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IRIS Sylph Balance Issues - Critical Heals are Broken.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by AnataOFAkku View Post
    Easy to say...go for crit mage bulid
    For well crit bulid mage need 6k crit on 105-110k br, that mean walking with 12k pdef, now archer have higher mdef with full crit gems and a lot more crit ... But not archer is our problem. Our problem is we was knight counter class,now this disapier
    Never before patch change balance like now, archers kills mages,mages knights and knigts archers.
    And each class walk with counter adventage,now mages bigest healing adventage is out and in ga/gb/bg archers rlz with short fights and crazy crit iris healing + bt on troops against each class. Iris delph with crit against knights and un-awake + ds against mages.
    However...wut we can do, in future like in china archers and knights will be strongest and mages will complain
    So my advice for mages, enjoy your class till u can like me - future will be even worst
    archer have lot of mdef?

    I am an archer lvl 59. with 4k crit. and i hae to use critical gems for it. My friend mage with 3.6k critical (lvl 59) uses critical gems. other knight crit 2.8k does not use crit gems (lvl 58) we all have lvl 5 red astral and lvl 6 determination....so yes everyone expecting good crit has to use critical gems. and one extra slot for determination. one cannot have both. all three of us are hitting IC soon so another 600/700 crit from there


    considering BG:
    Either we kill in first 30 secs or die. Same for all ... subjected to some conditions.

    I am saying it at lvl 59. things might be different at higher levels.
    Last edited by R29296591; 12-08-2013, 11:25 PM.
    Sarcasm Intended

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by R29296591 View Post
      archer have lot of mdef?

      I am an archer lvl 59. with 4k crit. and i hae to use critical gems for it. My friend mage with 3.6k critical (lvl 59) uses critical gems. other knight crit 2.8k does not use crit gems (lvl 58) we all have lvl 5 red astral and lvl 6 determination....so yes everyone expecting good crit has to use critical gems. and one extra slot for determination. one cannot have both. all three of us are hitting IC soon so another 600/700 crit from there


      considering BG:
      Either we kill in first 30 secs or die. Same for all ... subjected to some conditions.

      I am saying it at lvl 59. things might be different at higher levels.
      Yeah.things will be much different
      If i turn into full crit i have 12.5k pdef, where similar br archer have with full crit 14k+ mdef...and ofc a lot more crit

      _________


      Crit Mage 80v
      ~135k Br


      _________


      Comment


      • #33
        Give us m-attack sylph that do 500% damage to single target and have -30% damage buff please
        And sylph that can scatter and df.
        Last edited by ball0n; 12-09-2013, 05:16 AM.
        Server: East Coast Server 300+
        Class: Mage
        Level: 70+
        Battle Rating: 90+k
        Honor: Lord Divine

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by SuperMimi View Post
          Anyway , i've notice that this issue is all about Will Destroyer Class Type To Critical Type Class? Try to analyze it dude, Mage using Iris Againts Crit Archer or Knight Using Iris. Who will heal alot and who will deal a great damage. Seek for your self. [/B][/I]
          I have. At 120K BR the best Crit I can get as a Mage is just short of 5,000. Archers of the same BR get 20% more with the same equipment. Knights have an innate 20% Buff to Self-Heals or any Heals that target them.

          So basically, Mages are operating at a 20% disadvantage compared to other classes. In Critical vs. Archers in terms of the Stat and in terms of Self-Targeted Healing in terms of Knights. This means, that even as a full-blown Crit Mage, they're still healing worse than other classes (due to the Iris) who all have much better DPS and bigger Delphics.

          That's the point I, and quite a few others, have been making.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by AnataOFAkku View Post
            Easy to say...go for crit mage bulid
            For well crit bulid mage need 6k crit on 105-110k br, that mean walking with 12k pdef, now archer have higher mdef with full crit gems and a lot more crit ... But not archer is our problem. Our problem is we was knight counter class,now this disapier
            Never before patch change balance like now, archers kills mages,mages knights and knigts archers.
            And each class walk with counter adventage,now mages bigest healing adventage is out and in ga/gb/bg archers rlz with short fights and crazy crit iris healing + bt on troops against each class. Iris delph with crit against knights and un-awake + ds against mages.
            However...wut we can do, in future like in china archers and knights will be strongest and mages will complain
            So my advice for mages, enjoy your class till u can like me - future will be even worst
            A 6K Crit isn't possible (at 110k) for a light to moderate cashing mage. With L70 Legendary Gear all refined to have Crit L5+, 8 L6 Crit Gems with L30 Soul Engraving, LD Medal and L7 Holy Sniper's Edge - a Mage still only achieves a Critical Stat of around 5250. Where is that additional +750 supposed to come from? Drop hundreds of $ on Gems Events? Drop additional hundreds on Soul Crystal Packs?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by R29296591 View Post
              from that point of view i agree whit you...but its a little extra to say to remove critical from heal.
              On an secondary issue. to heal with iris one needs 2 truns ie turn and heal + group heal cooldown is 50-60 secs. Thus mages are needed in Mpd, as before.
              Not to remove Critical altogether, but from healing... That, or let EWD affect Heals and give an option for a Mage to either 1. Boost Crit % (as an Archer) or 2. Boost Passive Healing Buff (to at least be better than the Knight's Passive Heal Buff %).

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by ball0n View Post
                Give us m-attack sylph that do 500% damage to single target and have -30% damage buff please
                And sylph that can scatter and df.
                Wait for the Lightning Sylph. It's not that crazy, but it makes Apollo look like a wuss. And it also Stuns & Slows.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Zorich View Post
                  It's funny that you seem to think that PvE is "Balanced." So many Archers were screaming and railing at the hint of the Mire Rune - "Oh, we're going to never get in PvE groups again! Archers are useless!" - yet it's just fine and balanced that an Archer or Knight can now Single Target Heal (via Iris), AoE Heal (via Iris) and Puri (via Iris), and that's just fine.

                  The hypocrisy amazes me.


                  Learn to read before getting that attitude kiddo.
                  Never said pve is balanced. I said will keep same balance.
                  That is knights being second choices in most mpds and having to beg for a team. Only one top and people bragged that knights are unimportant in pve.
                  What's your class? Archer? Mage?
                  You're the hypocrite, and rude, cause all the other things I wanna say to you will get me banned from thi forum.

                  Kiddo. Child. Baby.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Rain dance in Iris does have 60 sec cd.
                    If you awaken her again before cd is over, you'll see ot counting.

                    I am not sure about delphic however, that could only have the initial delay (10 secs)

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ArowenGR View Post
                      Learn to read before getting that attitude kiddo.
                      Never said pve is balanced. I said will keep same balance.
                      That is knights being second choices in most mpds and having to beg for a team. Only one top and people bragged that knights are unimportant in pve.
                      What's your class? Archer? Mage?
                      You're the hypocrite, and rude, cause all the other things I wanna say to you will get me banned from thi forum.

                      Kiddo. Child. Baby.
                      I'll quote you back to yourself:
                      Why the fuss?
                      Archers/knights get BL and an extra aoe, mages get (unscatterable) apollo shield.

                      Pve balance is the same (except that knights and archers can also help heal/puri).
                      Pve is equally balanced.
                      Firstly, you casually left off that Iris gives not only BL and 1 Extra AoE. It ALSO gives a 2nd AoE (w/ a built in Puri), Single-Target Heal (that's 10% better than Resto) AND Puri.

                      Does all that really not outweigh a 3-round Apollo? Now maybe if we, as Mage's, got exactly what we lacked as the Iris gives Archer / Knights, that'd be different.

                      What would you say to a Pet that gave AoE Enemy DeBuff, 100% 3-Round Slow Attack, a single-target 250% Damage Attack with a 35% Damage Debuff, a 250% AoE that Stuns and a Delphic that's 350% along with a 15% Crit Buff Passive and a 15% HP Gain?

                      Or how about a Pet that does a Rage Drain of 50, Has a 25% HP Bubble, Has 40% DR, Has a 165% AoE w/ Bleed and a 450% Delphic along with passives of 15% on Healing Received and 15% of HP Gain?

                      If either of these existed, the respective classes they mimic would be in an uproar. Why? Because they'd so perfectly mimic the uniqueness of those classes it would take away what it is they are. If I, as a Mage, could go into some Archer-like pet that lets me Slow, Debuff, Stun and Delphic as well as get the passive bonuses, wouldn't that be fairly silly? Well, that's what the Iris did. Just look:
                      • Warm Spring = Restoration w/ an extra +10% Healing. Same Cooldown. Spirit Well Passive adds DR to this.
                      • Rain Dance = Blessed Light. Same Cooldown.
                      • Tsunami = Rain of Fire w/ a free single-target Puri thrown in. Same Cooldown.
                      • Ice Armor = Purification w/o the limit of 3 Debuffs per Ally. Same Cooldown.
                      • Archeron Wave = Delphic Hell Thunder. Same Cooldown. Master of Water Passive adds Stun effect to this.
                      • Passive Ocean Mirror = Healing Boost from Healing Empowerment.


                      So tell me, what's left off that was signature Mage? Suntoria. 1 Skill. You got a better version of our single-target heal, AoE Heal, Purification, base AoE and Delphic AoE. FANtastic! That's what Mages are now in PvE. They're there for Sunto and maybe an initial Resto / BL before the Archers & Knights can start rotating Iris awakenings.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Mages do the same exact thing in arena. Just today i was in arena against 2 mages and a knight. What they do? First HS then non stop healing over and over again. So please don't give me that ** about how Iris is so OP. If mages do the same exact thing in arena. Non stop BL and heals. Then use there iris's to do there heals over and over again.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          It amazes me how many players in this game either don't know how to read or has a problem comprehending a well-structured argument.

                          The point of Zorich's post is either:
                          - reduce the chance of critical heal; or
                          - let EWD be effective on heal.
                          Officially retired from Wartune and Forums.
                          [No longer logging in]

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by 0xykotton View Post
                            Mages do the same exact thing in arena. Just today i was in arena against 2 mages and a knight. What they do? First HS then non stop healing over and over again. So please don't give me that ** about how Iris is so OP. If mages do the same exact thing in arena. Non stop BL and heals. Then use there iris's to do there heals over and over again.
                            Mages are SUPPOSED to do that! They're the only "Healer" class. We don't get the gaudy kill attacks Archers (Delphic Sniper 355% & +20% Critical) and Knights (EDD 430% & +30 Rage Regain) get. We don't even have something remotely comparable to the Knight's weak Delphic (365%)! We get good AoEs (RoF at 165% and Meteor at 167%) and Heals. Our best attack is 320% w/ a Slow Chance that's unreliable and doesn't work in PvP when it triggers. And it can't target a rank like AP or EDD does, so it's not reliable until only 1 target is left. The Mage class has always had the worst DPS, but they made up for it with the ability to Heal and keep their Troops up as barriers w/ Sunto & BL. It generally made us have the advantage vs. Knights, and left us on the short-end vs. Archers - which is balance.

                            Now, lets look at the Knights beyond the two best % Damage attacks... We don't get 20% HP Bubbles (The equiv of 30k healing on top-end Knights). We don't get a 30% Damage Reducer, or 4% Max HP Free Heals on every Block. Really watch what a Knight does in combat. Against a 115K Br Knight in my Guild, in a duel, between HP gained from Bubble and Blocks he effectively replenished 70K HP. Heal Rune did another 25K or so. Then he goes Iris and it's 80K+ Crit Heals all over the place, some in excess of 100K - all costing no Rage. He comes out of it, milking the heals as long as possible (80K+ every 15 Sec is hard to overcome, even at 50% boost) with a 100% Buffed EDD. Dead Mage. Period. Total Healing on the Knight's Part - in excess of 400k. This is greatly helped by the 20% innate buff they get on all healing targeting them, making them the best self-healers as an Iris in the game.

                            That much healing would cost a Mage well over 200 Rage - so he just can't do it and deal any reasonable damage to his target. And in case you didn't know, Mages regain rage slower than any other class.

                            And an Archer... Well, if I had a 35 Rage, Fast Cast, 200% Damage + Defense Debuff w/ a 1s CD and a 255% Attack that doled out a 30% Damage Debuff on my enemy, well, I wouldn't need much more than a Bloodthirsty Strike by way of healing - which incidentally, against troops of an equal-BR type opponent, restores as much as a Resto does. Archers pump out so much fast damage vs. equal BR Mages, that if the Mage doesn't Heal / Sunto, he won't make it to the awakening .

                            Now, Archers with their innate Critical % Boosts get Crit-Heals more often than anyone when they manifest Iris. As a Mage going Crit-Spec, I can't get within a 1000 Pts of the Critical of an Archer w/ the same BR as me. So again, when manifesting Iris, Archers make better group Healers than Mages do.

                            I don't want to take away healing from the Iris. It's good for other classes to spec that way if they want (who wouldn't?). But what I would like is a more balanced playing field in it's use and application.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by CondorHero View Post
                              It amazes me how many players in this game either don't know how to read or has a problem comprehending a well-structured argument.

                              The point of Zorich's post is either:
                              - reduce the chance of critical heal; or
                              - let EWD be effective on heal.
                              Thanks bro. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills sometimes .

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Zorich stop crying.

                                Us knights ALL THIS TIME were second choice in any party for mpd. Noone asked for a knight unless a nightmare high level mpd.
                                ESPECIALLY after the academy bless when an archer could pretty much tank. When a mages TEMPLAR HP went to infinity 70k+.
                                At that time knights were useless.
                                Now looks like the mages turn (even though 1 mage is better than an iris, but FINALLY 2 knights can coexist in high level mpd).
                                Get over it.

                                P.S. Learn syntax kiddo. How old are you, 8?

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