amethyst mining abuse

[Asceti]

And getting attacked by someone 20 levels above you with more than twice your br is fair gaming?

Yes. Get stronger and beat them, or you'll just have to deal with the "disaster" that is 15 / 30 lost amethyst.

[beckydont]

i have found the biggest prob with amethyst is the no restrictions on what lvls u can attack... when a lvl 70 and up can attack a low lvl then that is when the bullying starts... it should be like in the wilds at least a 10 lvl minimum heck even drop it to a 5 lvl minimum but open slather on babies is wrong they want new players to start playing but when they are getting beaten up by ones so much higher it tends to turn them away from the game... and if u dont have a cart and attack someone u dont get amethyst cause u dont have anywhere to put it and u will prob find it was people attacking to protect a lower lvl fellow guild member that is being constantly attacked because they are easy prey

[beckydont]

And getting attacked by someone 20 levels above you with more than twice your br is fair gaming?

exactly what i said in my post the no lvl restriction on who u can attack started a lot of the no cart attacks on players from fellow guild members trying to help each other... we understand wanting to get the max u can from it but do u really have to continually hit a person that is so much lower every day to do it cause that is what was happening to some of my lower lvl guild members... every day same person at least 10 - 15 lvls higher bullying them for amethyst and then cried when we started attacking them without carts to protect that baby so they could get their full amount...

[Chris419]

Yes. Get stronger and beat them, or you'll just have to deal with the "disaster" that is 15 / 30 lost amethyst.

Nearly impossible to get stronger than them. Only way that's happening is if they stop playing.

If the stronger players are getting attacked so many times that they can't turn in their carts in time, then they should just deal with the "disaster" of only getting 200 amethyst.

[PunkPetal]

exactly what i said in my post the no lvl restriction on who u can attack started a lot of the no cart attacks on players from fellow guild members trying to help each other... we understand wanting to get the max u can from it but do u really have to continually hit a person that is so much lower every day to do it cause that is what was happening to some of my lower lvl guild members... every day same person at least 10 - 15 lvls higher bullying them for amethyst and then cried when we started attacking them without carts to protect that baby so they could get their full amount...

But the lower levels can't expect to get a full cart...


I will use BG as example, because it is an old game feature we all understand and the analogy is good. if you enter a 65 BG with 100k+ BR you will prolly cap honour over 2 BGs, the player entering with 60k BR can't possibly expect to get max rewards over 2 BG, is unrealistic, is exactly same for amethyst. If you're a weak player at double reward time expect you will be robbed.

Even if you are fully robbed by several players you are still turning in carts with 60 xstal in, when that is doubled you will receive (at worst) 240 over 2 carts. This is still better than going in at any other time and only getting 200 for 2 full carts. But people are rarely fully robbed, I stand near the officer where you turn in your cart, and I hit these weaker players and I get 15 xstal, that means I was the only one to rob them. That means over 2 carts they have had 340 xstal.

How on earth can you say a player with under 70k BR isn't getting fair rewards because they are getting bullied when they are only losing 60 xstal and they are considerably weaker than the strongest players?

You could use many other analogies, but unless the high BR players on your server are rabid these lower level/lower BR players are getting a fair share imho.

Edit: and actually *ganging up* on these stronger players so they cant turn their cart in means they get 200 as you said, which then means the fully robbed level 40 gets 340, and you think this is right? ^^

Is a strange world where the weakest get the best prizes ^^

[Chris419]

But the lower levels can't expect to get a full cart...


I will use BG as example, because it is an old game feature we all understand and the analogy is good. if you enter a 65 BG with 100k+ BR you will prolly cap honour over 2 BGs, the player entering with 60k BR can't possibly expect to get max rewards over 2 BG, is unrealistic, is exactly same for amethyst. If you're a weak player at double reward time expect you will be robbed.

Even if you are fully robbed by several players you are still turning in carts with 60 xstal in, when that is doubled you will receive (at worst) 240 over 2 carts. This is still better than going in at any other time and only getting 200 for 2 full carts. But people are rarely fully robbed, I stand near the officer where you turn in your cart, and I hit these weaker players and I get 15 xstal, that means I was the only one to rob them. That means over 2 carts they have had 340 xstal.

How on earth can you say a player with under 70k BR isn't getting fair rewards because they are getting bullied when they are only losing 60 xstal and they are considerably weaker than the strongest players?

You could use many other analogies, but unless the high BR players on your server are rabid these lower level/lower BR players are getting a fair share imho.

A key difference between BG and mines is the level difference. I will never fight the top players on my server in the battlegrounds. Why am I now fighting the top players on my server in the mines?

For your analogy with the 60k br player... Imagine if somehow a level 65 player with 60k BR was placed in the 30-39 battlegrounds, would you still say that is fair?

[PunkPetal]

A key difference between BG and mines is the level difference. I will never fight the top players on my server in the battlegrounds. Why am I now fighting the top players on my server in the mines?

For your analogy with the 60k br player... Imagine if somehow a level 65 player with 60k BR was placed in the 30-39 battlegrounds, would you still say that is fair?

Believe me there are people at level 60 with 40k BRs and there are also ppl with 100k BRs

and when BG was first introduced (I was there) it wasn't divided by level, it was 40+

I got eaten alive every BG while trying to cart, it is the game mechanics, at no point did people gang up on anyone for killing people, because it was an accepted part of game...

Edit: I can see how a player could feel a bit miffed if same person robs one of their carts 4x in a row, but like I also said earlier, most high BR aren't rabid and it's just one attack and let them pass...

[Chris419]

Believe me there are people at level 60 with 40k BRs and there are also ppl with 100k BRs

and when BG was first introduced (I was there) it wasn't divided by level, it was 40+

I got eaten alive every BG while trying to cart, it is the game mechanics, at no point did people gang up on anyone for killing people, because it was an accepted part of game...

Edit: I can see how a player could feel a bit miffed if same person robs one of their carts 4x in a row, but like I also said earlier, most high BR aren't rabid and it's just one attack and let them pass...

I think you misunderstood me. The top players on my server aren't level 60 people with 100k BR, they're level 80 with 160k BR (or something like that). They have equipment that I can't use even if they magically appeared in my inventory.

The "attack them until the timer runs out" tactic is analogous to dryads. Dryads is also an accepted part of the game, so why can the tactic be as well?

[PunkPetal]

I think you misunderstood me. The top players on my server aren't level 60 people with 100k BR, they're level 80 with 160k BR (or something like that). They have equipment that I can't use even if they magically appeared in my inventory.

The "attack them until the timer runs out" tactic is analogous to dryads. Dryads is also an accepted part of the game, so why can the tactic be as well?

The example I used was for my BG analogy, where levels are the same. But level is just a number BR is where the differences are.

There's a huge difference between attacking a player once to gain something, and spitefully attacking the same player multiple times just to prevent them gaining.

Even dryad farming is for gain, a player builds up dryads in order to achieve a kill or honor, so you can't use it as a comparison. One is tactical, the other makes no sense unless you are malicious.

[Chris419]

The example I used was for my BG analogy, where levels are the same. But level is just a number BR is where the differences are.

There's a huge difference between attacking a player once to gain something, and spitefully attacking the same player multiple times just to prevent them gaining.

Even dryad farming is for gain, a player builds up dryads in order to achieve a kill or honor, so you can't use it as a comparison. One is tactical, the other makes no sense unless you are malicious.

Levels affect how easy it is to get BR and also includes astrals, skills, talents, and gear. A level 60 player has little to no chance of stunning a level 80 player. I'm not even sure if a level 60 player can get 160k BR.

Preventing them from turning in a double cart works to discourage them from staying in the mines too long and attacking other players. If the players know that attacking other players means they'll have to turn in their cart after the double time, then fewer people will attack. Fewer people attacking means less chance of getting attacked. Getting attacked less means more amethyst. Sounds like a gain to me.

[FarrelBrown]

Levels affect how easy it is to get BR and also includes astrals, skills, talents, and gear. A level 60 player has little to no chance of stunning a level 80 player. I'm not even sure if a level 60 player can get 160k BR.

Preventing them from turning in a double cart works to discourage them from staying in the mines too long and attacking other players. If the players know that attacking other players means they'll have to turn in their cart after the double time, then fewer people will attack. Fewer people attacking means less chance of getting attacked. Getting attacked less means more amethyst. Sounds like a gain to me.

If the level 80 160k BR people on your server are attacking the same person over and over then I advocate attacking them in order to prevent them from BULLYING. This would mean one or two people attacking them at most once or twice to keep them busy while the "little fish" cart their amethyst. Griefing them every 20 seconds for 20 minutes so that they cannot turn in within the double timer is not only a gross overreaction but quite honestly an immature and childish way to go about things. If they are selective in their plundering (ex: I will plunder somebody once per cart, then move to another person. I will watch to ensure that I do not plunder somebody more than once per cart so ultimately I end up plundering each person no more than 2 times overall.) then leave them be as they are simply trying to gain what they can while minimizing their impact on others.

As far as the whole "Why don't they just bracket it like BGs" argument the biggest problem is you are thinning the "food chain" by giving the "big fish" fewer "little fish" to feed off of. This means their ability to be selective and spread around the plunders is greatly diminished. The 2 or 3 level 60-65 folks with overwhelming BRs will be forced to plunder the 5 or so others in their level bracket multiple times to get the same amount of amethyst they could by plundering the 10 or more that were available before. This, of course, would provoke more griefing attacks thus compounding the problem even more.

So the biggest question is do you have a problem with BULLIES or do you simply think that level 80, high BR characters shouldn't be allowed to gain maximum reward from Amethyst Mine? I can almost guarantee you that they won't bracket it. It's not worth doing unless they make it a Cross-Server event and/or make it only accessible at specific times to ensure the participation level is adequate to keep people interested. I can also tell you for sure that it will never turn into a "Everybody play nice and just cart the bare minimum" environment.

[Chris419]

If the level 80 160k BR people on your server are attacking the same person over and over then I advocate attacking them in order to prevent them from BULLYING. This would mean one or two people attacking them at most once or twice to keep them busy while the "little fish" cart their amethyst. Griefing them every 20 seconds for 20 minutes so that they cannot turn in within the double timer is not only a gross overreaction but quite honestly an immature and childish way to go about things. If they are selective in their plundering (ex: I will plunder somebody once per cart, then move to another person. I will watch to ensure that I do not plunder somebody more than once per cart so ultimately I end up plundering each person no more than 2 times overall.) then leave them be as they are simply trying to gain what they can while minimizing their impact on others.

As far as the whole "Why don't they just bracket it like BGs" argument the biggest problem is you are thinning the "food chain" by giving the "big fish" fewer "little fish" to feed off of. This means their ability to be selective and spread around the plunders is greatly diminished. The 2 or 3 level 60-65 folks with overwhelming BRs will be forced to plunder the 5 or so others in their level bracket multiple times to get the same amount of amethyst they could by plundering the 10 or more that were available before. This, of course, would provoke more griefing attacks thus compounding the problem even more.

So the biggest question is do you have a problem with BULLIES or do you simply think that level 80, high BR characters shouldn't be allowed to gain maximum reward from Amethyst Mine? I can almost guarantee you that they won't bracket it. It's not worth doing unless they make it a Cross-Server event and/or make it only accessible at specific times to ensure the participation level is adequate to keep people interested. I can also tell you for sure that it will never turn into a "Everybody play nice and just cart the bare minimum" environment.

A gross overreaction is subjective. Even in your case, you're causing someone to lose 60 amethyst per day from being attacked twice. With 2 others attacking (doing the same thing as you do), it could total to 160 amethyst lost per day. Causing one of the three attackers to lose 200 amethyst after they caused me to lose about 160 amethyst seems more like justice or karma.

As for the thinning of the food chain, there's plenty of "food". You can even make it so you can only attack within 10 levels (like plundering in wilds). Even at level 80, there are plenty of 75-80 players you can fight. More so with 70-80.

I have a problem with bullies who only fight absolutely guaranteed "I'll win in round 1" fights. There's a reason why they decided to bracket battlegrounds. I don't think I've seen anyone complain on forums and want to remove the brackets. There has been no problem with any high br 60-65 players from what I see since they're trying to avoid the 75-80 players. Even really strong 60-65 will probably lose to the weaker 80 players.

Finally for the "Everybody play nice and just cart the bare minimum", you never know until you try. I've seen some high br players declare they won't attack anyone in the mines anymore.

[B4nsh33]

This game runs on GREED. We can blame R2 all we want, but it boils down to our own selfish wants. There is no need to attack people in the amethyst mine to get your mount first, as we could all get our mounts at the same time (barring a few accidental misclicks, happens to us all). Just because you are bigger and badder than everybody else doesn't mean you need to prove it. 50 days at double amethyst time and everybody could have their mount. AFter that, then who cares? Plunder me at will, cuz I won't give a darn then. I say let people cart.... its not BG.

[FarrelBrown]

A gross overreaction is subjective. Even in your case, you're causing someone to lose 60 amethyst per day from being attacked twice. With 2 others attacking (doing the same thing as you do), it could total to 160 amethyst lost per day. Causing one of the three attackers to lose 200 amethyst after they caused me to lose about 160 amethyst seems more like justice or karma.

As for the thinning of the food chain, there's plenty of "food". You can even make it so you can only attack within 10 levels (like plundering in wilds). Even at level 80, there are plenty of 75-80 players you can fight. More so with 70-80.

I have a problem with bullies who only fight absolutely guaranteed "I'll win in round 1" fights. There's a reason why they decided to bracket battlegrounds. I don't think I've seen anyone complain on forums and want to remove the brackets. There has been no problem with any high br 60-65 players from what I see since they're trying to avoid the 75-80 players. Even really strong 60-65 will probably lose to the weaker 80 players.

Finally for the "Everybody play nice and just cart the bare minimum", you never know until you try. I've seen some high br players declare they won't attack anyone in the mines anymore.

See I would be much more accepting of your reasoning if you were suggesting a strategy to minimize Amethyst loss rather than advocating a malicious act of vengeance.
As for the "I'll win in round 1" fights... why would I, using a strategy to maximize my amethyst income, attack people that require a 1-2 minute long fight to defeat? Of course I'm going to attack people who I can easily defeat. If I want a challenge I'll wait for Class Wars.
As to the high BR folks on your server who have promised not to attack anyone I say that's their decision (unless of course they made that decision because a group of non-cart hauling toons spent 20-30 minutes keeping them locked down through attacks) and really doesn't concern me.

Now let me be clear. I don't get griefed in amethyst mine so this is not me whining about it. I will, on occasion, intercept somebody who is spam plundering people whether they be members of my guild or not but that is rarely necessary. The bottom line is that the type of griefing you are advocating is, in essence, saying "You will play this game the way I want you to play it......or else." which definitely sounds like a form of bullying to me.

Just think about it.

[PunkPetal]

If the level 80 160k BR people on your server are attacking the same person over and over then I advocate attacking them in order to prevent them from BULLYING. This would mean one or two people attacking them at most once or twice to keep them busy while the "little fish" cart their amethyst. Griefing them every 20 seconds for 20 minutes so that they cannot turn in within the double timer is not only a gross overreaction but quite honestly an immature and childish way to go about things. If they are selective in their plundering (ex: I will plunder somebody once per cart, then move to another person. I will watch to ensure that I do not plunder somebody more than once per cart so ultimately I end up plundering each person no more than 2 times overall.) then leave them be as they are simply trying to gain what they can while minimizing their impact on others.As far as the whole "Why don't they just bracket it like BGs" argument the biggest problem is you are thinning the "food chain" by giving the "big fish" fewer "little fish" to feed off of. This means their ability to be selective and spread around the plunders is greatly diminished. The 2 or 3 level 60-65 folks with overwhelming BRs will be forced to plunder the 5 or so others in their level bracket multiple times to get the same amount of amethyst they could by plundering the 10 or more that were available before. This, of course, would provoke more griefing attacks thus compounding the problem even more. So the biggest question is do you have a problem with BULLIES or do you simply think that level 80, high BR characters shouldn't be allowed to gain maximum reward from Amethyst Mine? I can almost guarantee you that they won't bracket it. It's not worth doing unless they make it a Cross-Server event and/or make it only accessible at specific times to ensure the participation level is adequate to keep people interested. I can also tell you for sure that it will never turn into a "Everybody play nice and just cart the bare minimum" environment.

Exactly this! I do exactly this, I don't target one player, but selectively snipe, and then move back and let people pass. I think nearly all the high BR do.

I honestly think it is about not allowing high BRs to gain maximum rewards, everyone with a high BR has worked hard to get it, and I don't see why the griefing players can't see that.All they do is create a level of animosity and make the same high BRs unwilling to help on MPs etc..

Causing one of the three attackers to lose 200 amethyst after they caused me to lose about 160 amethyst seems more like justice or karma.I have a problem with bullies who only fight absolutely guaranteed "I'll win in round 1" fights. There's a reason why they decided to bracket battlegrounds. I don't think I've seen anyone complain on forums and want to remove the brackets. There has been no problem with any high br 60-65 players from what I see since they're trying to avoid the 75-80 players. Even really strong 60-65 will probably lose to the weaker 80 players.

That is why most high BRs have started hitting smaller and smaller players, so we can be out of the mines before the no-cart brigade arrives

You can talk about the bracketing of BG as much as you like, but we spent over 6 months in that 40+ sharkpool and no-one reacted as childishly as this.

There was one particular lady on s1 that if I saw her in BG I would leave and try a different one or a different time, my point is that these are the game rules, and if attacking me with no cart gave you some gain eg. dryads then I would be irritated but accept it. But it gives you nothing, and just takes up my time.

You do that over and over and I'm wondering who is the bully?

The game mechanics mean you who prevent people turning in xstal are able to make them lose more than those who just attack for gain, and at the same time you're gaining nothing.Do it to enough of these high BR and watch your calls for help fall on deaf ears