skills you use for WB, it is the main factor, also try to double hit, in our server, from the beginning knight and archers dominate,

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by CrazyDude9 View Post
                            knights can delay the boss's fatal attack by removing the rage right before the boss launches it. (is this true?) so that compensates their 'lower' attack.
                            , knights remove rage only from players, no pve matches, benefit from interceptor(rage removing skill) although it does a specific dmg, it becomes negligible when you lvl up, and the fatal blows kills all, doesnt matter what stats you have, its a game set, you die every 6 moves of boss, you cant change that. thats what designers claim. and i think as well
                            Last edited by R28881593; 10-10-2013, 06:36 AM.

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                            • #29
                              play a knight roll and an archer roll.... they are correct. an archer gets 50% more gold per round with the boss and dies faster than the night so gets more rounds. my fiance and i are the same level. I am knight he is archer. he gets 3 rounds for my 2. and hits for 80k+ from first round to my 60k and is over 100k per round by end of boss to my 90k

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                              • #30
                                this is a great idea... but chances of it hapenning.... Negative 5%

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