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Knight Build: how not to suck

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  • Knight Build: how not to suck

    Things I've learned through extensive experience of building a knight, and being competitive in all events, pvp/pve and wb.

    Rule 1: Crit Build is for cashers, at 60+ levels.

    Reason: is that crit gems/astrals take the place of defensive gems/astrals. To compensate for the loss of defense you must use balens to buy mounts, full defense in academy, sylph hp, fate stones, and vip to get the highest medallions for the crit boost.

    If you are not a casher, going with a will destroyer and block astral will give you much more benefit, than a crit and determination combo. You will not be alive long enough to survive. In pve you will be weak against long boss battles, in pvp you don't crit as much (especially against opponents higher level than you)

    World Boss: keep a crit and determination astral for world boss, and switch them out for will destroyer and any defense astral. Crit and determination give greater gold than will destroyer. Purple crit and determination are good enough till lvl 50, unless orange or red drop.

    Rule 2: For the most part, enhanced delphic destroyer is only for world boss.

    Reason: With the addition of sylphs, Apollo shield build or hybrid build is better pvp and pve. Your regular delphic attack should be enough. With sylph aoe knights do not need whirlwind as much. Therefore put the skill points that were in whirlwind, intercept and enhanced delphic and get the passive 7% defensive resistance instead. The pvp example of how this works is below.

    PVP: open stun then ultimate slash, rune then ultimate slash, apollo shield then ultimate slash, agoran shiled then ultimate slash, then sylph, and do two of the sylphs aoe attack, they will both be at the 50% timer, then drop sylph brute rune and delphic = dead or close to it. if they are not dead after this they are probably higher br and have cashed more than you, so you would have lost anyway.

    PVE: your job is to survive, 7% passive defense is much better than ehanced delphic.


    Rule 3: the block passive is for levels 50+

    Reason: block is a secondary defense not your primary. Build your primary first which is pdef/mdef and hp. Block doesn't proc as much in pvp vs higher lvl opponents and against bosses in dungeons. Knights who build block first with low hp and defense are flimsy.


    This is all I had time to write for now. This is my take, some may differ according to taste, but I've seen a pattern of people violating these principles and complaining that knights suck. Then people always say "you have to build a knight correctly" but never say how. Well there ya go, goodluck

  • #2
    Originally posted by brussbauss View Post
    PVP: open stun then ultimate slash, rune then ultimate slash, apollo shield then ultimate slash, agoran shiled then ultimate slash, then sylph, and do two of the sylphs aoe attack, they will both be at the 50% timer, then drop sylph brute rune and delphic = dead or close to it. if they are not dead after this they are probably higher br and have cashed more than you, so you would have lost anyway.
    not activate sylph asap? afaik, if u activate asap, only the 3rd sylph move will fall under 50%. if gaia user? can do jupiter, flash, jupiter > enemy should be dead? if not...drop sylph and ulti slash?. Troops wont die but they help unstable voltage passive.

    Comment


    • #3
      You didn't read what I wrote or are just trolling. The pvp chain was an example to show that the defensive skill tree with a sylph, is preferable to enhanced delphic with whirlwind. Your reply states that you use sylph gaia so it doesn't contradict what I'm saying. Furthermore, in BG you will not always be able to open sylph first turn (in arena duel you will never open sylph first turn), secondly in BG knights don't heal like mages, therefore defense build with shields will let you live longer with iris/apollo/gaia or whatever sylph you choose. Lastly, it's obvious to any knight player the reason for ultimate slash. It's to target the back row, where mages and archer like to hide. But again the point of the pvp chain was just an example of several chains I use according to the opponent, but the point was to show that whirlwind and enhanced delphic have are less useful now with sylph therefore it is not an optimal build.

      Comment


      • #4
        I disagree with most of it sorry. Crit build is for cashers if you plan on going crit at lvl 60+. However, at lvl 70+ you can be a low or even non casher if you build your gems to lvl 6. The only defenses you lose out are a bit of mdef/pdef/hp off gems. However, you can keep the astrals since you will have 7 slots instead of 6. I went crit and im a low to medium casher 5.5k crit atm. I do pretty well imo. I am a bit more squishy but still can hang in there for the most part. So crit build is doable if you learn to build your knight correct. I do agree that EWD is best to go though until you have all your gems at lvl 6 at least with a decent high soul engraving.

        Agree with you on wb. Crit build for WB is the way to go. Going crit will yeild the most amount of gold and daru for you. However, it can be a pain keep on switching gems and astrals around. EWD on WB is still nice if you are a lazy person that doesn't want to keep switching around.

        EDD only for wb and no WW for pvp? I don't agree with that. Sure sylphs are great to have and for the most part can end the battle quicky. However, I disagree that EDD or WW is not needed. WW is a great tool to have for early AOE especially if you have the puncture talent. For lower cds you can pull it off multiple times during a battle. EDD is also great to have after sylph form to use if you don't end the battle then. Regular Delph is viable option as well if you don't plan on reaching 100 rage right away but having no WW? No WW is definitly needed. Keep in mind not all knights use Iris. I think Iris is great early game but once you turn crit or even have a high EWD Gaia is best route to go with. Gaia still does a lot of dmg even non crit build.

        PVE: It all depends. On bosses yes you want to switch to defense route. So you can pull up apollo. At least until your party is strong enough not to need it anymore. Eventually you be able to have your defense tree with max EDD at lvl 78 anyway. So it all really depends. For lych nm you want to kill the last boss as fast as possible. Once you hit the point where no cds and unlimited rage. You won't need as much defense as the mage should be healing you non stop. More dps is needed for this boss once your party is strong enough to handle it to the midpoint of the battle.

        Block I agree it's a viable thing to have for a knight. If you build your toon correctly you can be a high crit and high block knight with decent defenses. I was able to get 4.5k block and 5.5k crit with decent defense. Build your hp as high as possible to tank more hits that way and get as many mounts as you can. You do just fine. For the most part you do need to cash a bit though. Non cashers it's doable but you need to be very patient when it comes to building your toon. You will need to slow level a lot and build your gems up. Low to medium cashers can do this a bit easier and be able to get decent crit and block at lvl 70 with out much of a problem. I disagree though for block being at lvl 50. Block is only worth it when you have high enough hp. That being said block astral and block refinements should be at the earliest lvl 60. If you are a hard casher going crit at lvl 60 then block route at 70 would be better for you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 0xykotton View Post
          EDD only for wb and no WW for pvp? I don't agree with that. Sure sylphs are great to have and for the most part can end the battle quicky. However, I disagree that EDD or WW is not needed. WW is a great tool to have for early AOE especially if you have the puncture talent. For lower cds you can pull it off multiple times during a battle. EDD is also great to have after sylph form to use if you don't end the battle then. Regular Delph is viable option as well if you don't plan on reaching 100 rage right away but having no WW? No WW is definitly needed. Keep in mind not all knights use Iris. I think Iris is great early game but once you turn crit or even have a high EWD Gaia is best route to go with. Gaia still does a lot of dmg even non crit build.
          Whirlwind sucks. I find it better to use both delphics.

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree that after lvl 70, crit build is a doable option, because we have more slots. Since the best slot for 70 is usually the hp astral which is kinda meh. But it does take longer to do without cash because you have to build up your gems. My rules are to be top 5 in the server throughout the game, with being a slight to moderate casher. (mega-casher do not need skill or build because they can just buy whatever they want),

            WB- don't be lazy lmao

            WW and EDD- WW is nice but it's a luxury. If you are reaching close to 80 you can get WW and the 7% passive and I can see switching it in due to opponents. I have, always been able to clear troops at the 50% timer with just apollo sylph aoe's, and I'm usually at close to full health. Reason is the 7% passive and apollo plus agoran shields, plus im not a crit build so I have high defense all around. But by popping shields, usually don't have 100 EDD, so i trade saving hp to doing a big blast in the end, which is why I do 2aoe a brute runed ED all at the timer. I've just found this to be very effective for me, in beating players that cash more than me.

            After lvl 70, the build opens up so there really isn't many build rules because all knights pretty much have access to all the same astrals/skills/gems and double trees. So I'm not saying this is the only build after lvl 70. These guildlines are very important in my opinon to pre-60 builds, where taking a wrong skill will leave your knight very unbalanced, and not be able to be among the first groups in your server to finish nightmare GoD and/or moonevil to gain access to legendary gear before other people. Hence, to be top of the server.

            Thank you for your well thought out response Oxykotton. I'm sure our discussion has been helpful to many knights reading this

            Comment


            • #7
              Maybe I'm the only non casher/balenor knight who tried doing a crit build at 50's (level 59, stayed there for almost a month) who didn't suck...

              It was a privilege for me, using crit in bgs (i worked my number of kills by 5k for a month), as well as in garena, even in CW, i didn't use WD, and still got 3000+ points, same as when I was still using WD.

              It really depends on how strong your toon is, as well as how you perceive the game.. Advices are for safe and sure guidance, but some people do would disobey general rules for the sake of risks, fun, and learning.

              What did I learn? Why did I switch to crit at 50's??? I just learned about the 10% damage rule, in which even though you have high defense, a player would still do a minimum damage... Which means, having a 16k pdef at that level (59 bg) not necessary at all.... When my pdef was lowered to 13k due to swapping crit gems, I am still surviving bg battles with 80% hp left after each battle... There are other powerful players that can defeat me, but they are just few... If it happened they are packed (3-4 of them in bg), i just leave.... Having crit have made battles easier in bg, as well as I have the fun of experiencing crit heals of Iris as early as I can.

              I do not really advise these for the general people, but I just want other non cashers to know that it is not crazy/insane/retard to go to crit before 60... I have done it, and was successful, and you could try it too... But if you see it is not working for you, then just swap right back to WD... You should try a lot of things.... Cause this is where learning comes, in which the fun comes...

              Right now, I'm 63, and still using a crit build... And I am doing well in Moon NM, as well as in bg, and in spire too... I don't want to go back to WD, but if something interesting about WD comes up, I might try doing WD again.

              Comment


              • #8
                u r right in many thing but ur way for to do WB is really bad xd, u need invest in a gaia sylph and buy the passive unstable voltage, of course for WB u need use critical built.

                this wokr with pve set: i open with slaher after i use AFK (i have on just EWD slasher ultimate slasher and delphic normal), for the second turn awakening points is full i star with brutality and i press space button for awakening same turn than rune, (of course knight need go in front for that passive unstable voltage works) for the normal i finish always with 85 of rage of thsi way where i can star the next turn with delphic normal , after just is repeat the way, a round like knight annother round like sylph mode

                PS: every one need find them own way for get more income of WB remember that not all have high lv clothe (me start just with 31 of rage)
                Last edited by XiasCris; 02-14-2014, 07:16 PM.
                Game : Wartune
                Name: Xias
                Server: Kabam 21 (merged with 18)
                Guild: Redemption
                Class: Knight
                BR: 120.493 with bless and my stronger sylph (lv 74)
                Casher: not ATM (some day xD )
                Sylph. blue iris 5 stars 19.150 BR
                Playing since 28/04/2013

                Comment


                • #9
                  Would be interesting to see the difference in damage out put between crit build and WD. 10 hits how many would crit?? compared to constant damage of WD?. Crit is a risk you take...WD is a sure thing. In one of the servers Im in, the top mage uses WD and is always number 1 in wb damage against crit builds. So I beg to differ .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JoeBallbags View Post
                    Whirlwind sucks. I find it better to use both delphics.
                    lmao are you kidding me? It's an amazing skill. Especially a high lvl puncture. You will have basically a spammable AOE. It does awesome dmg as well when you get high lvl with a good crit stat or high lvl ewd.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pickapath View Post
                      Would be interesting to see the difference in damage out put between crit build and WD. 10 hits how many would crit?? compared to constant damage of WD?. Crit is a risk you take...WD is a sure thing. In one of the servers Im in, the top mage uses WD and is always number 1 in wb damage against crit builds. So I beg to differ .
                      High crit stat means more hits off crit. My 5.5k crit stat it got pulled off a decent amount of crits. i use to think ewd was best route to go, but if you build your toon correctly and get a decent high crit stat 5k+ it is much more effective than ewd. Just need high crit though and decent hp+defenses. To pull it off really good though you need to cash a bit. Don't need to be a hard casher just need to put in some money for the gems and stuff.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pickapath View Post
                        Would be interesting to see the difference in damage out put between crit build and WD. 10 hits how many would crit?? compared to constant damage of WD?. Crit is a risk you take...WD is a sure thing. In one of the servers Im in, the top mage uses WD and is always number 1 in wb damage against crit builds. So I beg to differ .
                        In my experience, a level 9 determination would boost your crit damage by 90-110%... My ultislash no-crit damage is 22k in wb (first bar hp), and when it crits, it becomes around 40k-48k... My Gaia Delphic no crit is 60k (first bar hp), and when it crits, it is around 120k-140k.... If you have a decent crit stat, which is does not required to be very high in wb, then you'll really get a huge overall damage.

                        Compared to level 10 will destroyer, which boost all your damage by 50%, though it procs 100%, it is still little compared to level 10 determination in wb...

                        In my server too, the top 1 knight in wb uses WD, but he revives... I bet if he do not revive, I'll get his first place. (I'm second place always when he's online to do wb, and i'm not using any pots and scrolls)....

                        There was even one knight (with 28k patk, mine is just 23k patk) my damage percentage gap between me and him goes up to 15% after wb ends, decided to equip a level 8 determination, the gap was lessened to 2%!! He would sometimes go over me by 2%, but thanks to my high crit stat (and his low crit stat), I am still able to be over him after wb finishes.

                        Crit stat and determination should go together to get a huge overall damage in wb. Going crit is still the best when doing wb, unless your WD is higher level than crit and determination.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 0xykotton View Post
                          lmao are you kidding me? It's an amazing skill. Especially a high lvl puncture. You will have basically a spammable AOE. It does awesome dmg as well when you get high lvl with a good crit stat or high lvl ewd.
                          I'm not kidding its damage sucks and I don't need a spammable AoE

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JoeBallbags View Post
                            I'm not kidding its damage sucks and I don't need a spammable AoE
                            lols. You must have some crappy dmg then sorry. The dmg is really good if you have a high patk with high ewd. Much better with high crit rate. Spammable AOE means you can take out troops faster. Unless you one hit troops with ult slasher its best to use WW.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I use DD to take out 1 troop right at the start and the other troop is no trouble. I find it is a lot better than using WW.

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