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IRIS Sylph Balance Issues - Critical Heals are Broken.

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  • #61
    Originally posted by xnovaflarex View Post
    I agree sylphs through a huge monkey wrench in to the work. Changed up every thing and for the better imo. Previous equal br knights always lost to mages with out exception 90+ % of the time unless the mage hit the wrong skill. Now knights stand a decent chance against equal br mages. Now knights have a heal that can be used more than once or twice. In best case you might get 2x uses of heal rune even if you had 3 uses. Now you can get 2x heal rune plus say maybe 3 iris warm spring heals for total of 5 heals. Mages can still get tons more healing but knights have more hp. Theres more balance now then before. Mages are just to use to being abble to step away from their comp and let their base attack kill a knight. I know i know never really quite that bad but you get the idea.
    Equal BR Mages were _supposed_ to be able to beat Knights. Just like Knights beat Archers and Archers beat Mages. It's something called balance.

    Now an equal BR Mage is at the mercy of any Archer or Knight when they're touting an Iris. This is because they're using the Iris to clear all troops, heal up full and then come out and Delphic to end it. A smart Archer / Knight won't even use the Iris Delphic, but just sit in the Iris for as long as possible casting heals until 100% is reached. Mage healing requires Rage and isn't as effective as Pet healing from other classes due to passive class talents that affect the Awakened form.

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    • #62
      Lets face it pets in general are ruining game PvP and are great for PvE!

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      • #63
        Yeah ruined PVP totaly. Now even dumb archers beat me xD

        And it ruin pve some too. Dungeons that's hard, isn't hard anymore. Even helped a guildy pass DT normal a few days ago, knight. Only reason we could do it was cause he got an iris so he could helped me healing some, WHICH, isn't bad really. But ruins the balance.

        So I hope 7roads starts compensating soon, increase stats of each dungeon with like 5% with each "buffing" patch they release.

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        • #64
          I've read all the posts so far and one thing is becoming evident. Zorich by far has taken the time to do his research, and made a well thought out and logical arguement for something. This by far seems to be rare on these forums, but is a great relief. Would be nice to see more well thought out arguements, not that 7roads really will listen to anything on the forums.

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          • #65
            Dont forget that Mage me IRIS has like 2 BL.

            BL Sunturion etc, if its not engouts just spawn sylph and use Rain Dance and other heling.

            The mage has got 2 more heling skills over thire base heling + damges.

            So you can not relly say archer me one BL make say 100k hp recovery what do not a mage me BL + Rain Dance togater? its easy over 100k. + other heling one them.

            You can not forget that mage also can use IRIS.
            Character - Taggen
            Server - S100 Goulpass Keep
            Class - Archer
            Battle Rating -2.4M BR
            Slyph - Orange Electro, Light, Dark
            Highest CW ranking - 26th

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            • #66
              Originally posted by dwmedia View Post
              Dont forget that Mage me IRIS has like 2 BL.

              BL Sunturion etc, if its not engouts just spawn sylph and use Rain Dance and other heling.

              The mage has got 2 more heling skills over thire base heling + damges.

              So you can not relly say archer me one BL make say 100k hp recovery what do not a mage me BL + Rain Dance togater? its easy over 100k. + other heling one them.

              You can not forget that mage also can use IRIS.
              Mages may be able to also use iris. However, in a perfect balanced game, mages shouldnt have to have a healing pet to compete with other classes. They should be able to pick an attack pet to help make them more rounded like the other clases have been able to do with iris. This however is not the case because of how overwhelmingly strong the heals of iris are in other classes

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Zeak42 View Post
                Mages may be able to also use iris. However, in a perfect balanced game, mages shouldnt have to have a healing pet to compete with other classes. They should be able to pick an attack pet to help make them more rounded like the other clases have been able to do with iris. This however is not the case because of how overwhelmingly strong the heals of iris are in other classes
                Exactly.

                Where both Knights and Archers get to use the Iris to supplement their abilities, the Mage needs to take it just to stay competitive.

                With 1 Pet, the Iris, a Knight / Archer gets Rage-Free Resto / BL / Delphic Hell Frenzy (MAtk) / Puri / Rain of Fire (MAtk).

                I still say that if a Pet comes out that has 390% AoE Delphic with Stun (PAtk) / Scatter / 185% Single Target with Slow (PAtk) / 200% Single Target with 1s CD (PAtk) / 250% Single Target with 30% Damage Reducer DeBuff (PAtk) - then you'd see Archers absolutely flipping their lid. Hell, loads of Archers lost it when the Mire Rune got announced.

                The problem is that the Iris itself is better than the Mage class. Free 35 Rage Better-Than-Resto Resto, Free 60 Rage BL, Free 100 Rage Delphic Hell Frenzy (The best player AoE in the game), Free Unlimited Puri (ours can only get rid of 3 Debuffs per target). And the Crit Rate in Pet form is VERY enhanced to begin with, add that to Archer's 20% Crit Rate and it's almost a given. Add the 20% Healing Buff Knights get and they're the best self-healers in the game.

                It's just broken all around.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Zorich View Post
                  Hello All,

                  As a Mage, I find the current use of Iris (by Archers in-particular) quite offensive. Their innate Critical Boost and baseline Critical Spec makes their use of Iris almost ludicrous. I have fought Archers that are healing themselves for 100,000+ HP with Critical Iris Heals. Some Knights, with their Innate Boost on Healing Received are self-Healing w/ Iris for over 120,000 HP. This is absolutely ludicrous! Not only has it made battling them about as close to a no-win as one can get, it's also completely removed the need for Mages in PvE. When 3 Archers w/ Iris Sylphs can do Lych Lair by themselves, something is wrong.

                  Healing, for ANY class, should NOT be subject to Critical Hits - and if it IS to remain so, I would petition that Will Destroyer ALSO affect Healing. Critical Healing via Iris is forcing every Mage to change over to Critical Builds in hopes they can equal what an Archer does and get lucky with a Big Heal to stay in a fight longer. Unfortunately, Mages don't get the Critical Boost, so they can never really match them.

                  So I'd like to request one or more of the 3 following things to balance this:
                  • Remove Critical Hits from Healing Spells, OR
                  • Allow Will Destroyer Astral(s) to affect Healing AND Add a Critical Enhancement Talent in place of Misfortune (who NO ONE uses) so that a Mage can gain innate Critical %. (Keeping both Will Destroyer and Critical Paths viable for Mages) OR
                  • Update the Mage Skill Healing Empowerment from 4% / 8% (pointlessly low now) to 35% / 70%


                  I feel one of these three are necessary because it used to be that Mages did the least damage, but at least we were the best healers. Now we do the least damage _and_ we're effectively the worst healers when confronted w/ an Archer or Knight w/ an Iris Sylph. It ain't right.
                  Agreed. they gave all the mage skills to a sylph (blessed light, purification, restoration and aoe). I say at the very least give us a sylph with scatter. And by the way, you can get 50 iris for free, you have to buy an apollo, so, no, apollo shield does not balance things out.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Agni9 View Post
                    Agreed. they gave all the mage skills to a sylph (blessed light, purification, restoration and aoe). I say at the very least give us a sylph with scatter. And by the way, you can get 50 iris for free, you have to buy an apollo, so, no, apollo shield does not balance things out.
                    ...there is a sylph with scatter.
                    Whiners gotta whine...

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by _Ashira_ View Post
                      ...there is a sylph with scatter.
                      If you mean Hades' Haunt... kinda doesn't count since I can't get a Hades for free, like, say an Iris.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Agni9 View Post
                        If you mean Hades' Haunt... kinda doesn't count since I can't get a Hades for free, like, say an Iris.
                        nobody said you had to get it for free

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Agni9 View Post
                          If you mean Hades' Haunt... kinda doesn't count since I can't get a Hades for free, like, say an Iris.
                          Well, so what sylph are you using? AQ? If so, you can't be surprised that knights/archers with Iris are hard to fight, as you are using a sylph that is weak against them, while they use a sylph that is good against all classes in general. If you want an easy life against physical classes, use Gaia. Who cares if they heal back to full life when Gaia's delphic hurts them for more HP than they have - can't heal back from death.
                          Whiners gotta whine...

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                          • #73
                            Good one, maybe that will bring some sense into their minds... I`d like to add, that now we have lot of so called "campers" which literally break common rules and logic for an average player(lvl 40-49 with 40-50k br, go figure), so all that class and sylph talk is just plain lazyness...You can build a strong char and be happy, but unfortunately not everyone has the patience to do so...Sad.

                            S383 Pearl Cliff, 44, Archer CryingStar 36k br, since December.

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                            • #74
                              with new troops coming, it would be more hard to kill troops for knights, and mages will be OP again,
                              S371/Zetsuen.
                              Honor: GDK
                              KNIGHT ☣

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                              • #75
                                New troop is still long2 way. by then, there should be a lot player with 200k +br
                                Server: East Coast Server 300+
                                Class: Mage
                                Level: 70+
                                Battle Rating: 90+k
                                Honor: Lord Divine

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