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IRIS Sylph Balance Issues - Critical Heals are Broken.

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  • _Ashira_
    replied
    Originally posted by Agni9 View Post
    Agreed. they gave all the mage skills to a sylph (blessed light, purification, restoration and aoe). I say at the very least give us a sylph with scatter. And by the way, you can get 50 iris for free, you have to buy an apollo, so, no, apollo shield does not balance things out.
    ...there is a sylph with scatter.

    Leave a comment:


  • Agni9
    replied
    Originally posted by Zorich View Post
    Hello All,

    As a Mage, I find the current use of Iris (by Archers in-particular) quite offensive. Their innate Critical Boost and baseline Critical Spec makes their use of Iris almost ludicrous. I have fought Archers that are healing themselves for 100,000+ HP with Critical Iris Heals. Some Knights, with their Innate Boost on Healing Received are self-Healing w/ Iris for over 120,000 HP. This is absolutely ludicrous! Not only has it made battling them about as close to a no-win as one can get, it's also completely removed the need for Mages in PvE. When 3 Archers w/ Iris Sylphs can do Lych Lair by themselves, something is wrong.

    Healing, for ANY class, should NOT be subject to Critical Hits - and if it IS to remain so, I would petition that Will Destroyer ALSO affect Healing. Critical Healing via Iris is forcing every Mage to change over to Critical Builds in hopes they can equal what an Archer does and get lucky with a Big Heal to stay in a fight longer. Unfortunately, Mages don't get the Critical Boost, so they can never really match them.

    So I'd like to request one or more of the 3 following things to balance this:
    • Remove Critical Hits from Healing Spells, OR
    • Allow Will Destroyer Astral(s) to affect Healing AND Add a Critical Enhancement Talent in place of Misfortune (who NO ONE uses) so that a Mage can gain innate Critical %. (Keeping both Will Destroyer and Critical Paths viable for Mages) OR
    • Update the Mage Skill Healing Empowerment from 4% / 8% (pointlessly low now) to 35% / 70%


    I feel one of these three are necessary because it used to be that Mages did the least damage, but at least we were the best healers. Now we do the least damage _and_ we're effectively the worst healers when confronted w/ an Archer or Knight w/ an Iris Sylph. It ain't right.
    Agreed. they gave all the mage skills to a sylph (blessed light, purification, restoration and aoe). I say at the very least give us a sylph with scatter. And by the way, you can get 50 iris for free, you have to buy an apollo, so, no, apollo shield does not balance things out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zorich
    replied
    Originally posted by Zeak42 View Post
    Mages may be able to also use iris. However, in a perfect balanced game, mages shouldnt have to have a healing pet to compete with other classes. They should be able to pick an attack pet to help make them more rounded like the other clases have been able to do with iris. This however is not the case because of how overwhelmingly strong the heals of iris are in other classes
    Exactly.

    Where both Knights and Archers get to use the Iris to supplement their abilities, the Mage needs to take it just to stay competitive.

    With 1 Pet, the Iris, a Knight / Archer gets Rage-Free Resto / BL / Delphic Hell Frenzy (MAtk) / Puri / Rain of Fire (MAtk).

    I still say that if a Pet comes out that has 390% AoE Delphic with Stun (PAtk) / Scatter / 185% Single Target with Slow (PAtk) / 200% Single Target with 1s CD (PAtk) / 250% Single Target with 30% Damage Reducer DeBuff (PAtk) - then you'd see Archers absolutely flipping their lid. Hell, loads of Archers lost it when the Mire Rune got announced.

    The problem is that the Iris itself is better than the Mage class. Free 35 Rage Better-Than-Resto Resto, Free 60 Rage BL, Free 100 Rage Delphic Hell Frenzy (The best player AoE in the game), Free Unlimited Puri (ours can only get rid of 3 Debuffs per target). And the Crit Rate in Pet form is VERY enhanced to begin with, add that to Archer's 20% Crit Rate and it's almost a given. Add the 20% Healing Buff Knights get and they're the best self-healers in the game.

    It's just broken all around.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zeak42
    replied
    Originally posted by dwmedia View Post
    Dont forget that Mage me IRIS has like 2 BL.

    BL Sunturion etc, if its not engouts just spawn sylph and use Rain Dance and other heling.

    The mage has got 2 more heling skills over thire base heling + damges.

    So you can not relly say archer me one BL make say 100k hp recovery what do not a mage me BL + Rain Dance togater? its easy over 100k. + other heling one them.

    You can not forget that mage also can use IRIS.
    Mages may be able to also use iris. However, in a perfect balanced game, mages shouldnt have to have a healing pet to compete with other classes. They should be able to pick an attack pet to help make them more rounded like the other clases have been able to do with iris. This however is not the case because of how overwhelmingly strong the heals of iris are in other classes

    Leave a comment:


  • dwmedia
    replied
    Dont forget that Mage me IRIS has like 2 BL.

    BL Sunturion etc, if its not engouts just spawn sylph and use Rain Dance and other heling.

    The mage has got 2 more heling skills over thire base heling + damges.

    So you can not relly say archer me one BL make say 100k hp recovery what do not a mage me BL + Rain Dance togater? its easy over 100k. + other heling one them.

    You can not forget that mage also can use IRIS.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zeak42
    replied
    I've read all the posts so far and one thing is becoming evident. Zorich by far has taken the time to do his research, and made a well thought out and logical arguement for something. This by far seems to be rare on these forums, but is a great relief. Would be nice to see more well thought out arguements, not that 7roads really will listen to anything on the forums.

    Leave a comment:


  • JkLoser87
    replied
    Yeah ruined PVP totaly. Now even dumb archers beat me xD

    And it ruin pve some too. Dungeons that's hard, isn't hard anymore. Even helped a guildy pass DT normal a few days ago, knight. Only reason we could do it was cause he got an iris so he could helped me healing some, WHICH, isn't bad really. But ruins the balance.

    So I hope 7roads starts compensating soon, increase stats of each dungeon with like 5% with each "buffing" patch they release.

    Leave a comment:


  • slikec
    replied
    Lets face it pets in general are ruining game PvP and are great for PvE!

    Leave a comment:


  • Zorich
    replied
    Originally posted by xnovaflarex View Post
    I agree sylphs through a huge monkey wrench in to the work. Changed up every thing and for the better imo. Previous equal br knights always lost to mages with out exception 90+ % of the time unless the mage hit the wrong skill. Now knights stand a decent chance against equal br mages. Now knights have a heal that can be used more than once or twice. In best case you might get 2x uses of heal rune even if you had 3 uses. Now you can get 2x heal rune plus say maybe 3 iris warm spring heals for total of 5 heals. Mages can still get tons more healing but knights have more hp. Theres more balance now then before. Mages are just to use to being abble to step away from their comp and let their base attack kill a knight. I know i know never really quite that bad but you get the idea.
    Equal BR Mages were _supposed_ to be able to beat Knights. Just like Knights beat Archers and Archers beat Mages. It's something called balance.

    Now an equal BR Mage is at the mercy of any Archer or Knight when they're touting an Iris. This is because they're using the Iris to clear all troops, heal up full and then come out and Delphic to end it. A smart Archer / Knight won't even use the Iris Delphic, but just sit in the Iris for as long as possible casting heals until 100% is reached. Mage healing requires Rage and isn't as effective as Pet healing from other classes due to passive class talents that affect the Awakened form.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zorich
    replied
    Originally posted by Stormsiren View Post
    As a mage I find having access to both Blessed light and Rain dance offensive, there nothing stopping you using sniper's edge and determination stop whining I use both.
    No, there's nothing stopping me from converting to a Critical build. However, there's no passive bonus for a Mage that make's an Archer's Crit so much more effective with Rain Dance. And, a Mage can't match the DPS of an equal BR Archer. And all Knights self-heal at a 20% passive bonus as well. So while a Mage can still heal more by using their Rage & Class Skills w/ the Iris - our Healing is still the least efficient of all classes and our DPS is the worst as well.

    And again, I don't get how this is whining. I've back up all my statements with relevant statistical examples, showing that the Mage is far out of balance right now.

    And again, this is right now. It might change as new pets come out. If the Lightning Pet is as offensive as ppl are saying, then we'll just have the Archers and Knights use Iris in MP and be the Healers while we get the Lightning Pet and take care of Slows and insane DPS. It'll be kinda silly though that everyone's best aspect of their character will be their Pet and not the class itself...

    Leave a comment:


  • xnovaflarex
    replied
    Originally posted by ArowenGR View Post
    Why the fuss?
    Archers/knights get BL and an extra aoe, mages get (unscatterable) apollo shield.

    Pve balance is the same (except that knights and archers can also help heal/puri).
    Pve is equally balanced. Pvp has gotten more interesting. Now there is no universally strong sylph, all have strengths and weaknesses.

    Aren't mages better suited to deal with iris and apollo cause of high MDEF? The 2 strongest (maybe) sylph are not very effective vs mages but destroy knights and archers.
    Mages also got an extra MATK delphic pvp skill that whips knights and archers but they are not happy. Why? Because they prefer Pan since it is better in class wars.

    Now is not about class and not about sylph.
    Each combination of class and skill has different strengths and weaknesses
    I agree sylphs through a huge monkey wrench in to the work. Changed up every thing and for the better imo. Previous equal br knights always lost to mages with out exception 90+ % of the time unless the mage hit the wrong skill. Now knights stand a decent chance against equal br mages. Now knights have a heal that can be used more than once or twice. In best case you might get 2x uses of heal rune even if you had 3 uses. Now you can get 2x heal rune plus say maybe 3 iris warm spring heals for total of 5 heals. Mages can still get tons more healing but knights have more hp. Theres more balance now then before. Mages are just to use to being abble to step away from their comp and let their base attack kill a knight. I know i know never really quite that bad but you get the idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stormsiren
    replied
    Originally posted by Zorich View Post
    Hello All,As a Mage, I find the current use of Iris (by Archers in-particular) quite offensive.
    As a mage I find having access to both Blessed light and Rain dance offensive, there nothing stopping you using sniper's edge and determination stop whining I use both.

    Leave a comment:


  • pjraven
    replied
    Took 9 months to get mage able to bl, now you can do it in 4 weeks with sylph, and lots of cash. I've lost interest in this game since 2.1 and sylphs were added. Mages are no longer needed in this game, as a matter of fact why bother building your character, when a 4 week old sylph can kill your character that took a year to build. This thread is pointless, does anyone think R2 is listening to its customers.....

    I've seen pet addons ruin other games, and it has done so here as well. Thanks R2 for the one year I did enjoy playing this game.

    Leave a comment:


  • R29296591
    replied
    Originally posted by Zorich View Post
    Yeah, at that rate it's not crazy. Don't know if you've run into an Archer yet with 6500+ Crit that goes Iris and 2/3 Heals are Crits for ludicrous amounts of HP. That really gets me. Although, the worst was a Knight that Crit-BL'd himself w/ the Iris for 120,000 HP when I had him maybe 5k HP from done. You just wanna throw up your hands at that point and scream, "what the ****."
    its quite an issue then lol

    Leave a comment:


  • Zorich
    replied
    Originally posted by R29296591 View Post
    i agree to what you say...i have 4k crit (85% chance approx.) i heal critical 1 time in 5 turns. Attacks are 7/10 th critical. i feel 1/5 chance being critical heal is quite fair.
    Yeah, at that rate it's not crazy. Don't know if you've run into an Archer yet with 6500+ Crit that goes Iris and 2/3 Heals are Crits for ludicrous amounts of HP. That really gets me. Although, the worst was a Knight that Crit-BL'd himself w/ the Iris for 120,000 HP when I had him maybe 5k HP from done. You just wanna throw up your hands at that point and scream, "what the ****."

    Leave a comment:

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