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Question: Gaia vs Amazon Queen - why do ppl think Gaia is so great?

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  • Question: Gaia vs Amazon Queen - why do ppl think Gaia is so great?

    In forum and also in my server I see a fair number of ppl worshipping Gaia as the greatest thing ever, doing godly damage, and I just don't understand. When I look at the skills of Gaia and Amazon Queen they just don't seem that different, and I can't imagine they gave Gaia a lot higher stat points, so it must have to do with the skills...

    This is the comparison of skills from Gaia and Amazon and my personal opinion. Plz if you think I'm completely wrong about the usefulness of a skill then let me know. I started this thread because I wanna learn and understand. The numbers I gave are the order in the skills tab from the sylph menu:

    1 Burning Strike/Thundering Strike
    Both have the same attack 165%+120 to one enemy

    2 Consuming Flames/Roll of Thunder
    Amazon does an attack 100%+150 to one enemy: 64% damage reduction for 3 rounds
    Gaia does an attack 150% +100 to one enemy: +20% floating dmg for 2 rounds
    Gaia's attack does more dmg, but imo a dmg reduction would be a lot more useful than floating dmg in any situation aside from world boss.

    3 Infernal Inflammation/Jupiter's Wrath
    Amazon does an attack 220%+280 to one enemy: Target takes 10% more dmg for 3 rounds
    Gaia does an attack 225%+250 to one enemy: 80% chance to make a random skill not available for 2 turns.
    The dmg seems fairly equal, but I think in pve the Gaia added effect won't work, so all in all I think Amazon has better skill here, cause increased dmg is good in both pve and pvp.

    4 Dragon Blast/Short Circuit
    Amazon does an attack 160%+300 to 2-3 enemies
    Gaia does an attack 185%+200 to one enemy: enemies in same column and row take 50% dmg
    Considering that Gaia only hits one for full dmg, and sometimes only hits 1 enemy, I'd say Amazon's attack is a lot better.

    5 Firestorm/Flash Storm
    Amazon does an attack 145%+325 to all: Bleed for 2% max hp (4k hp max) for 5 rounds
    Gaia does an attack 240%+265 to one enemy: Prioritizes player and hits soldiers extra for 20k.
    I think both have really strong attacks. Amazon hits all and does nice bleed effect. Gaia's attack has higher dmg and can wreck in pvp, but in any circumstance without troops it's a single target skill. Personally I'd prefer Amazon's skill since it's useful in more situations.

    6 Delphic – Vulcan's Judgment/Delphic – Thunder Wave
    Amazon does an attack 440%+515 to 1-2 enemies – costs 500 awakening points
    Gaia does an attack 470%+515 to 1 enemy – costs 500 awakening points
    Gaia has higher atk, but Amazon can randomly hit a 2nd enemy. In some instances (boss battles, single player PVP after killing troops) there is only one enemy to target, but in other situations (sylph arena, team arena, guild battle) there will be more. All in all I htink these attacks are fairly equal.

    7 Vulcan's Blessing/Jupiter's Blessing
    Amazon increases damage (yourself) by 20% for 3 turns – costs 500 awakening points
    Gaia increases crit rate and crit damage (yourself) for 3 turns – costs 500 awakening points
    Personally I'm a knight, and have will destroyer when not doing world boss. So for me Gaia's skill wouldn't be useful. Btw even if I used crit I probably wouldn't spend a turn and 500 awakening points on the boost for either of the two.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Passives

    8 Scorching Shield/Unstable Voltage
    Amazon has 10% chance to absorb 3% of max hp in the next round.
    Gaia has stackable 5% dmg increase for 2 turns every time you are attacked (max 50% dmg)
    Amazon's passive is not so good imo. Assuming you have 75k hp (that's roughly what I have) then you have 10% to absorb 2250 dmg. So on average 225 dmg a turn. Gaia's skill is a lot cooler, but assuming you get hit once every round that's an avg of 10%.I'm not certain if a skill that hits multiple time (like knight delphi hitting 4x) give multiple stacks. On forums ppl seem really really into this skill, and I can see why. You basically get dmg buff all the time as passive. Can anyone confirm if multiple hitting attacks give multiple stacks? Cause if they do then 50% is a lot easier reached. All in all this round is definetely for the Gaia.

    9 Fire's Might/Static Field
    Amazon has 5% chance to do 10% extra dmg next turn
    Gaia has chance to prevent an enemy's critical next turn
    At first glance I think both aren't that great. Amazon's has a 5% trigger rate, so on average that's 0.5% bonus dmg each turn (5% x 10%). Gaia's prevent crit has no trigger rate mentioned, but assumably low: 5% or 10%. Unless you're fighting an archer that needs crits for rage, this doesn't seem so hot.

    10 Master of Flames/Master of Thunder
    Amazon has 5% chance to reflect up to 20% damage.
    Gaia has 10% chance to deal +15% dmg next turn
    I'm usually not a fan of reflect, so that one won't get my engine running. 5% trigger rate is low, but I'm assuming it's 100% (up to 20k dmg), which is really good if it hits. So might be useful :P With Gaia's passive it has small chance to do extra dmg, so on avg that's 1.5% each turn. Doesn't seem all that useful, but I suppose any passive dmg boost is a welcome addition.


    Basically in terms of active skills I'd think Amazon Queen is better than Gaia. Gaia probably beats Amazon in passives due to Unstable Voltage. Did I completely misjudge some skills here, or is there some other dark secret about Gaia's power that I'm not seeing? I need a 3rd sylph for arena, and a atk passive sylph is good for WB too. Help me understand so I can pick the best option for me.

  • #2
    Players should read this... This is very very informative...

    Makes me say, "Oh my Lord, thank you for blessing me with a mind to rhyme and two hype feet.."

    The reason is that because we have been so much brainwashed here in these forums that lots of people are using Gaia, so it must be better...

    Anyways, for cashers, they could probably go for Gaia because they can buy the passive skill Unstable Voltage, but for non-cashers, they have to think over whether they would go for Amazon or Gaia...
    Last edited by Kingryan; 01-22-2014, 07:16 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Knights = Patk
      Archers = Patk

      that's 2/3 of classes, them going for a Patk sylph is relatively redundant when a matk sylph is better off for BG/CW/GA etc. Also with the whole boosted crit passives/skills it does make somewhat of a difference when it comes to WB.

      Comment


      • #4
        My main reason for which i chose electro is that its matk so it does better than fire agaisnt 2 classes, while fire is good against mages. You say you are a knight, guess who is winning between a knight with fire sylph and one with electro :P

        and can anyone answer his question about the unstable voltage?I am cruious

        Comment


        • #5
          I think Gaja would suit a mage well, but not so good for the other classes. mage has alot of AOEs so wont miss them having Gaja, but the depends on wether they are crit build or not. For archer i can see Gaja being a good choice, though the lack of AOE's would be off putting and I could see why people would go for Amazon Q.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Wraithraiser View Post
            Knights = Patk
            Archers = Patk

            that's 2/3 of classes, them going for a Patk sylph is relatively redundant when a matk sylph is better off for BG/CW/GA etc. Also with the whole boosted crit passives/skills it does make somewhat of a difference when it comes to WB.
            Reading Jacko's blog, the attack of sylph is added to your toon's attack when in awakened form, thus, even though you are an archer/knight, using fire sylph will mean you will do more patk damage, which will be devastating to mages...

            Basically, it is better in bg, if the most powerful player you see there is a mage, or when there are lots of powerful mages in bg... Otherwise, use electric sylph.

            As of the crit passive of electric, cashers would probably worship Gaia, but then the non-cashers can worship either Amazon or Gaia.

            And, reading the information above, Amazon Queen is better in GA than Gaia, in terms of active skills.

            Originally posted by Draggyy View Post
            My main reason for which i chose electro is that its matk so it does better than fire agaisnt 2 classes, while fire is good against mages. You say you are a knight, guess who is winning between a knight with fire sylph and one with electro :P
            Depends on who on your enemy is... Considering the plight of the non-cashers, if a knight faces a mage, then fire sylph would be better... If you're a casher, obviously, many will go for electric, since they can buy that passive Unstable Voltage..

            Comment


            • #7
              So Amazon is better then gaia?

              Comment


              • #8
                for all who think gaia's passive is op... it only stacks when you are hit(mutli-hitting attacks count as one) and are awakened. so in wb boosts damage by 25% for final attack(averaging around 15% boost in damage if awakened whole time) and in 1 v 1 pvp it wont get beyond a couple stacks.

                yes it can be a great talent but it is too easy to counter and only shine in a few very specific situations like wb(oh yeah got to tank that wb hope that doesnt mess up your timing)

                Comment


                • #9
                  nice thread...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kingryan View Post
                    Reading Jacko's blog, the attack of sylph is added to your toon's attack when in awakened form, thus, even though you are an archer/knight, using fire sylph will mean you will do more patk damage, which will be devastating to mages...

                    Basically, it is better in bg, if the most powerful player you see there is a mage, or when there are lots of powerful mages in bg... Otherwise, use electric sylph.

                    As of the crit passive of electric, cashers would probably worship Gaia, but then the non-cashers can worship either Amazon or Gaia.

                    And, reading the information above, Amazon Queen is better in GA than Gaia, in terms of active skills.



                    Depends on who on your enemy is... Considering the plight of the non-cashers, if a knight faces a mage, then fire sylph would be better... If you're a casher, obviously, many will go for electric, since they can buy that passive Unstable Voltage..
                    Bro the sylph's highest attack stat gets added to the player's highest attack stat...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Draggyy View Post
                      My main reason for which i chose electro is that its matk so it does better than fire agaisnt 2 classes, while fire is good against mages. You say you are a knight, guess who is winning between a knight with fire sylph and one with electro :P
                      Well I already have a nice Iris (with the uber heal skill purchased) for matk, which in a lot of situations is a knight’s best friend imo, and no pure dmg sylph could replace her. My intention with the new sylph is probably gonna be WB, sylph arena and in pve dungeons because sometimes it’s fun to have a different sylph, makes the game feel a bit less repetetive. But depending on what info gets shared I might change my mind about what the new sylphs could do for me..
                      Also part of my question is why everyone’s going banana’s over Gaia, and it can’t simply be because it’s matk… there are other matk sylphs out there. Good ones: Iris’ fantastic healing and Apollo’s high damage AoE… In fact I’d sooner think Amazone is special because it’s patk. The only other patk sylph (for now) is Pan, which imo doesn’t have impressive skills at all.

                      Originally posted by Kingryan View Post
                      As of the crit passive of electric, cashers would probably worship Gaia, but then the non-cashers can worship either Amazon or Gaia.
                      Aside from Jupiter’s Blessing I don’t see one move that increases crit (unless you wanna count the one which increases float dmg). I think most ppl aren’t gonna pay the 1045 balens cost for Jupiter’s Blessing and even those that aren't intimidated by it's balens cost might not want to spend a skillslot on it. Considering that's the only crit skill: Why should crit users pick this specifically for crit? I don’t get it.

                      Originally posted by MagicAslan View Post
                      So Amazon is better then gaia?
                      That’s what I’m trying to find out. By reading forum it’s obvious Gaia is the popular pick, also some ppl from my server say they do great dmg with her (with just the starting skills), so I was wondering what’s so special about her.
                      Amazone has equally nice skills imo (perhaps not due the Unstable Volt passive) and although I haven’t tested it, it’s safe to assume they’ll have similar stats (aside from physical/magical attack and defense switched), so either there is another factor that I’m completely overlooking or Gaia’s being very hyped up by the electric companies…

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        All Sylph can be good, depend of what you need, your style of play and your build. Try them, nothing else to say.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I only have gaia for world bosses. I'll still be using my iris everywhere else.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by triggerh View Post
                            In forum and also in my server I see a fair number of ppl worshipping Gaia as the greatest thing ever, doing godly damage, and I just don't understand. When I look at the skills of Gaia and Amazon Queen they just don't seem that different, and I can't imagine they gave Gaia a lot higher stat points, so it must have to do with the skills...

                            This is the comparison of skills from Gaia and Amazon and my personal opinion. Plz if you think I'm completely wrong about the usefulness of a skill then let me know. I started this thread because I wanna learn and understand. The numbers I gave are the order in the skills tab from the sylph menu:

                            1 Burning Strike/Thundering Strike
                            Both have the same attack 165%+120 to one enemy

                            2 Consuming Flames/Roll of Thunder
                            Amazon does an attack 100%+150 to one enemy: 64% damage reduction for 3 rounds
                            Gaia does an attack 150% +100 to one enemy: +20% floating dmg for 2 rounds
                            Gaia's attack does more dmg, but imo a dmg reduction would be a lot more useful than floating dmg in any situation aside from world boss.

                            3 Infernal Inflammation/Jupiter's Wrath
                            Amazon does an attack 220%+280 to one enemy: Target takes 10% more dmg for 3 rounds
                            Gaia does an attack 225%+250 to one enemy: 80% chance to make a random skill not available for 2 turns.
                            The dmg seems fairly equal, but I think in pve the Gaia added effect won't work, so all in all I think Amazon has better skill here, cause increased dmg is good in both pve and pvp.

                            4 Dragon Blast/Short Circuit
                            Amazon does an attack 160%+300 to 2-3 enemies
                            Gaia does an attack 185%+200 to one enemy: enemies in same column and row take 50% dmg
                            Considering that Gaia only hits one for full dmg, and sometimes only hits 1 enemy, I'd say Amazon's attack is a lot better.

                            5 Firestorm/Flash Storm
                            Amazon does an attack 145%+325 to all: Bleed for 2% max hp (4k hp max) for 5 rounds
                            Gaia does an attack 240%+265 to one enemy: Prioritizes player and hits soldiers extra for 20k.
                            I think both have really strong attacks. Amazon hits all and does nice bleed effect. Gaia's attack has higher dmg and can wreck in pvp, but in any circumstance without troops it's a single target skill. Personally I'd prefer Amazon's skill since it's useful in more situations.

                            6 Delphic – Vulcan's Judgment/Delphic – Thunder Wave
                            Amazon does an attack 440%+515 to 1-2 enemies – costs 500 awakening points
                            Gaia does an attack 470%+515 to 1 enemy – costs 500 awakening points
                            Gaia has higher atk, but Amazon can randomly hit a 2nd enemy. In some instances (boss battles, single player PVP after killing troops) there is only one enemy to target, but in other situations (sylph arena, team arena, guild battle) there will be more. All in all I htink these attacks are fairly equal.

                            7 Vulcan's Blessing/Jupiter's Blessing
                            Amazon increases damage (yourself) by 20% for 3 turns – costs 500 awakening points
                            Gaia increases crit rate and crit damage (yourself) for 3 turns – costs 500 awakening points
                            Personally I'm a knight, and have will destroyer when not doing world boss. So for me Gaia's skill wouldn't be useful. Btw even if I used crit I probably wouldn't spend a turn and 500 awakening points on the boost for either of the two.

                            – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
                            Passives

                            8 Scorching Shield/Unstable Voltage
                            Amazon has 10% chance to absorb 3% of max hp in the next round.
                            Gaia has stackable 5% dmg increase for 2 turns every time you are attacked (max 50% dmg)
                            Amazon's passive is not so good imo. Assuming you have 75k hp (that's roughly what I have) then you have 10% to absorb 2250 dmg. So on average 225 dmg a turn. Gaia's skill is a lot cooler, but assuming you get hit once every round that's an avg of 10%.I'm not certain if a skill that hits multiple time (like knight delphi hitting 4x) give multiple stacks. On forums ppl seem really really into this skill, and I can see why. You basically get dmg buff all the time as passive. Can anyone confirm if multiple hitting attacks give multiple stacks? Cause if they do then 50% is a lot easier reached. All in all this round is definetely for the Gaia.

                            9 Fire's Might/Static Field
                            Amazon has 5% chance to do 10% extra dmg next turn
                            Gaia has chance to prevent an enemy's critical next turn
                            At first glance I think both aren't that great. Amazon's has a 5% trigger rate, so on average that's 0.5% bonus dmg each turn (5% x 10%). Gaia's prevent crit has no trigger rate mentioned, but assumably low: 5% or 10%. Unless you're fighting an archer that needs crits for rage, this doesn't seem so hot.

                            10 Master of Flames/Master of Thunder
                            Amazon has 5% chance to reflect up to 20% damage.
                            Gaia has 10% chance to deal +15% dmg next turn
                            I'm usually not a fan of reflect, so that one won't get my engine running. 5% trigger rate is low, but I'm assuming it's 100% (up to 20k dmg), which is really good if it hits. So might be useful :P With Gaia's passive it has small chance to do extra dmg, so on avg that's 1.5% each turn. Doesn't seem all that useful, but I suppose any passive dmg boost is a welcome addition.


                            Basically in terms of active skills I'd think Amazon Queen is better than Gaia. Gaia probably beats Amazon in passives due to Unstable Voltage. Did I completely misjudge some skills here, or is there some other dark secret about Gaia's power that I'm not seeing? I need a 3rd sylph for arena, and a atk passive sylph is good for WB too. Help me understand so I can pick the best option for me.
                            You got some of that wrong..
                            2) Fire sylph's attack reduces 64% of damage's HP, it's the same effect as arrow poison i think which is the most worthless skill after reverse damage.
                            3) Gaia's attack works in PvE too, only sylph skills are not effected
                            4) If there's only one enemy in the column then he takes that extra 50%, which is a lot.
                            6) Yes amazon's skill is better but how often do you use the super skill, let alone a sylph's super?? not many times I would imagine, so picking up amazon just because it "might" hit a second player with it's super is not a good idea imo, we would have to look at how many times it triggers.
                            Ok so with that I will tell you why people think Gaia is a better investment..
                            1) First of all, both these sylphs are supposed to be damage dealers, Gaia's super when used with floating damage increase kills any knight or archer around your BR, it is a dream sylph in that you can be guaranteed a OHKO with it's super especially at the 50% timer. I have seen an arch OHKOing a very close BR knight, she did close to 120k damage with floating damage increase and 50%.
                            2) Gaia supports crit which is what all classes will eventually be.
                            3) Gaia does MATK damage so as a knight( it's also true for archers) you have to pick it just for the sake of coverage.
                            4) Gaia works like a charm in PvE. almost every event of PvE is single target only.
                            5) Amazon queen has aoe attack but it is weak, with a damaging sylph I would much rather have a OHKO with the super than hitting everyone with medium damage only to have mages heal it later on.
                            6) Gaia's evolution is the "only" sylph which deals both MATK and PATK, it is the most used sylph in CN version and it is only obtainable from a well grown gaia.
                            Gaia is a better investment for the future, right now it may seem that it's not that much better, but in future it will have a monstrous potential, I have seen that myself and would suggest anyone to pick up gaia. If you want to keep playing after 2 months then it's probably a better investement of your mahras and exp than amazon.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Gaia is a great Iris killer, also if you plan on not criting and having EWD attached instead you still do tremendous damage to other players. I found in my play style that Gaia and Iris work the best in their own situations, plus they are matk based. Gaia has Jupiter's wrath and Flash storm both of which prioritize players over troops, plus if you use flash storm and your brutality just right you can get rid of the opposing players troops. Leaving yourself a ton of high end single player damage dealing skills. Iris however is very useful for some pvp fights and even more for mpd, tok, and spire(unless you have high stats and are a crit build then electric comes in very handy with that delphic) runs. Just my opinion.
                              Death is only the Beginning :P

                              GrymReaper- 2.9 Mil BR

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